invector Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Engineer, I was talking about REAL rifles!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 as someone has allready said, the only safe gun is a broken one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 Broken or unloaded is best I also agree that the discipline of ensuring that your gun is always pointing in a direction that if it goes off it wont kill or damage the unintended. this is how I was taught. However, I would always have the saftey on. Safety catches are a secondary precausion that are worth using. I would never walk with the catch off on the field unless for a second if I am expecting the bird to flush, even them I dont always do it. WHY? Because I have seen shooters trip and or fall. So the catch gives a litter more backup from finger pull or rough cover pressing the trigger as you fall. A mate of mine some years ago stepped into a swamp hole right in front of me. He went in over the head. The only thing left out of the swamp was his right arm and a gun waving all over the place. I had to get him out. If the safety had been off? Well its anyones guess what could have happened but at the time I felt a little safer while I got it under control. I to have had a discharge when closing a gun and it scared the **** out of me. A mate with a 16g Damasgus barrel hammer gun did the same up the side of my van. Never really sure why. Was it human or gun error??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I`ve had two mates killed with shotguns. One was pulling a loaded hammer gun, barrels first, from the back of a van. The other was only 17, and was one side of a narrow hedge, when a pheasant flew through a gap and his mate shot at it and hit him in the chest. Friends said there was a load of coagulated blood, like liver, on the ground. The gun was a .410!! Another friend was shooting pigeons in Cambs when the farmer, who didn`t know he had turned up, and was rabbit shooting, saw a movement and shot at what he thought was a rabbit and peppered my friend. He still has pellets in his elbow and actually took one in his family jewels!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunganick Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I`ve had two mates killed with shotguns. One was pulling a loaded hammer gun, barrels first, from the back of a van. The other was only 17, and was one side of a narrow hedge, when a pheasant flew through a gap and his mate shot at it and hit him in the chest. Friends said there was a load of coagulated blood, like liver, on the ground. The gun was a .410!! Another friend was shooting pigeons in Cambs when the farmer, who didn`t know he had turned up, and was rabbit shooting, saw a movement and shot at what he thought was a rabbit and peppered my friend. He still has pellets in his elbow and actually took one in his family jewels!! i know a man who has a pellet or 2 in his face, he shot at a tree rat on a hard tree and the pellets bounced back and hit him in the face, one lodged just under his eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 (edited) My Lincoln 10bore has a non-auto safety. It sort of concetrates the mind. Gives me the sh1ts!!!!!! Edited January 8, 2006 by rjimmer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lurcherboy Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I would rather shoot with people who have auto safety than those who dont. Regardless of their experience, age etc. LB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilishdave Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I know whare you are coming from LB but I would sooner shoot with people who do not become complacent and never point their gun in an unsafe direction and never rely on a safety catch. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Posted January 8, 2006 Report Share Posted January 8, 2006 I have a factual story aswell and its amazing how easy it can happen. 4 Years ago, i was invited to go stalking with a mate and his freind from the states. We had a great morning, his mate got a nice fallow buck. We decided to have a rest and some lunch. All rifles were unloaded and made safe. We were half way threw out lunch when some 100 odd yds away a buck made an appereance, walking slowly towards us. It was the rut and bucks were every where. My mate told his mate to load the rifle and take the shot, this he did and got his buck. He reloaded. We all walked up to the buck and boy he was a good one. His was very excited and could not believe his luck, jumping up and down. As he jumped at one stage, he triped and fell, hitting the but of his 6.5 x 55 on the ground ( which wasnt hard by the way) and the rifle going off . Luckly, it was pointed at the sky. It took 10 miniutes to sink in what he actually did, he never returned after that. :*) His saftey was on and his rifle was a Sako. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tenbears10 Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I`ve had two mates killed with shotguns. One was pulling a loaded hammer gun, barrels first, from the back of a van. The other was only 17, and was one side of a narrow hedge, when a pheasant flew through a gap and his mate shot at it and hit him in the chest. Friends said there was a load of coagulated blood, like liver, on the ground. The gun was a .410!! Another friend was shooting pigeons in Cambs when the farmer, who didn`t know he had turned up, and was rabbit shooting, saw a movement and shot at what he thought was a rabbit and peppered my friend. He still has pellets in his elbow and actually took one in his family jewels!! Those are very sad stories invector but they wouldn't have been helped with a safety catch (maybe the loaded hammer gun but not the other 2). They meant to shoot but just didn't mean to hit what they did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Auto safety catches are a damn nuisance - how often do you see a novice at a clay shoot fail to fire because they've forgotten to push the catch forward. I've seen novices then turn around with the gun loaded and unbroken, pointing it at the feet / legs of whoever is supposed to be looking after them and say "What do I do know..??" In my opinion they're more trouble than they're worth, and are best altered to non auto, so you have to physically pull it to the on position yourself. Cat. If its easy to teach a Novice to put the safety catch ON, how is it difficult to teach them to push it OFF ? Cranners, I agree 100% for ***** sake the number one issue is safety, missing a clay or a bird because the safty is on is not going to kill someone! pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Lets get some perspective here! When most gun incidents happen they are called ACCIDENTS. A definition of and accident is something that happened that was unplanned and often as a result of human error. I am trained in Health & Safety for my work and have been in charge of high at-risk activities for many years in the outdoor pursuits field, all the policies and purcedures and risk assessments and maintainance protocols were to reduce "as far as is reasonalbly practible" human error. Like it or not everyone reading this has the potential to cause a serious accident with a gun. Yes experience and training play a key role in PREVENTION. Yes safety catches play a role in PREVENTION. Yes shooting with safe mate play a role in PREVENTION. Yes club rules play a role in PREVENTION. Yes gun cabinets play a role in PREVENTION. At the end on the day, all of the above are tools to reduce human error, my error, your error. Most of us if we are totally honest have had some incident that could have turned out different. I will speak for me, I have had them and I think I am the safest person around. My wife nick name for me is "Mr Health & Safety", accidents do happen and that is why they are called accidents, I have had accidents. I like to put things in place to reduce them if possible becauce Murphy's law does exist. We all have our preferences, we are all human and therefore subject to error. Let face it, how many reading this got their wives or partners pregnant without planning it??? "It was a wee accident" That moment of letting your gaurd down leaving years of extra work to put them through school instead of shooting, that is human error, I'm guilty :*) :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Engineer, I was talking about REAL rifles!! didnt mean to upset you invector, you asked i answered is all :*) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invector Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Engineer, You didn`t upset me. You answered, I clarified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted January 9, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 (edited) EVERY GUN IS A SAFE ONE, IT'S THE PERSON IN CHARGE WHO MAKES IT UNSAFE Edited January 9, 2006 by kip270 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pepe Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 I always use my safety catch but treat the gun as if it did not work. I much rather miss something because I forget the safety than put people or myself in danger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caragh Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Hi This is just from my opinion as a clay shooter. I personally do not see the need for a safety on a clay gun because the gun is only loaded when the shooter is on the firing point. As soon as said gun has finished the gun is left broken and empty then and only then should he/she turn around leave the cage etc. Therefore whilst the gun is loaded mounted etc it is pointing downrange at all times thus negating the need for a safety. regards steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 Therin lies the difference between a clay gun and a field gun Steve - I would agree that a safety catch is totally redundant on a dedicated clay gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted January 9, 2006 Report Share Posted January 9, 2006 We were in the beaters' wagon one day when we had to take a gun with us to the next drive. He got in with a closed gun, swinging it in all directions. When he got out, someone saw him open the gun and it had been loaded all the time. It was a gun that was used for shooting clays! He had won an Olympic medal for clay shooting in years gone by!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 I hear you rjimmer, at the range i shoot at one of the " top guns " an ex Canadian champion was telling his wife, a 2 time all american skeet shooter herself , to release the pins of the shotgun after taking it down, she proceeded to grab a loaded shell to hold over the pins as she let the hammers fall, only her absolute incompetance in doing this task prevented a major accident in the club house, " she actualy asked for help " which gave away the fact the shell was loaded needless to say the atmosphere in the clubhouse was a little frigid after that . Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Dog Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 EVERY GUN IS A SAFE ONE, IT'S THE PERSON IN CHARGE WHO MAKES IT UNSAFE kip270 I agree. I used to say a Motor bike never killed anyone, it the rider or another driver, basicially human error. I read somewhere in the rules or guidelines of shooting, cant remember where, "a gun is always loaded" not treat it as loaded but loaded. I didnt like that saying but I do understand what they meant by it. In a proper clay stand you may be right, safety catches are redundant. You only load in the stand and you keep the gun open the rest of the time; unless semiauto. I must confess semiautos make me nervous at clay shoots. The problem is: 1. If you use that gun in the field and some do, currently I do. 2. Even if you have a field gun if you have a habit on not using the safety at the range, then it is easy on an occation to forget to put it on in the field either walking around or in the hide. I know we all think we are better than that but like I already said, an accident is an accident, mostly due to human error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Speaking from an airgunners point of view I find it utterly irresponsable that Air Arms did not manufacture the earlier S410(k)'s with a safety catch. All air guns IMHO should come with auto safety catches. It is the only thing that spoils the gun for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axe Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 It depends on the auto-safety design, but some are dangerous. On amost of the Airifles I have seen with Auto-safety, once the the safety is off it cannot be re-applied. My other concern about auto-safety is that you may well learn to ignore putting the safety on. In my opinion, a very bad habbit. So if you switch to a rifle/gun without one, you could be in trouble. Personally I always check the safety of any rifle/gun I handle. I never assume the safety can be trusted and treat a loaded gun with the respect it deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 Hi, Snakebite, That's why I got the new AAS410k because I used to use my Dad's Webley Xocet and I could not stand not having the safety there. I like the current S410 safety because I can turn it off with little movement and sound unlike on some other guns. FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 10, 2006 Report Share Posted January 10, 2006 The safety should be a re-settable auto saftey design. Sod the extra expense, that should be the bare minimum. An air gun is usually bought by people who have had no experience in gun handling at all. Unfortuantly this should be taken into consideration and whilst you cannot compensate for the idiot factor, every help should be given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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