.22 hornet as a fox calibre

[aj85]

thanks again guys. it seems the hornet is exactly what i need in my situation.

a round that will cleanly kill a fox out to around 100 yards, rarely a little more, and usually a bit closer.

is fairly quiet, and has less chance of overpenetration than some of the other fox calibres.

there are good grassy hills as backstops and my shooting position is higher up aiming down at their usual run which is on soft ground.

although i know the larger calibres are probably more usefull in most situations, i just don't really see the need for one on this small bit of land.

 

and also the amount of ammunition i would be using would be fairly small, once zeroed., a few sighting in shots once at the land and the odd sneaky fox.

 

by the way my force do state the .22 hornet as the smallest acceptable fox round.

[Hornet 6]

Fox ?? Get a 223 you'll never look back in my opinion

 

 

Les

 

I have both as I said above, the .223 came first.

The hornet is all you need for 150 yard foxes, if on the other hand you regularly need to shoot them at 150 yards or more then .223 is the tool for the job.

Although if a .223 is better than a hornet then perhaps you should just go with a .243 and have done with it.

 

 

Neil.

[al4x]

I have both as I said above, the .223 came first.

The hornet is all you need for 150 yard foxes, if on the other hand you regularly need to shoot them at 150 yards or more then .223 is the tool for the job.

Although if a .223 is better than a hornet then perhaps you should just go with a .243 and have done with it.

 

 

Neil.

 

 

I struggle with the idea of if you have both why you'd take the hornet out and restrict your shots as you can guarantee you'd find one that would sit at 200 and not come closer. In this case is it your only land to shoot on? if so then the hornet will be fine as you won't be using it much, if you start to enjoy fox shooting and more land comes along you'll regret not just going straight for something a bit bigger as its a costly business changing guns

[Mr_Logic]

Hornet is a great bunny gun too...

[Richie10]

The hornet used to be a legal deer round.

[wymberley]

I also have 22 hornet aswell as 223 plus other cals..hardly used the hornet but thinking of getting it out when home..i have plenty of 40gns v-max heads so whats a good load to look at that you guys have found work..obv i will start lower and work up..been a while since i used mine.

 

Mick

Hi,

Hodgdon say 11.2gr for 2795ft/sec and Lee says 11 for 2845. You pays your money and......

You've got lots of them and obviously don't want to waste them and as we know there's nowt wrong with Vmax. However, just out of interest when you run short, just have a look at the BC for those and the 40gr Nosler BT.

Cheers

[kent]

The hornet used to be a legal deer round.

 

Yeah, before the deer act you could use anything. says nothing for the calibre itself i feel.

[Mr_Logic]

It was commonly used on roe. And I can see why, no recoil and so long as you keep the range down they're gonna fall over...

[njc110381]

I'd happily shoot a Roe Deer with a .22 Hornet if it was legal. At woodland ranges a well placed shot would do the deed with ease.

 

I really do think it's just what the OP needs. He'd get by fine with a rimfire if he was allowed to.

[Alycidon]

hi guys, im just filling out my fac forms for my first grant and as my local constabulary dont allow rimfire as a fox tool im thinking of a .22 hornet.

dont really want to go bigger as the land it is to be used on is only around 16 acres, the tererain is undulating with good soft backstops and in a rural area surrounded by farmland.

how effective as a fox calibre is the .22 hornet? will be mainly at ranges up to 100 yards, probably closer near the chicken pens.

cheers guys.

 

 

16 acres is small for any firearm grant, I dont think you would get a larger centerfire on it but a Hornet you just might. Prepare supportive evidence such as cartridge performance figures from Wikipedia, about 500-700 ft lbs at the muzzle from memory. The large majority of foxes are shot at under 150 yards, at this distance a Hornet will be fine providing you find one that is accurate. Some can be dire so I read.

 

A

[Mr_Logic]

Stick with the CZ527. Mine does .5 MOA all the time @ 100 yards, and the one time I tried it on paper further out, albeit a very calm day, I got about 3/4 inch at 200 and 1/2 inch at 225 yards, 5 shot @ 200 and 4-shot @ 225

[kent]

16 acres is small for any firearm grant, I dont think you would get a larger centerfire on it but a Hornet you just might. Prepare supportive evidence such as cartridge performance figures from Wikipedia, about 500-700 ft lbs at the muzzle from memory. The large majority of foxes are shot at under 150 yards, at this distance a Hornet will be fine providing you find one that is accurate. Some can be dire so I read.

 

A

 

Nah, if the guy who has a decent FEO who realises that its not how big but how safe the land and shooter are he will be just fine at 16 acres. There is obviously someone here who believes the hornet can realy shoot some but i have never seen one that can do as above personally even with hand loads, his even shoots better at 225 yds than it does at 100!!!!!!!!!!!- now thats going some

[Mr_Logic]

I still have the target if you want me to post it. Least I think I do...

 

It won't do that all the time, but it did it that day.

[njc110381]

1/2" at 225 yards is a very good group because it will be losing pace quite a bit by then with the stumpy Hornet bullets. That said, I did do a one hole five shot group with my HMR once at 120 yards.... Note the once bit, it didn't happen every time.

 

The Hornet can be a shooter. It's very important to follow some quite strict rules of reloading to get the best from it and also have the right gun (CZ), but it can do very well. Sub 1/2 MOA isn't unheard of out to 200 yards.

[wymberley]

OK, guys, the OP asked a sensible question and what has he learnt? That:

His chief constable/FLO are either ballistically naive, previously a member of the local hunt or that his wife feeds foxes in the back garden.

A 223 or 204 is ideal for 100yds in a small area.

A 22WMR would serve his needs, if permitted.

And, yes, the hornet is good as well.

 

Let's take the CC and FLO out of the equation and see what's left. If it wasn't for the fact that most people went for the hornet, you could argue that the guy could have ended up somewhat confused.

So, here's a thought, nothing more at this stage. Any similar question always seems to get the same wide range of answers; from the sublime to the ridiculous. Instead of a range of independent answers, why don't we put the vast amount of knowledge that members collectively have into a team effort? The stalkers have courses and various other training facilities so to include them and their rifle calibre would be teaching Granny, but for fox shooters theres no such information that you could readily describe as definitive. Consequently could we not come up with some information which could possibly even be "pinned" and be an "aide memoire" to novices in particular but to the average shooter as well which provides something more than an "idiots guide" to the maximum effective range of the commonly used rifles for fox shooting for the skill level of an average shooter?

 

The ballistic tables are readily available so all we would have to do is to come up with some guidelines which our collective knowledge would deem to be appropriate and combine the information. For example, what energy does our experience tell us is necessary to drop a fox cleanly with a chest shot, what is (damn, can't think of the term) the highest point a bullet should reach before reaching its zero that will ensure a kill without holding under, what allowance for drop beyond the zero distance is an average shooter able to judge? Similarly to the last point, should windage judgement be included?

 

Thoughts anyone?

 

Cheers

Phil

[Mr_Logic]

I think it's a noble, but flawed, cause. The problem is that the different info comes from different experiences. Everyone has different answers to questions about how to kill stuff.

 

Some believe that the bigger the cartridge the better it is. Personally I think that's ********, everything has a time and a place.

 

There are few right and wrong answers with shooting - just lots of grey areas. Every round is different, every calibre has different characteristics.

 

Ultimately there is only one way to learn - get out there and do it!

 

I've got loads of rifles, and I've been through a load more, learning all the time about what works and what doesn't. The only thing I really did learn was that there are different tools for different jobs. There is no univeral answer, except possibly the 243 - there really is nothing you can't do with that calibre. Ironically enough, I've just sold mine and don't plan on replacing it because I have rifles which are closer to my needs in other calibres.

[aj85]

some very interesting replies there guys and i thank you for taking the time to help me out.

have had a word with the landowner today and let him know the score and fac procedure for land clearance etc. ... long story short he has no problems with me shooting on there, (sub 12 ftlb air rifles) as i do and really needs the fox problem dealt with, but does not want the police snooping around.

so as its my only fac suitable permission im stumped (unless its been pre cleared)

have already bought and fitted my gun cabinet so now thinking of going down the shotgun route.

[njc110381]

To be honest they don't snoop around, and are barely even real coppers! Often they are civilians employed to push a pen. From my experience sometimes all they have to do is turn up and look out of the car window and they have no interest other than to check the ground is safe.

 

I know it's tough talking to land owners about these things but I do feel that if your chap knew more about how these things work he'd be a lot more easy going about it. I think some people feel it may be like being raided and searched but it's not. A shotgun could work, but it's very hard work compared to a rifle!

[aj85]

To be honest they don't snoop around, and are barely even real coppers! Often they are civilians employed to push a pen. From my experience sometimes all they have to do is turn up and look out of the car window and they have no interest other than to check the ground is safe.

 

I know it's tough talking to land owners about these things but I do feel that if your chap knew more about how these things work he'd be a lot more easy going about it. I think some people feel it may be like being raided and searched but it's not. A shotgun could work, but it's very hard work compared to a rifle!

 

 

i know the guy quite well, long before i ever shot on his land and he is a really nice bloke once you get to know him. but also a stubborn old so and so.

after researching and asking on here etc im sure a hornet would be ideal and safe to use on the land, but if he dosent come round im stuffed.

im down there this weekend so i'll work my charm on him and see if i can change his mind.

don't really know shotguns too welll only having shot them twice at the range. i'd much prefer to use a rifle.

im much more confident in my ability with a rifle, have fired many thousands of rounds during my time in the forces (not the same i know) but know to stay within what im capable of.

[kent]

I still have the target if you want me to post it. Least I think I do...

 

It won't do that all the time, but it did it that day.

 

1/2" at 225yds is totally meaningless and totally misrepresentitive, producing the target is pointless as at best its a fluke (as its tighter than your 100yds group) No kidding it won't do it all the time. The law of odds will get you a good group beyond the abilities of the gun from time to time- i once shot a screamer with a reticule that was near 1/3" thick at 100yds so i could't have even lined the shot up to do that it was just the odds comming together

[hillmouse]

When I started 'keepering over 30 years ago almost every grouse 'keeper I knew had a BRNO Fox in .22 Hornet, a BRNO 452 in.22LR and something like a Parker Hale or CZ in .243, .270 or .308 for the deer. Anything else was almost unheard of.

 

The .22 Hornet put thousands of foxes, stoats and crows to bed then and I doubt much has changed except we all have more time and money to spend on different calibres and get all wrapped up in ballistics.

 

The bigger and newer .22 centrefire calibres most definitely do have better accurate range and I am as guilty as the rest with a .22-250 in the cabinet.

 

I think the original question was will a .22 Hornet do the job on 16 acres with foxes not much beyond 100 yards and the answer has to be yes, definitely.

[wymberley]

Hi,

We'll kick post #40 into touch then. Purely for my own interest, I ran a few calibres/bullet weights for a set of parameters that I came up with (not sure if they would be considered valid by all for the average shooter which is all I am though) and concluded that for said average shooter, we're over gunned (me included). However, as my FAC renewal is in hand I may just do something about it.

Cheers

[wildfowler.250]

Maybe I missed something...but why not use a cage trap?

 

 

 

 

 

[wymberley]

Maybe I missed something...but why not use a cage trap?

 

If you're a bit quicker, you may not miss the 1 in 8 T3 223 Varmint in pristine condition with less than 550 rounds down, complete with moderator and which just loves 50gr which may well appear in the for sale section shortly.

Cheers

[Hornet 6]

Maybe I missed something...but why not use a cage trap?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Great, now you come along with a sensible suggestion

Two things, you need to be able to check the trap at least daily, and should do it more often.

More importantly, where's the fun in that

 

Neil.