Price of 243 100grain heads

[Redgum]

It really is a bit of a lottery these days keeping a reputable dealer for ammunition and reloading components. I have a good RfD who uses Kranks, I find the part number on their site, he orders it and makes a little profit and we are all happy. Recently sierra pro hunters have become like hens teeth around me in the last few months, Kranks were not expecting an order for two months and I was out. No worries, I would find some at the Midland Game fair. Now I normally pay about £18 for 100 x 100grain pro hunter, the boat tails are a quid more expensive and as far as I know there hasnt been a massive price hike. Enter Brock Norris, £32.75 for a 100 prohunters, well I was out so I had to have em but what a differance, ok it was a show but still. When Kranks have em back in stock I will buy a load so I dont have to line Brock Norris pockets further.

[henry d]

My local shop did V-max 50gn .224`s for £20, less than a year later £26 !!!!!!

[Redgum]

Well thats sorted that then Fister, if you see a fuel station selling diesel for 4 quid a litre you will just pull in and think, well the poor chap must have a lot of overheads.

All prices are relative, overcharging is ok if people are will to pay the price, I had to get some heads so I was willing on this occasion but what about somebody new to shooting or reloading, ripe to be ripped off. May be your world but not mine.

[Redgum]

The point I was trying to make, yes we all have to make a living but sometimes gun shops can be misleading and take advantage and if you have never come across this then you are lucky. I know how it works, I'm self employed and have to live by me witts. I can buy H414 for £32 a lb if I drive 15 miles or I can get it just down the road for £38, prices vary and we can choose, but when a prices go up by 100% then thats not inflation. Just to simplify my point, if my local RFD put H414 up to £68 I wouldnt buy it but a complete novice wanting to start reloading would buy it because thats all he would know, is that fair.

At the end of the day fister it doesnt really matter because if you over price then you will be rich or out of business, end of, but do you not think a bit of shared knowledge is a good thing.

 

Ps Henry Kranks is a pretty busy shop thats why I use it as a guide.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Redgum

[mikee]

got 100x100gn sierra game kings from my local shop for just under £23

 

mikee

[Redgum]

There isnt one Fister but we don't have to give up fighting back a bit.

[Vince Green]

The dealers are struggling, we have to recognise that. The alternative is to watch them go under and drive hundreds of miles to buy our bullets and supplies from a few central sources.

Its not their fault, its the way that the law has been enacted and what we are seeing is the inevetable consequence. eventually it is going to happen that way, its just a matter of time. They are not unscupulous, just desperate.

Edited October 3, 2010 by Vince Green

[Paddy Galore!]

just to add, my local shop get's charged a fortune for p&p on ammo, he has to buy a substantial amount to make it worthwhile, this ends up hanging around the shop for ages so it's hardly lucrative. his carts make him 10p a box, he buys about 2 pallets at a time and still people moan about the prices or availability. the trouble is like most other shops ther isn't the storage cpacity for 50,000 carts so it's either limited range of carts or small amounts of everything, not to mention the initial outlay. some of you might complain about an extra £5 here and there, but i doubt they're ripping anyone off.

[Vince Green]

just to add, my local shop get's charged a fortune for p&p on ammo, he has to buy a substantial amount to make it worthwhile, this ends up hanging around the shop for ages so it's hardly lucrative. his carts make him 10p a box, he buys about 2 pallets at a time and still people moan about the prices or availability. the trouble is like most other shops ther isn't the storage cpacity for 50,000 carts so it's either limited range of carts or small amounts of everything, not to mention the initial outlay. some of you might complain about an extra £5 here and there, but i doubt they're ripping anyone off.

I agree absoluetely. You really wouldn't want to blame them for ripping you off. Who would want to be in their position right now?

[Redgum]

I agree absoluetely. You really wouldn't want to blame them for ripping you off. Who would want to be in their position right now?

 

Best you pop into your local Rfd and offer him double what hes charging then, he can stay in business and we will all go home happy.

My wife always says I'm hard to understand, your not really getting the point I was making. The gun trade is tough yes, alot of trades are tough yes, times are tough yes. We do need to support our local trade and support it I do but not all RFD's are poor heros living off bread and nose drippings.

Without shooting there would not be a gun trade at all, a coin has two side etc, ahhhh I give up.

[Vince Green]

Best you pop into your local Rfd and offer him double what hes charging then, he can stay in business and we will all go home happy.

My wife always says I'm hard to understand, your not really getting the point I was making. The gun trade is tough yes, alot of trades are tough yes, times are tough yes. We do need to support our local trade and support it I do but not all RFD's are poor heros living off bread and nose drippings.

Without shooting there would not be a gun trade at all, a coin has two side etc, ahhhh I give up.

Very slowly the gun trade is dying. Dealers are closing all the time. The ones that are left have no stock on the shelf. Importers have shortages. You say not all rfds are poor hero's living on bread and nose drippings, who are the ones that aren't?

[Mr_Logic]

All of this fair. One thing, if the RFDs are closing, how many close because their customer service stinks? Certainly round here more shops make me stay away than make me want to go back.

 

Adenbourne @ Witney is one I do like, and do a lot of business with. Reason? Polite service, reasonable prices. Their p/ex prices are always better than the competition and because of that I do more business. Many shops try and fleece you once, rather than serve you many times.

[monshussar]

I bought 100x100gn sierra game kings for £20 at Neath Gun Shop yesterday, nice little shop too

[Vince Green]

All of this fair. One thing, if the RFDs are closing, how many close because their customer service stinks? Certainly round here more shops make me stay away than make me want to go back.

 

Adenbourne @ Witney is one I do like, and do a lot of business with. Reason? Polite service, reasonable prices. Their p/ex prices are always better than the competition and because of that I do more business. Many shops try and fleece you once, rather than serve you many times.

 

I know what you mean about the customer service. To be charitable we don't know what sort of pressures they are under and it must be depressing for them.

To be realistic most shops just don't have enough customers within say a 20 mile radius of their shops to turn over enough cash week in week out to justify keeping a decent stock of anything anymore. Then the whole thing spirals downwards.

 

Most people I know buy more things on the internet these days. I recently picked up a secondhand .22 rifle. Bought the scope (Bushnell) from Hong Kong and the mounts from Debden. Sit here, press a button and its done. Why spend hours on a trip to my local dealer only to find he hasn't got anything and is as grumpy as anything?

 

Need a case now for it, Internet again probably. I have no doubt it will be cheaper, even with the postage.

Edited October 6, 2010 by Vince Green

[Redgum]

Well maybe this is the truth for a lot of traders, I support my local traders and trade fairs eg CLA and Midland thus I expect not to be riped off. Vince your telling me all about RFD's going out of business and having it hard, standby overcharging etc yet you don't seem ta support em much, money and mouth springs to mind.

[Mr_Logic]

If dealers offer me value for money, then I'm happy to use them. Service is definitely worth something.

[Redgum]

If dealers offer me value for money, then I'm happy to use them. Service is definitely worth something.

 

Service is worth EVERYTHING these days, you don't get this on the internet. I wouldnt buy a gun that I had'nt seen first, I can't buy expanding ammo on the internet and things like shotgun shells, powder and primers, well postage usually gets expensive. I do buy some fly fishing equipment of the internet but thats because Sportsfish offer great service and I know what I'm buying.

As long as our sport exists then so will gunshops, they have a certain monopoly as guns are under strict license along with the ammunition but in these hard times only the good will prevail. The more bad ones that are highlight means more trade for the good.

[Dangerzone]

"As long as our sport exists then so will gunshops, they have a certain monopoly as guns are under strict license along with the ammunition but in these hard times only the good will prevail"

 

WRONG!!! Only the profitable ones will be there, the mark-up on bullets, cartridges, powder and new guns is non sustainable as a stand alone business. Gun repairs, clothing ect make profit........100 bullets every now and then just gets you through the door in the hope you'll buy a new jacket while your there!!!

 

A big part of why the shooting retail industry is dying is there's too many part time RFD's selling things at little to no profit, sometimes out of little more than their garage, pulling down the whole industry. I have friends doing this, cost + 10% on small things, cost + 5% on bigger things, buy 100 heads for £20 and sell them at £22.......buy in 10 tubs of powder and add £5.......it's business suicide, well it would be for them if they had to actualy turn a profit to make a living!!!

I just pitty the poor wee one man band gunshop trying to compete with them, trying to make a profit selling boxes of heads to guys who come onto forums and call them out as crooks, would you want to be in his shoes?

[Vince Green]

Well maybe this is the truth for a lot of traders, I support my local traders and trade fairs eg CLA and Midland thus I expect not to be riped off. Vince your telling me all about RFD's going out of business and having it hard, standby overcharging etc yet you don't seem ta support em much, money and mouth springs to mind.

Yes I agree with you and accept the criticism. Its not for the want of trying in the past but I am afraid you are right.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Vince Green

[Redgum]

"As long as our sport exists then so will gunshops, they have a certain monopoly as guns are under strict license along with the ammunition but in these hard times only the good will prevail"

 

WRONG!!! Only the profitable ones will be there, the mark-up on bullets, cartridges, powder and new guns is non sustainable as a stand alone business. Gun repairs, clothing ect make profit........100 bullets every now and then just gets you through the door in the hope you'll buy a new jacket while your there!!!

 

A big part of why the shooting retail industry is dying is there's too many part time RFD's selling things at little to no profit, sometimes out of little more than their garage, pulling down the whole industry. I have friends doing this, cost + 10% on small things, cost + 5% on bigger things, buy 100 heads for £20 and sell them at £22.......buy in 10 tubs of powder and add £5.......it's business suicide, well it would be for them if they had to actualy turn a profit to make a living!!!

I just pitty the poor wee one man band gunshop trying to compete with them, trying to make a profit selling boxes of heads to guys who come onto forums and call them out as crooks, would you want to be in his shoes?

 

Though in a differant trade Dangerzone I work for myself, things change, we have to move a little to the left or the right to suit. The markets and customers wants change constantly and we have to move with it or get a job in a factory. Please explain to me why someone goes to all the trouble of being a registered RFD to sell things for next to nothing out of the back of their garage. Yes, some do it for the love of it and its all they know, some are retired and do it as a hobby but as a business survival means offering something else that others can't or won't. Exceptional service,diversifying in someway, open a massage parlour upstairs or something. One things for sure ,over charging is business suicide and the likes of all you mr bigs on the sympathy wont be digging deep into your pockets to bail em out for sure.

[Mr_Logic]

"As long as our sport exists then so will gunshops, they have a certain monopoly as guns are under strict license along with the ammunition but in these hard times only the good will prevail"

 

WRONG!!! Only the profitable ones will be there, the mark-up on bullets, cartridges, powder and new guns is non sustainable as a stand alone business. Gun repairs, clothing ect make profit........100 bullets every now and then just gets you through the door in the hope you'll buy a new jacket while your there!!!

 

A big part of why the shooting retail industry is dying is there's too many part time RFD's selling things at little to no profit, sometimes out of little more than their garage, pulling down the whole industry. I have friends doing this, cost + 10% on small things, cost + 5% on bigger things, buy 100 heads for £20 and sell them at £22.......buy in 10 tubs of powder and add £5.......it's business suicide, well it would be for them if they had to actualy turn a profit to make a living!!!

I just pitty the poor wee one man band gunshop trying to compete with them, trying to make a profit selling boxes of heads to guys who come onto forums and call them out as crooks, would you want to be in his shoes?

It's really not business suicide. It's the stack-em-high-and-sell-em-cheap business model and it works very well - see Walmart! Low-margin consumables are good for shooters in terms of price. The logical endgame is a few large regional shops with cheap supplies so there are pros and cons, but rather this than being ***-raped by a cartel of high margin gunshops!

[Vince Green]

It's really not business suicide. It's the stack-em-high-and-sell-em-cheap business model and it works very well - see Walmart! Low-margin consumables are good for shooters in terms of price. The logical endgame is a few large regional shops with cheap supplies so there are pros and cons, but rather this than being ***-raped by a cartel of high margin gunshops!

The pile it high / sell it cheap model only works if you have a high throughput of customers. Thats where the system breaks down for gunshops. I have been in my local gunshop many times and found it full of people but nobody buying much at all. More like a social club.

 

But internet traders can pile it high and sell it cheap. They have no overheads and can run their business from anywhere.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Vince Green

[Redgum]

Not easy buying guns, expanding ammunition, primers and powder on the net, some will have to go through a RFD or have hefty transport charges. Agree though on scopes and accessories, if you are operating from home or your shed with no extra overheads or employee charges you can under cut the trade. That said, I have to know my internet supplier well, some companys like Opticswarehouse are internet traders who do offer extremely good and friendly service. I got caught once with a dodgy product with another trader and remailing costs on returning product, online arguments and lack of response drove me to dispair. Many reconised and well established RFDs have moved with the times and are thriving, unfortunatly those who do not move forward then it can be a sad business with dust settling on the till.