moveing on up

[welsh warrior]

ok so i got my fac about 3 weeks back ..got a lovely 22 and awating on a 17 hmr ...but as ever i find me self wanting a bigger cal... the 2 lands ive got to shoot on have passed up to a .243 and the other a .308 ... how long should i wait before i put in for 243 or 308 ..how would i go about doing that ( looking for a step by step thing here) i have been invited to shoots up in scotland as they thought i had big cal rifles ..but sadly have to say i dont to them... cant think of any toher questiong right now probs will later thanks all

[apache]

There's no reaon you can't put in for a variation now, but it might be in your favour if you put a few thousand rounds through the rimfires before moving up to a centrefire.

 

When you say up to Scotland - do you mean deer shooting? Some forces want you to have your DSC1 before they will grant you a 'deer rifle'.

 

I'd give it a little time and have a good thing what you want - when you put the variation in try to get everything you want in the next 5 years!

[welsh warrior]

already fired about 2000 rounds lol ... i not sure what shooting up in scotland but i was invited i should think so tho... also i thought when you star with a rifles you need some one with you and it should say on your ticket ,,but on mine i didnt have any other restriction other than what cal im allowed

[apache]

The 'mentor' conditions are relatively new and seem to be in favour by some forces and not others. Seems to depend where you are, which it shouldn't.

 

So you have an 'open' ticket?

[welsh warrior]

yer i was told by my rfd i have aopen ticket ..what does this mean

[apache]

With an 'open ticket' you decide where it is safe to shoot. With a 'closed' ticket a specific piece of land is specified. With 'semi open' the wording is similar to land deemed suitable by the Chief officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the Holder has Lawful Authority to Shoot. With a true 'open' ticket it will just say land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

It's a farce. there are unsafe shots on cleared land and vice versa. Most people would agree that if they trust you with a frifle they should trust you to point it in a safe direction!

[Dekers]

yer i was told by my rfd i have aopen ticket ..what does this mean

 

If this is a first grant you will be fortunate to have an Open FAC, can you check the wording?

 

With regard larger calibres there "SHOULD" be no reason to wait at all as has been mentioned, you could have asked on the first grant.

 

If you can show good reason they should grant it, problem is, as has also been said, they often like to see a bit of history and also like to throw in Mentoring, etc.

 

Different regions and different approaches....and as I have said many a time, is simply another reason why the Firearms laws need a major overhaul!

[kdubya]

If this is a first grant you will be fortunate to have an Open FAC, can you check the wording?

 

he must have the same feo as you? you were told wern't you? regardless of wording that your ticket was open?must be a regional thing

 

never mind another two posts should get you to 2000 in no time still waiting for your first input on pigeon shooting mind!

 

cheers KW

[Frenchieboy]

,,but on mine i didnt have any other restriction other than what cal im allowed

 

Your FAC should have the following wording (Or very similar wording) under "Conditions" which will decide on it being either an "Open" or Closed" FAC. (I have both as my FAC is "Open" for my 17HMR but it is "Closed" for my .222 - I have been told that as long as I keep a "Shooting Log" showing reasonable use without any "questionable incidents" for my .222 they will almost certainly make my FAC a Full Open Ticket for the beginning of the New Year!)

 

If it is an "Open" ticket it should have the wording under "Conditions": Shall be used for the shooting of vermin and ground game and for zeroing on ranges, or land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

If it is a "Closed" ticket it should have the wording under "Conditions: ............ shall be used for shooting ............. and for zeroing on ranges, or land deemed suitable by the Chief Officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

I hope this helps!

[scolopax]

Put in for what you want if you can justify having it.

 

I realise I may have been lucky but I got my first FAC three years ago, no previous experience with a .22rf and I applied for and got a .243, no conditions, but I could justify having one for deer and fox and had twenty years using shotguns.

[jamie g]

if i where you i would go out with your friends. and have a go with there cf rifles. before you apply for oone yourself.

 

just to give you a idea of the step up in caliber this will then look good when you tell the flo.

[Evil Elvis]

With 'semi open' the wording is similar to land deemed suitable by the Chief officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the Holder has Lawful Authority to Shoot.

 

Thats interesting, thats what mine says ......................

[kdubya]

With an 'open ticket' you decide where it is safe to shoot. With a 'closed' ticket a specific piece of land is specified. With 'semi open' the wording is similar to land deemed suitable by the Chief officer of Police for the area where the land is situated and over which the Holder has Lawful Authority to Shoot. With a true 'open' ticket it will just say land over which the holder has lawful authority to shoot.

 

It's a farce. there are unsafe shots on cleared land and vice versa. Most people would agree that if they trust you with a frifle they should trust you to point it in a safe direction!

 

 

no such thing as " semi open" its still a closed ticket it may not be land specific but its still not you that deems the land suitable.

keep on asking them to clear land and they will soon open your ticket up.

 

KW

[Graham M]

ok so i got my fac about 3 weeks back ..got a lovely 22 and awating on a 17 hmr ...but as ever i find me self wanting a bigger cal... the 2 lands ive got to shoot on have passed up to a .243 and the other a .308 ... how long should i wait before i put in for 243 or 308 ..how would i go about doing that ( looking for a step by step thing here) i have been invited to shoots up in scotland as they thought i had big cal rifles ..but sadly have to say i dont to them... cant think of any toher questiong right now probs will later thanks all

Just got your FAC. Got a .22rf and awaiting a .17Hmr.

And now you want a .308…………

 

 

I know this may sound patronising, and it’s not meant to be, but if a 19 year-old lad just passed his driving test, and got a little Fiesta, do you think his insurance company would give him insurance if he then wanted to buy a Ferrari.

 

 

My advice would be to get some miles under your belt with the rimfire’s and then see how your FEO feels about you getting a large calibre Centrefire.

 

A .308 is an enormously powerful rifle and will pass clean through someone’s car at 500yds, so it isn’t something that can be just taken out and shot without some sort of experience whether this be shooting with a friend or on a range.

 

I’m not decrying your field skills or the fact that you have been shooting for 15 years or so…….with air rifles. Cartridge rifles are a completely different ball-game and need to be treated with far greater respect.

 

I once had the misfortune to meet a lad on my shoot, who had just bought a .222 and was out with it after foxes. I don’t like shooting with other people on the shoot, especially if they are going out with a rifle and I don’t know them, but I thought it would be OK just to have a walk along with him.

 

Half way down the field he loaded a round and fired it into the air………not straight up, but at an angle…..

I was absolutely staggered and asked him what the hell he was playing at. He told me that he always cleaned his gun and had been told to put a fouling shot through it before shooting in order to condition the barrel ready for a shot.

I couldn’t believe it, and tried to explain to the lad that he had fired a high velocity round at an angle into the air…………….AND IT HAD TO COME DOWN SOMEWHERE.

 

He just looked at me with bewilderment and I had to explain that that bullet could come down and kill someone.

 

His face was suddenly transformed as he started to realise what he was doing, and that he had done this on at least a dozen occasions.

 

I’m certainly not suggesting that you would do this, but it does show that sometimes this “Mentoring” advice that is given CAN be beneficial if the person concerned has no experience of what is after all, a very powerful and potentially dangerous pastime.

G.M.

[welsh warrior]

Just got your FAC. Got a .22rf and awaiting a .17Hmr.

And now you want a .308…………

 

 

I know this may sound patronising, and it’s not meant to be, but if a 19 year-old lad just passed his driving test, and got a little Fiesta, do you think his insurance company would give him insurance if he then wanted to buy a Ferrari.

 

 

My advice would be to get some miles under your belt with the rimfire’s and then see how your FEO feels about you getting a large calibre Centrefire.

 

A .308 is an enormously powerful rifle and will pass clean through someone’s car at 500yds, so it isn’t something that can be just taken out and shot without some sort of experience whether this be shooting with a friend or on a range.

 

I’m not decrying your field skills or the fact that you have been shooting for 15 years or so…….with air rifles. Cartridge rifles are a completely different ball-game and need to be treated with far greater respect.

 

I once had the misfortune to meet a lad on my shoot, who had just bought a .222 and was out with it after foxes. I don’t like shooting with other people on the shoot, especially if they are going out with a rifle and I don’t know them, but I thought it would be OK just to have a walk along with him.

 

Half way down the field he loaded a round and fired it into the air………not straight up, but at an angle…..

I was absolutely staggered and asked him what the hell he was playing at. He told me that he always cleaned his gun and had been told to put a fouling shot through it before shooting in order to condition the barrel ready for a shot.

I couldn’t believe it, and tried to explain to the lad that he had fired a high velocity round at an angle into the air…………….AND IT HAD TO COME DOWN SOMEWHERE.

 

He just looked at me with bewilderment and I had to explain that that bullet could come down and kill someone.

 

His face was suddenly transformed as he started to realise what he was doing, and that he had done this on at least a dozen occasions.

 

I’m certainly not suggesting that you would do this, but it does show that sometimes this “Mentoring” advice that is given CAN be beneficial if the person concerned has no experience of what is after all, a very powerful and potentially dangerous pastime.

G.M.

 

 

 

yer i understand that a 308 is of course a bigger much more powerful round ive fired many before and used many types of large cal guns sometimes i get invited to shoot deer on a estate where there is large plantations .and if the deer get in they dont move them they just shoot them and the local council pays fro his ammo and fac .. and just becuase im 19 i dont think it makes me a unsafe person to have such a rifle i am seen as a young shooter but us spotsmen all think alike i bellive from safety of gun to hunting. the same safety goes from air rifle to a bigger cal..and i dont think i would want a 308 anyways im thinking more a 223 or a 243 cal.. but im not saying i know it all here lads lol just saying ive been taught the right way from the start.so i could put in for a 243 or a 223 now then? how do i go about doing that

[Dekers]

yer i understand that a 308 is of course a bigger much more powerful round ive fired many before and used many types of large cal guns sometimes i get invited to shoot deer on a estate where there is large plantations .and if the deer get in they dont move them they just shoot them and the local council pays fro his ammo and fac .. and just becuase im 19 i dont think it makes me a unsafe person to have such a rifle i am seen as a young shooter but us spotsmen all think alike i bellive from safety of gun to hunting. the same safety goes from air rifle to a bigger cal..and i dont think i would want a 308 anyways im thinking more a 223 or a 243 cal.. but im not saying i know it all here lads lol just saying ive been taught the right way from the start.so i could put in for a 243 or a 223 now then? how do i go about doing that

 

 

 

WW

 

Why don't you have a word with the guys you go out on the deer with already, get their feelings on the centrefires.

 

In round figures the .308 is 10-11 times the energy of a 17HMR, and 25-26 times the energy of a .22lr with subs!

 

[welsh warrior]

WW

 

Why don't you have a word with the guys you go out on the deer with already, get their feelings on the centrefires.

 

In round figures the .308 is 10-11 times the energy of a 17HMR, and 25-26 times the energy of a .22lr with subs!

 

 

 

i have mate lol we was talking for a long time over a cuppa about it ... so would a 243 cal be good for deer hunting and tell me if im worng but i dont think then i would feel the need for a bigger round for anything?

[Graham M]

i have mate lol we was talking for a long time over a cuppa about it ... so would a 243 cal be good for deer hunting and tell me if im worng but i dont think then i would feel the need for a bigger round for anything?

The .243 is a great calibre for deerstalking and will bring down most deer up to and including Reds…………in the hands of an EXPERIENCED stalker who knows where to place the shot.

In the hands of an inexperienced stalker it could prove to be under-gunned for some of the bigger deer (most certainly Sika).

Now we get into the realms of “What’s the best calibre”, so I’ll leave it at that, but I would prefer a .308 if I was going after Highland Reds, as a lot of them in some areas have hybridised with Sika and are very tough animals to put down.

The choice is yours.

G.M.

[groach1234]

Right Im 18 and got my FAC back in october 2009 fully open for .17hmr and .22lr. Back in june of this year i put in a variation for .223 and 6.5x55 and was granted both and both once more were open so don't let the age thing hold you back at all when it comes to asking for a bigger caliber. I would recommend getting some stalking and foxing experience in as i did waiting maybe about 6 months having put a few rounds through the guns and the ask for what you want. It will both give you greater experience (only strengthening your case) and allow you to make sure that you make the right choice of caliber.

 

George

[Graham M]

Ah, but you see you are in North Yorkshire and this lad is in Wales.

 

Would you like to guess what would happen if an 18 year old lad asked for a .308 in Avon & Somerset. :blink:

 

 

G.M.

[groach1234]

Ah, but you see you are in North Yorkshire and this lad is in Wales.

 

Would you like to guess what would happen if an 18 year old lad asked for a .308 in Avon & Somerset. :blink:

 

 

G.M.

 

His nice, friendly FEO would grant it to him open with no mentoring?

 

G

[Graham M]

His nice, friendly FEO would grant it to him open with no mentoring?

 

G

No young man, his FEO would demand he took a DSC1 first.:blink:

 

 

G.M.

[groach1234]

No young man, his FEO would demand he took a DSC1 first.

 

 

G.M.

 

Well thats why North Yorkshire is such a great place then I am taking my DSC1 out of choice in a week or so but it was not insisted upon.

 

G

[Colster]

...so i could put in for a 243 or a 223 now then? how do i go about doing that

 

Download the form you used to apply originally, fill it in (without references and photos) and send it to your FLO along with your licence (don't forget to stock up a bit on ammo) and a cheque for £26

 

Under guns in your possession put down what you already have, then under what you're applying for put down what you wish to add but don't forget to include here any empty slots you have on your existing FAC.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Colster