ernyha Posted October 16, 2002 Report Share Posted October 16, 2002 :thumbs: Are there any legal boffins use this forum as I have had an unanswered question for several years.My certificate is up for renewal in Dec,and once again when I send off my application form,one of the things I will have to include is my current certificate.This will leave me without a current cert. to be able to produce if asked by a police officer when out shooting.The gap last time between surrendering my current one and the effective start date of my new one was about 5 weeks,and as I understand the law,if unable to produce my cert. for whatever reason,the police can take my guns until I do.I have asked this question to "Sporting gun" and to the police themselves and as yet I have not had a precise answer. Your comments please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
berettaboy Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 I would think that even the police wouln't be so silly as to take away your guns because they have your certificate. There is a Lawyer who regularly writes in Sporting Gun. Maybe you could give him an email. I always carry a photocopy of my certificate with me when out shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdowns hunter Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Make sure that you send your ertificate by registered post or if the firearms office is close bye take it in yourself and get a receipt for it. Also take a photo copy prior to sending the certificate It is also a good idea to stock up with cartriges if you are not known by your local gunshop owner This should keep you covered until you get your certificate renewed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deako Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 When you hand over your old cert and renewal fee, you will recieve a reciept from the police, this WILL be accepted as your shotgun certificate for police purposes, but will usually prevent you from buying cartridges, as most gunshops don't like this. The police SHOULD issue everybody with a section 7 permit during this period of renewal, but it never seems to happen. The section 7 is free and would enable you to buy ammo during the renewal process. Hope this helps. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malc Posted October 17, 2002 Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 But.... depending on which Police Force you are dealing with you may receive varying standards of service. For instance it took 5 months for North Yorks Police to grant me a certificate. It took them just over 6 months for them to post my certificate to Thames Valley Police. It took TVP 4 days to carry out a security check at my home and issue me with a new certificate. In the interim period I requested a temporary certificate, as mentioned by Deako, North Yorks refused to issue one stating it would take them too long to process it. Now, I understand that this is not the fault of the individual firearms dept staff members but I wonder why such a difference in performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted October 17, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 17, 2002 Thanks for those interesting replies lads.First cartridges,no problem as my local shop keeps a record of our cert.Secondly I live in Coventry so West Midlands is my licencing police force and unlike some forces i have read about,they could not be more helpful and efficient with my dealings with them.Trouble is Coventry is part of West Midland purely for political reasons and a look at the map will see that we are very much in Warwickshire and so wjhen i am out pigeon shooting,I am always on Warwick police territory.The point being ,if they stop me (and they have in the past) and I cant show a valid cert. they cant just radio back to base to do an instant check on my records.As for showing them a photostat copy.this proves that I was issued with a cert on such and such a date,but does not prove that it hasnt been revoked since it was issued.Perhaps I am being too cynical,but having read over the years of shooters being jumped on by the law for nothing more than minor technicalities,I will be uneasy all the time while out with my gun during the time I can,t produce a valid cert. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyCM Posted October 29, 2002 Report Share Posted October 29, 2002 I have always retained my certificates, right up to expiry. The last scenario went like this, I moved house and had a visit to check out the new security arrangements, all kit was stored at another address (approved) but on arranging the visit the F.O. asked for the guns to be present, so that the serial numbers may be checked with the existing (old address) certificate. No problem there, so I picked up the guns. The visit was ok, and the serial number check took place, the F.O. then went to put my old certificate in his bag! To which I stated "I am shooting at the weekend, how will I buy cartridges?" He looked puzzled and stated that I probably wouldn't be able to, without a certificate - and promptly returned the old certificate. My view (which is based on common sense, rather than any legal position) is that you have paid for the term of the certificate (5 years), and not 4 years 11 months - so it is your property - hang on to it! I would never want to be deprived of shooting - or be out with the uneasy feeling mentioned earlier because of police admin - not for a single day. If the cert has expired, that would be a different matter entirely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
columbus Posted October 29, 2002 Report Share Posted October 29, 2002 My cert was up for renewal on august 15th.I still have not had my new cert, had a visit two weeks ago the F.O. checked my gun safe asked a few questions and told me that i would recieve my cert in due course. At no time did they ask for my old cert back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted October 30, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 How can you say that at no time did they ask for your old cert. back,when it clearly states that it is required with your application form? :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
columbus Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 I dont know if the criteria of your police is different to mine but i have held a cert 26 years now and I have never sent back my old cert with my renewal application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted October 30, 2002 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 :thumbs: Columbus,my apologies,I have just studied my renewal forms again and it is in fact the accompanying letter from West Mid. police that tells me to send my existing certificate along with the application form.Just proves once again that there is no consistancy of the application of the rules between police forces.. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted October 30, 2002 Report Share Posted October 30, 2002 Well i have just sent away my first application to the police station and the officer asked if it had to come here and what has to happen to it. It's in the hand's of the gods now and my career is depending on it...........Please pray for me, I have never been in any kind of trouble so im quite hopefull Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
columbus Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 EGNWT. Don't worry about it unless you have a record as long as your arm they have to issue you with a cert. Unless they can find a good reason ie.you are stark raving bonkers. Apart from that you will have your cert, how long it will take is anther matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 I hope it wont be too long cause i want it before i go to college cause that's a 12 hour drive away and i cant be popping back for intervews and stuff :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted October 31, 2002 Report Share Posted October 31, 2002 I think it really does depend on your local police force,i must say that down here they dont seem that bad (devon and cornwall)my application "interview"was delt with over the phone.But we shall see in feb when i apply for a firearms cert i suppose.I'm assuming that there isnt already a licence holder in the house EGNWT as i suppose if they had allready inspected the security arrangements all that they need from you is a quick chat to ask were do you shoot ect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 My father has a sgc and i will shoot with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 EGNWT,unless the land you plan to shoot over is owned by your father and he is with you and you are using his gun,you will be breaking the law,by shooting without a shotgun certificate.Shooting at an approved clay shoot is legal without a cert.The law seems to think that on your own in a field where usually the only person you could harm is your self is much more dangerous than shooting at a busy clayshoot where there is much more chance of an accident to a third party.Just another example of our weird gunlaws. :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 I relise this.........i just load for him :thumbs: So when i finaly get the certidicate i can finally shoot :( Clay pigeon shooting is far too expensive and too far away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 I would have thought that presuming your dad has had his security arrangements checked and as long as you intend to store your gun(s) in the same cabinate,there would be no need for a visit to your house.But then that might be a bit to sensable for our boys in blue :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 I thought the cop's had to talk to me and try and make sure that i have good reasons to have a certicate and to use them. the gun will stay where it is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 My understanding of it is(and i'm putting myself up to be shot down here) that the only reasion that the police need to make a visit is to check your security arrangements,the questions they ask (how many guns do you intend to have,where do you shoot etc)can be done over the phone and dont ned to be done face to face,tats what happened to me,the copper phoned me at work(my old boss was a keen rifle shooter and was my referee so there was no probs with this)asked the questions and bobs your uncle :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ernyha Posted November 1, 2002 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 You do NOT have to show good reason for wanting a shotgun certificate,just a reasonably good criminal record and no history of mental illness.Quite a sensible criteria but as it has been stated earlier many times,every policeforce seems to put their own interpretation on the law.Also not widely known,they have no power to enter your home to "check" your security arrangements unless you invite them to do so.The way they usually get round this,as in my case is to want to check the serial numbers on your guns,so you invite them in to see them and so take them to your place of storage.The rules are by and large pretty sensible and straightforward and in my own case when dealing with West Midlands police,have found them helpful,efficient and straightforward. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 1, 2002 Report Share Posted November 1, 2002 I mentioned in an earlier post on this subject, that I had no problems with the Kent Police on my shotgun certificate renewal. It seems to be "fashionable" for the shooting media and organisations, to make a big issue about licence applications and renewals, but if you read the magazine letter pages, there are more congratulatory letters than moaning ones. Treat people (that includes the Police) as you want them to treat you, thats my motto and its serves me well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dead-eye-dick Posted November 5, 2002 Report Share Posted November 5, 2002 I mentioned in an earlier post on this subject, Treat people as you want them to treat you, thats my motto and its serves me well. Cranfield.....Surly not.......What about the pesants..:thumbs: You treat them in the most alarming way... :evil: :evil: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted November 5, 2002 Report Share Posted November 5, 2002 Dead-eye, I,ve told you before, I SHOOT PHEASANTS not PEASANTS. :thumbs: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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