shooting a 22 rimfire

[shadow mag]

can anyone tell me. i have my fac would i be aloud to take my son out and let him have a couple of shots with my rifle if i got the land owners permission. or is it a no no. whats the law. many thanks

[SSS]

Its a rather confusing one. My thoughts on it are, if you are the landowner or tennant, you can otherwise you can't.

My FLO told me NO-ONE but me could use my rifle, and I stick to that, honest I let my mate use my .22 rimfire, but only when I am present, and I am overlooking him.

I will get pulled up for saying that, but we have had it before and all hell broke loose... well, not quite but you get the point.

If you keep it quiet that you are doing it, whats the worst that can happen.

Good luck.

Sam

[Kent Militia]

This is strange and news to me. I went with a friend who is getting me into rifle shooting to Bisley and I had a go at his 22lr, his .223 AR-15 clone and his 357 winchester lever action with his presence there all the time. You're saying this is illegal?

[the running man]

Kent militia unless u were a member of the nra and or another home office approved club then u were breaking the law,if u are that's fine.as for the father son I think as long as ure son has written permisson in with the cops and ure giving him one to one instruction and he's never out of reach from u then u should be ok.at least its how avon and somerset are.it allowed my freind to use my .22 til his licence came through ,his written permission was in with the cops.many people just keep the permission slip on them but I think ure suppossed to give it to the cops who chek the land is suitable,keep a copy on u though I do!

[the running man]

Kent militia sorry I should have added that the nra do guest days in wich circumstance u could attend! I expect that's wen u went along!

[Paddy Galore!]

It's not illegal to let someone use your rifle as long as the land owner is aware. Otherwise, how would half of us got in to shooting in the first place.

just to make it perfectly clear, you must be within reach of him.(i also think there is an age restriction, not sure what tho')

[Ozzy Fudd]

as long as you are the occupier of the land its ok. problem is it doesnt specify what occupier is, way i see it im the occupier as i have shooting rights so not a problem

[the running man]

My force must operate diffrently to ure ultra lax force,how lucky u are to have such understanding law enforcement...in my force area u must have written landowner (who owns the shooting rights) permission and that land must then be checked for its suitibility for the calibre being used,the police must have this permission slip (of which u ought keep a copy really just incase the helicopter gets called out by some do gooder) regarless of if uve a f.a.c. Or not. Ure saying that if ure mate turned up with his .308 and used it on ure land and dosent have permission on it then its ok cas u do! And ure land is only passed for .243 that's ok too! Well good luck to you,I know if anyone in this neck of the woods got caught doin wat u are theyed be in prison....clown.

[Ozzy Fudd]

My force must operate diffrently to ure ultra lax force,how lucky u are to have such understanding law enforcement...in my force area u must have written landowner (who owns the shooting rights) permission and that land must then be checked for its suitibility for the calibre being used,the police must have this permission slip (of which u ought keep a copy really just incase the helicopter gets called out by some do gooder) regarless of if uve a f.a.c. Or not. Ure saying that if ure mate turned up with his .308 and used it on ure land and dosent have permission on it then its ok cas u do! And ure land is only passed for .243 that's ok too! Well good luck to you,I know if anyone in this neck of the woods got caught doin wat u are theyed be in prison....clown.

 

is that aimed at me? if so its a bit incoherent

 

were talking about me letting someone use MY gun on land I have permission on, look up the law, as i said it states the occupier of the land (me) can let someone else use the occupiers gun (mine).

 

as for the incoherent bit at the end most (if not all) FAC's in northern ireland are open, so we dont need the police to clear land (i dont anyway), its up to myself whether or not the land is safe to use that type of gun. and as for my friend turning up and using their own gun on one of my permissions, well thats entirely up to the farmer. most of them are happy with my judgment on people shooting as long as i'm there with them.

 

so how am i going to end up in prison?!

Edited April 29, 2010 by Ozzy Fudd

[the running man]

No, aimed at ignorance and anyone that thinks they can just do way they want and jepordise shooting for all.,I don't quite know how things are in northern ireland,ure lucky my force is very reluctant to issue open tickets,here anyone that shOots must have written permission from the shooting rights holder.ure law may varie after all ure a province and is it right u still have pistols? I'm not sure ,I've just called my fao and he's told me just becase I'm shooting there I can't give others permission to shoot too not on word of mouth from farmer jon the cops have to have the slip. So that's how it is here,the rest of u must have great firearms licensing depts !

[inthedark]

Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle.

[al4x]

running man you're close but not that close. There is no obligation to have written permission though most forces ask for it on application. With regard to letting someone use your rifle under supervision there is as said the clause that if you are the owner or occupier then you can do so. This is how it is possible to go stalking using an estate gun as it is lent to you by the owner of the estate or owner of the shooting rights. In practice if you have permission to shoot then you have to decide whether you are happy being the occupier and you won't get a sensible answer to this from anyone BASC or your FEO as no one has tested it and its not been to court AFAIK Personally I am happy to be the occupier and have let people shoot with mine under direct supervision and I know most people are the same.

[the running man]

Thanks al4x I was nearly there,I understand the corperate side of it,I guess my force have their own ideas! Its just that ocupier bit its certainly a grey area. I wouldent like to be the first test case Thanks. For the info.

Edited April 29, 2010 by the running man

[Ozzy Fudd]

No, aimed at ignorance and anyone that thinks they can just do way they want and jepordise shooting for all.,I don't quite know how things are in northern ireland,ure lucky my force is very reluctant to issue open tickets,here anyone that shOots must have written permission from the shooting rights holder.ure law may varie after all ure a province and is it right u still have pistols? I'm not sure ,I've just called my fao and he's told me just becase I'm shooting there I can't give others permission to shoot too not on word of mouth from farmer jon the cops have to have the slip. So that's how it is here,the rest of u must have great firearms licensing depts !

 

yep we still have pistols. the only time we need signed forms is for a renewal or if adding a new calibre onto your licence, apart from that its just adviseable to have the forms signed incase theres an argument with the farmer, etc. it does seem we get off lightly compared to the rest of the uk, but then again we dont have sgc's, only fac's, every gun has to be added by the cops (inc shotguns) which can take months - my first application took 9 months, and at the mo some people are waiting 6/7 months to get a gun added to their licence

 

running man you're close but not that close. There is no obligation to have written permission though most forces ask for it on application. With regard to letting someone use your rifle under supervision there is as said the clause that if you are the owner or occupier then you can do so. This is how it is possible to go stalking using an estate gun as it is lent to you by the owner of the estate or owner of the shooting rights. In practice if you have permission to shoot then you have to decide whether you are happy being the occupier and you won't get a sensible answer to this from anyone BASC or your FEO as no one has tested it and its not been to court AFAIK Personally I am happy to be the occupier and have let people shoot with mine under direct supervision and I know most people are the same.

 

Edited April 29, 2010 by Ozzy Fudd

[Paddy Galore!]

Kent militia unless u were a member of the nra and or another home office approved club then u were breaking the law,if u are that's fine.as for the father son I think as long as ure son has written permisson in with the cops and ure giving him one to one instruction and he's never out of reach from u then u should be ok.at least its how avon and somerset are.it allowed my freind to use my .22 til his licence came through ,his written permission was in with the cops.many people just keep the permission slip on them but I think ure suppossed to give it to the cops who chek the land is suitable,keep a copy on u though I do!

This may be the case with closed tickets, with an open ticket you can survey your own land, the police don't need to know before hand about the permisioned land, but it's defo best to take a signed permission slip with you. As for our local forces being lax, are you sure it's your local FLD that's to blame and not you? Maybe they don't trust you. Norfolk constabulary are quite sensible about who they give certificates to IMHO.

[the running man]

I don't need to take this abuse from u gram71 I've got loads of people dyin to abuse me! ....I've an open ticket,dsc 1 / 2 ,former pwi,current, nra rco ,club coach,and been at this for 20 years I sure hope theve not got it in for me! Just tellin u how my force is,but then wat have u got in norwich? Pretty rural round there,so ure force is gonna be relaxed a little cas no one in the cops wants to be posted to alan partridge country! Hardly a move up the carrer ladder.so I get where ure coming from....kinda.

Edited April 29, 2010 by the running man

[Paddy Galore!]

I don't need to take this abuse from u gram71 I've got loads of people dyin to abuse me! ....I've an open ticket,dsc 1 / 2 ,former pwi,current, nra rco ,club coach,and been at this for 20 years I sure hope theve not got it in for me! Just tellin u how my force is,but then wat have u got in norwich? Pretty rural round there,so ure force is gonna be relaxed a little cas no one in the cops wants to be posted to alan partridge country! Hardly a move up the carrer ladder.so I get where ure coming from....kinda.

if you've got all those letters after your name then surely you must know the law, or think you do as that's why you think the rest of us are ignorant.

Regardless, you've been told different by several people and finally you saw sense, it's a shame that you put your mouth in gear before your brain sometimes as i'm sure you must have some area of expertise that would be beneficial to everyone on here.

Don't take it to heart ok, just think before you post, and try not to call people ignorant, i don't want you to be labelled a troll.

[the running man]

From the conditions laid down by my force area I was right,force area policy changes ures rather more easy goin than mine evidently.take the first comment that guys flo told him his gun only to be used by him.so ide have to disagree with u there and ure little digs I've nothin to prove I make a good living through shooting.I will take on board ure advice on brain engagement b4 typing though! As u should have yesterday wen u had all ure comments removed about the election.so I'm not the only one! I only surf this to try and help outas for bein ignorant that wat aimed soley at u and ure comments! .nothin personal good shhotin.

Edited April 29, 2010 by the running man

[Paddy Galore!]

.I will take on board ure advice on brain engagement b4 typing though! As u should have yesterday wen u had all ure comments removed about the election.so I'm not the only one

my comments were removed because it was detracting from the original thread which was biased towards shooting rights and not general politics. In fairness i agreed with teal that my comments would be better posted in a more generalized subject. It's happening again here aswell.

I don't know why your local FLD seem to think they are a law unto themselves, there are clear guidelines as to the use of firearms, their job is only to make sure the likes of us adhere to them. If there are problems with your local department then surely some dialogue with BASC would help them to get their priorities straight.

regards,

gram.

[the running man]

Yes I get wat ure saying but we have to play the cards were given,many of the guys in frome (wilts) have no probs at all,a+s were great till bout 5 years ago then new peple came in,I'm told its had a high turnover of staff,my last variation a one for one took 7 weeks! I'm sure if I kicked up they'd come down on me or anyone else for that matter.so count ureself lucky!

[sixhills 69]

Hi I work for the cops and believe me we are treated worse than every one else well in my area Our FLD think they are a law until them selves and if we complain they go to our bosses i have never been in trouble with the police and due to being disabled and on medication they bypassed my GP and asked me to withdraw my app, called BASC they stepped in problem sorted Thanks BASC

(but i think it is different from force to force)

[Colster]

Yes I get wat ure saying but we have to play the cards were given,many of the guys in frome (wilts) have no probs at all,a+s were great till bout 5 years ago then new peple came in,I'm told its had a high turnover of staff,my last variation a one for one took 7 weeks! I'm sure if I kicked up they'd come down on me or anyone else for that matter.so count ureself lucky!

 

Please stop spelling like you're texting, this is a forum, we're not all 13 and most of us prefer to be able to read what you're saying rather than having to translate it first

 

No wat i meen?

[Kent Militia]

Section 16(1) of the 1988 Act enables a

person to borrow a rifle from the occupier

of private premises and to use it on those

premises in the presence of either the

occupier or their servant without holding a

firearm certificate in respect of that rifle.

 

Thank you, that explains it. I am member of UKPSA although not an NRA member...yet. My friend is careful I am sure that he wouldn't knowingly break the law as I asked him exactly this question when we were going since I don't want to be there using his gun and breaking the law.

[Ozzy Fudd]

I don't need to take this abuse from u gram71 I've got loads of people dyin to abuse me! ....I've an open ticket,dsc 1 / 2 ,former pwi,current, nra rco ,club coach,and been at this for 20 years I sure hope theve not got it in for me! Just tellin u how my force is,but then wat have u got in norwich? Pretty rural round there,so ure force is gonna be relaxed a little cas no one in the cops wants to be posted to alan partridge country! Hardly a move up the carrer ladder.so I get where ure coming from....kinda.

 

if youve an open ticket why are the cops checking out your land?!

[Paddy Galore!]

Since when was bristol the hub of the known universe? I know what "bristol" is slang for Norfolk police treat us like adults mate, they don't hand out open tickets to just anyone, we have to earn the right, thats about it really, if we get caught messing about then we're done for, banged to rights! Just like anywhere else in the country.