kyska Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Quite interesting, one deer shot at 250 metres with a .204. Click Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well the Deer looked like it went down cleanly? Quite a good video that! It just goes to show you don't need a cannon to down a Deer if the shot placement is right. I've heard several stories of Fallow being taken with a .223 - not something I'd ever agree with for legal reasons but it obviously is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 with ballistic tips its very possible you just get less room for error. That said accuracy with the lighter recoil calibers etc may make up for it, one things for sure I wouldn't want to be shot with either. Necking them like that is ok but not sure I'd want to be the one doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I've watched quite a few videos from these two guys and while I do not want to get involved in any arguments about suitable calibers I have to say that these two (Especially Ross) have shown some remarkable marksmanship in all of their videos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gobfish Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Well the Deer looked like it went down cleanly? Quite a good video that! It just goes to show you don't need a cannon to down a Deer if the shot placement is right. I've heard several stories of Fallow being taken with a .223 - not something I'd ever agree with for legal reasons but it obviously is possible. I run a .223 and wouldn't consider shooting deer with it, but I've always found it contradictory that whilst considered too light for deer shooting, if you take the kings shilling and run around in DPM you can shoot men with it!!!! bring back the .303 I say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I don't think it's a problem to show it on the forum RJ. It clearly states that the shooting is being done in NZ and any FAC holder should know what species they may shoot. In fact, most people have their legal quarry listed until they're deemed experienced enough to be given more freedom. If someone wants to go out with their .204 and shoot a Deer then that's their business. In any case if they can shoot accurately and hit the same spot the NZ guy did, the Deer will drop so it's not so much a welfare issue as a legal one. It's all down to the guy doing the deed if he gets caught and I can't imagine you'd get off lightly?! The number of times I've watched Deer through the scope of my .22 Hornet and .223 isn't worth mentioning, and every time I've pulled the trigger in my head! In reality though they're left to walk away because although I was completely confident of the outcome, I like having my FAC and there's no way on earth I'm going to lose it for the sake of shooting a Deer that I can return to again later with a legal firearm and do the deed correctly. On the other hand it is good to know that if a humane dispatch is needed, these calibres do have the power to do so at range if you have no other option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Its not up for us to police or judge others actions, I'm sure by watching the vid it won't encourage people to shoot deer illegally, but the vid shows that the .204 is capable, thats all. And I don't shoot fox with hmr as Leicestershire demand a centerfire for fox, full stop. And i for one don't disagree with them also same in Lancashire. Vermin and Fox are different things as far as home office guidence notes go anyway. As for the .204 i shouldn't choose one for deer even if it were legal though less powerfull chamberings used to be used regulary in the UK perfectly legally prior to the deer act. Richard Prior himself used to shoot Hornet on Roe. Reason i personally wouldn't is why when there are far better choices with a higher margin for error. NZ government cullers were also once issued .222 rifles for the massive Red stags as they were lighter to carry in, so consider that when we talk of .243" being inadequate for our by comparisom skinny little beasts. Most things hit in the right place will drop with a 55 grn pill in the right place, including polar bears - ask an inuit seal hunter As for vidio making UK shooters tempted, utter rot as many are taken by poachers with .22 rf here shooting them in the lamp behind the lug and how many of us are tempted to emulate that act of total stupidity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Can anyone tell me why deer are classed as vermin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 I usually find that the ones with an answer to everything ( usually wrong) are the ones with a high post count KW Great minds think alike :blink: The only difference here is the kdubya has been here a long time. His post count isn't huge but he's been here longer than I have and is a respected member of the forum! Can anyone tell me why deer are classed as vermin They're not as far as I'm aware? They're pests, but that's not the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 There are wiser men than me who will tell you that deer are vermin class and the law that applies to the same as for police forces demanding center fire for fox that is wrong they are makeing it up as they go. Home office guidlines are being miss used miss understood by various forces Some say they can use e mail to notify of sale or aquire yet the LAW firearms act sayes by registered post so your e mail meanes nothing in court they interprit the law as wrtten be careful you dont fall y into a trap read the LAW not what the police say is ok as when the metal meats the meat they will deny it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
digger Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Err, ok then. Not sure I understood that :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 Put plainly learn the firearms act, The police are putting there own slant on the wording not the actual meaning of the written word A court wont do that they only use the litteral word Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted August 31, 2010 Report Share Posted August 31, 2010 This whole thread is a massive joke. But its the reason I love this place. Keep up the good work chaps! :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justintime Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 (edited) Theres nothing funny about the firearms act only the chief constables that read it and interprit it in ther own twisted way HERES one to make you all think IT is your right to own a firearm for personel protection to defend your property from pest and all other threat Hear say evidence is admisable in uk courts. In firearm cases yet under your human rights its unlawfull In one of the cases i am working on this was used and accepted by a judge in a section 44 court revication hearing yet the person being revoked proved beyond any reasonable doubt his where abouts on the days in question Edited September 1, 2010 by Justintime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I think it was a great shot. Watching his videos though, he looks like he's a big fan of neck shots. Some at quite long ranges too? I'm not so sure about it when they're not so close especially when it's windy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I think it was a great shot. Watching his videos though, he looks like he's a big fan of neck shots. Some at quite long ranges too? I'm not so sure about it when they're not so close especially when it's windy. I guess the fundamental is if you are neck shooting them then a ballistic tip from a small centrefire may actually give you better results than a softpoing bigger caliber, its certainly going to do a lot of damage where it counts. Chest shots would be a definite no no but certainly would be likely to down most deer at sensible range. People get a bit overcome with the numbers game with deer shooting and the fundamentals are they aren't that big and most centrefires with a decent person behind the trigger would do the job its just not legal to use the smaller ones in the UK so legitimate shooters don't do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I'd say that's almost certain. I suppose a fragmenting varmint bullet would make a right mess of the spine even if the shot wasn't perfect. More so that a bullet designed to mushroom and pass through. I'm still not sure about this neck shooting business. I think probably because it's so grumbled about amongst the Deer stalker types? If I can hit a bunny in the head at 150 yards then I should be able to hit a Deers spine! It just feels a bit uncomfortable because it's not the recognised ideal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 absolutely, though even on the SD they do seem to agree if you do it a varmint bullet works best, maximum damage is what you want which as the video shows works well. Its not the more fail safe method but if the animal is calm and you're competent its pretty humane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 I think the best bit is that they seem to just fall over! I suppose smashing up the spine is the best way to cripple something so it's great for those times when a runner could cause problems. I think if I'm shooting in a field somewhere I will always stick to boiler room shots. If placed well they don't cause much damage to edible parts of the carcass. In someones garden on the other hand where a runner is a major issue with the neighbours then neck shooting is perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 The big issue with neck shots is recovery rates even with trained dogs are very poor indeed, many think its a clean kill or miss i have heard that said many times but the truth is far more grizzly jaws made unusable and the beast starves to death in pain or the same with a shot that damages the osophogus. I am not certain without rechecking the study done again but i think i remeber even front leg wounds had a better recovery rate then neck wounds. Thing is as most experianced stalkers know deer will try and fool you by head bobbing and the slightest disturbence can make them move thier head quickly and unexpectedly unfortunatly this can be just as you are squeezing through the trigger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted September 1, 2010 Report Share Posted September 1, 2010 many think its a clean kill or miss i have heard that said many times but the truth is far more grizzly jaws made unusable and the beast starves to death You must be talking about the top end of the neck or even head. Successful and instantly fatal neck shots I have witnessed have been the bottom end of the neck - they went down like the proverbial deck of cards. It's been said a million imes before, but the 'best' shot is right one for the particular situation you find yourself in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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