oh dear

[leeds chimp]

Dont leave the gun or the slab of cartridges in the car unattended fullstop broken down or not. In the eyes of the law its a firearm or shotgun which has been stolen, broken down incomplete or whatever it doesnt matter. I dont think the authorities will show any lenency Im afraid. The guy may well have been a victim of theft but also it could be construed he too has been guilty of an offence. The fact that it was unattended illustrates that the guy didnt take "every reasonable precaution"..thats the way the CPS lawyers will look at it.

 

So i assume it was locked in the boot of a car out of sight....and thats not reasonable??? :blink:

[MC]

What absolute poppycock,

 

So if you had to stop off at a supermarket on your way to or from a shoot you would take your gun and ammo in with you would you?

 

Taking the forend may make the gun inoperable but it doesn't stop it getting stolen does it?

[djrwood]

I know that leaving the gun and cartridges in the car wasn't perhaps the most sensible thing to do, but as far as I am aware it is not illegal. It even says that the gun was dismantled so it may not have been in a gun shaped bag.

 

Let us not forget though with some of the comments being made here. This guy is not a criminal, he is the victim of a crime. He has had his pigeon shooting equipment stolen by some ne'er do well and his sport ruined. I cannot say any more than that from the facts that are on the BBC website.

 

 

Finally a sensible reply to this thread. I mean for god sake a fellow shooter has been a victim of crime and all most can do on here is slate him. I would absolutly love to know how you fellows are able to transport your guns and ammo so heroically. I go clay shooting more than rough shooting and so for a bit of variety go to different grounds around the country. Heaven forbid I need to stop at a services for a coffee on a long drive home. Oh ill take the advice of some of you and not leave my gun ill just stroll into mcdonalds with it and then you can start another thread wwhen I have my own article in bbc news.

 

This is reidiculous. If the bloke left it on his seat in open view then yes he is to blame but I do not see a problem if its hidden in his boot. If you are shooting on your own how do you ensure that you do not leave your gun and ammo in the same place? What do you do two trips or just buy what carts you need everytime you go?

 

I am all for gun safety and would not use or transport a gun unless I knew that I was safe. Just some responses on here have been really idiotic. Honestly some people here are verging on being heroic.

[al4x]

as MC says people do it every day of the week, try this one on for size if you believe the law acts like that.

 

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/392/304186.html

 

he was silly but we don't know the full facts as his looked like a set up. One local case here a clay shooter took two guns to a clay shoot left one in the vehicle on private land and had that stolen. He kept his ticket as it was out of view on private property etc. These are facts not making up suspicions as you go along. You have to take reasonable precautions in the eyes of the law locking and alarming the car with the gun out of sight stops most thefts. You don't leave them for long but simple fact is if you drive a long way for a weekends shooting odds are you will have to refuel and it is not practical to drag guns and ammo into the shop with you. If you go shooting and stay away you don't have to keep the guns in a safe but being sensible you remove the forend, worst happens you get two shots and that is that. Hell the police leave more guns in toilets and on top of cars than most so they are reasonably sensible in that if you do shoot then guns will have to be moved about and at times they will be left in a vehicle or hotel room etc

[al4x]

What absolute poppycock,

 

 

 

 

you wouldn't believe how much of that has been floating about in the last couple of weeks

[MC]

you wouldn't believe how much of that has been floating about in the last couple of weeks

 

 

Oh I would,

 

Being suspended hasn't stopped me reading some of the drivel that has been posted.

[Fisherman Mike]

Jesus christ there is some paranoid people on here. So the gun was left in a car? God forbid.

 

Anyone who says they take their gun and ammo with them if they stop off at a shop isn't fooling anyone. Toy guns do not count here fellas.

 

Anyone who actually shoots and owns a gun will have left theirs several times.

 

I know I have. The law says you need to make REASONABLE precautions to keep your guns safe. I would consider being locked in a car for a few minutes reasonable.

 

 

Rubbish imo .....I certainly havent and im sure many others havent either. If they have then they are exceedingly stupid.

 

Paranoia has nothing to do with it it should be just plain common sense when it comes to FA security.

 

 

What difference does the length of time left unattended make? Answer …absolutely zilch.In the eyes of the law time is not of essence….. so its OK to leave the gun locked in the boot for a week in a public carpark is it, as it is to pop into the shop for some fags. Doesnt matter if you concede a goal in the first minute or the 92 the affect is the same…youve lost…

[al4x]

Oh I would,

 

Being suspended hasn't stopped me reading some of the drivel that has been posted.

 

 

**** you got suspended :lol:

[poontang]

Oh I would,

 

Being suspended hasn't stopped me reading some of the drivel that has been posted.

 

I thought you were on holiday?

 

Should have known better when my card never arrived

[MC]

Rubbish imo .....I certainly havent and im sure many others havent either. If they have then they are exceedingly stupid.

 

Paranoia has nothing to do with it it should be just plain common sense when it comes to FA security.

 

 

What difference does the length of time left unattended make? Answer …absolutely zilch.In the eyes of the law time is not of essence….. so its OK to leave the gun locked in the boot for a week in a public carpark is it, as it is to pop into the shop for some fags. Doesn’t matter if you concede a goal in the first minute or the 92 the affect is the same…you’ve lost…

 

So what do you do then? Drive home, clean your gun, lock it away and then polish your halo and then go back out to the shop?

 

No of course you don't.

 

All I can say is paranoia is rife and so is the crime where you live. I have no issues with leaving a gun in my car while I am not there. By locking it and the car being alarmed it is probably more secure than my house anyway.

 

And if you find that statement a little tough to believe check out your front door locks and then google "Key bumping"

[djrwood]

Rubbish imo .....I certainly havent and im sure many others havent either. If they have then they are exceedingly stupid.

 

Paranoia has nothing to do with it it should be just plain common sense when it comes to FA security.

 

 

What difference does the length of time left unattended make? Answer …absolutely zilch.In the eyes of the law time is not of essence….. so its OK to leave the gun locked in the boot for a week in a public carpark is it, as it is to pop into the shop for some fags. Doesn’t matter if you concede a goal in the first minute or the 92 the affect is the same…you’ve lost…

 

Complete rubbish. Of course it matters how long it is left? Leaving a gun in a public car park for a week is completely irresponsible in my eyes and everyone else on here. This is completely different to leaving it in your car when you go to the shop on the way home. Time has everything to do with it. Nonsense

[al4x]

 

 

What difference does the length of time left unattended make? Answer …absolutely zilch.In the eyes of the law time is not of essence….. so its OK to leave the gun locked in the boot for a week in a public carpark is it, as it is to pop into the shop for some fags. Doesn’t matter if you concede a goal in the first minute or the 92 the affect is the same…you’ve lost…

 

 

actually it makes all the difference in the eyes of the law as you say. They accept reasonable as nipping into a shop to fuel up or a reason you have to leave the guns in the boot so to speak. They accept it is reasonable to ask you to keep them out of sight and where possible carry a component with you. Rifles a bolt will do shotguns forend, leave the guns in overnight as you couldn't be bothered to take them out at home though and you will loose the lot. Same as if they find any not in your cabinet round the house or farm, if they aren't out for a reason they will throw the book at you

[poontang]

Rubbish imo .....I certainly havent and im sure many others havent either. If they have then they are exceedingly stupid.

 

 

 

 

I'm sure more people have than haven't. Especially clay shooters who lock their guns in the boot after shooting before going in the clubhouse.

Not sure if you were at Hodnet last year but there must have been about 50 cars in the car park with guns in the boot whilst everyone was in the clubhouse. Easy pickings for someone wanting a gun and I'm sure that scenario is played out every day all over the country.

[MC]

I'm sure more people have than haven't. Especially clay shooters who lock their guns in the boot after shooting before going in the clubhouse.

Not sure if you were at Hodnet last year but there must have been about 50 cars in the car park with guns in the boot whilst everyone was in the clubhouse. Easy pickings for someone wanting a gun and I'm sure that scenario is played out every day all over the country.

 

 

Very valid reason as is Al4x's about stopping for fuel.

 

Walking into a petrol station with a gun and ammo is asking for far more trouble than leaving them in a locked car.

[Fisherman Mike]

We shall see when the Authorities decide what action to take...

[al4x]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Warning-thieves-firearm-car/article-3004907-detail/article.html

 

pop this in yer pipe and smoke it

 

"If they do have to leave the item in the car they should dismantle it, take a working section of the firearm with them, so the remaining parts are useless to anyone who may come across them."

[officerdibble777]

Very valid reason as is Al4x's about stopping for fuel.

 

Walking into a petrol station with a gun and ammo is asking for far more trouble than leaving them in a locked car.

 

 

I don't go to town very often,but sometimes on my way to a clay ground I'll stop at the building society to deposit some cheques because it's on my way,what should I do ?

Don't see standing in line with a shotgun going down too well

[4eyes]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Warning-thieves-firearm-car/article-3004907-detail/article.html

 

pop this in yer pipe and smoke it

 

"If they do have to leave the item in the car they should dismantle it, take a working section of the firearm with them, so the remaining parts are useless to anyone who may come across them."

 

Exactly what I was told by the FEO. At the end of the day he has a say in whether I keep my cert or not, so, i'm gonna have to listen to him. Besides, really, how much of an inconvinience is it? Cars are easy to break in to and ANY precaution you can take can only be good. Even if its not law, is it just not good practice...

[Fisherman Mike]

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Warning-thieves-firearm-car/article-3004907-detail/article.html

 

pop this in yer pipe and smoke it

 

"If they do have to leave the item in the car they should dismantle it, take a working section of the firearm with them, so the remaining parts are useless to anyone who may come across them."

 

 

fair enough but I dont smoke......Lets wait and see what happens though when he applies for a renewel.

 

Still shouldnt leave it unattended though IMO even for a minute...

[Fisherman Mike]

So what do you do then? Drive home, clean your gun, lock it away and then polish your halo and then go back out to the shop?

 

No of course you don't.

 

All I can say is paranoia is rife and so is the crime where you live. I have no issues with leaving a gun in my car while I am not there. By locking it and the car being alarmed it is probably more secure than my house anyway.And if you find that statement a little tough to believe check out your front door locks and then google "Key bumping"

 

How the hell did you manage to convince the FALO to sanction your SG application with comments like that. Next time you see him tell him this will you...

[MC]

How the hell did you manage to convince the FALO to sanction your SG application with comments like that. Next time you see him tell him this will you...

 

 

You really are naive aren't you. I do not have an issue with my FEO. I abide by the laws laid down in this country.

 

I assume that you haven't bothered to google key bumping, but try "Picking a 7 lever lock" and watch the you tube videos.

 

Believe me it is far easier to get into a house than it is a car.

[al4x]

fair enough but I dont smoke......Lets wait and see what happens though when he applies for a renewel.

 

Still shouldnt leave it unattended though IMO even for a minute...

 

 

we won't see though as it won't make the news. There are lots of situations where it won't be an issue, and the odd situation where it is a problem. Here is my forces guidelines and the key is the word where practicable

 

 

 

Part 6 - Firearms etc in TransitCarriage by Road - Section 1 & 2 Firearms and Ammunition (FA1968)Private Individuals6.1 While carrying firearms in a vehicle, the following steps are considered to accord with the duty to ensure the safe custody of the firearms and/or ammunition.6.1.1 Any guns should be hidden, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle where practicable. Vehicles used frequently for transporting firearms should ideally have an immobiliser and/or alarm fitted.6.1.2 If the vehicle is left unattended for any reason, firearms should be concealed, preferably in the locked luggage compartment and (where practicable), an essential component such as the bolt or forend removed and kept in possession of the responsible person. Where possible any ammunition should be stored separately from the firearm and this too should be concealed from view. The vehicle should be locked, and any immobiliser or alarm should be set. If possible, the vehicle should be parked within the sight of the responsible person.6.1.3 In the case of an estate, hatchback or similar vehicles, the following recommendations should be considered:· The responsible person should ensure that the lid or cover of the load carrying area is in place and /or that the guns are so covered or concealed to prevent their identification;· Whenever possible the guns and ammunition should not be stored together. Where the boot or load carrying area is the most practical place, ammunition should be secured in an appropriate container, ideally secured to the vehicle - if practicable;· Wherever practicable, the bolt, magazine or other vital operating part should be separated from the gun and either carried on the person or secured or hidden in the vehicle, or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle if practicable;· If firearms are regularly carried in such a vehicle, provision should be made for securing the firearms to the vehicle's structure. Eg security cases, cage, cable or clamp.6.1.4 When firearms and ammunition are being carried on a journey which involves them being kept away from their usual secure storage, the responsible person should ensure that they are, as far as reasonably practicable, secure. Consideration when firearms are being taken to venues involving overnight or longer accommodation might include:· Obtaining accommodation which provides secure facilities (many country hotels offer this service);· Separating and retaining possession of integral parts of the firearm to prevent it being used, or;· Using portable security devices, such as security cords

[MC]

we won't see though as it won't make the news. There are lots of situations where it won't be an issue, and the odd situation where it is a problem. Here is my forces guidelines and the key is the word where practicable

 

 

 

Part 6 - Firearms etc in TransitCarriage by Road - Section 1 & 2 Firearms and Ammunition (FA1968)Private Individuals6.1 While carrying firearms in a vehicle, the following steps are considered to accord with the duty to ensure the safe custody of the firearms and/or ammunition.6.1.1 Any guns should be hidden, preferably in the locked boot or other secured load carrying area of the vehicle where practicable. Vehicles used frequently for transporting firearms should ideally have an immobiliser and/or alarm fitted.6.1.2 If the vehicle is left unattended for any reason, firearms should be concealed, preferably in the locked luggage compartment and (where practicable), an essential component such as the bolt or forend removed and kept in possession of the responsible person. Where possible any ammunition should be stored separately from the firearm and this too should be concealed from view. The vehicle should be locked, and any immobiliser or alarm should be set. If possible, the vehicle should be parked within the sight of the responsible person.6.1.3 In the case of an estate, hatchback or similar vehicles, the following recommendations should be considered:· The responsible person should ensure that the lid or cover of the load carrying area is in place and /or that the guns are so covered or concealed to prevent their identification;· Whenever possible the guns and ammunition should not be stored together. Where the boot or load carrying area is the most practical place, ammunition should be secured in an appropriate container, ideally secured to the vehicle - if practicable;· Wherever practicable, the bolt, magazine or other vital operating part should be separated from the gun and either carried on the person or secured or hidden in the vehicle, or kept in a locked container, ideally secured to the vehicle if practicable;· If firearms are regularly carried in such a vehicle, provision should be made for securing the firearms to the vehicle's structure. Eg security cases, cage, cable or clamp.6.1.4 When firearms and ammunition are being carried on a journey which involves them being kept away from their usual secure storage, the responsible person should ensure that they are, as far as reasonably practicable, secure. Consideration when firearms are being taken to venues involving overnight or longer accommodation might include:· Obtaining accommodation which provides secure facilities (many country hotels offer this service);· Separating and retaining possession of integral parts of the firearm to prevent it being used, or;· Using portable security devices, such as security cords

 

 

And what that should finish with is "None of these measure will prevent your firearm or ammunition being stolen"

 

And answer this,

 

If some lowlife stuffs a sawn off shotgun in the face of a bank clerk do you reckon they will think to themselves "Oh no it is OK, he cannot shoot me as he doesn't have the forend"?

[al4x]

exactly and that is why the police show a sensible approach to firearms security. They know if guns are about that some will get stolen and they know how to reduce the risk. If you look at how many are stolen in burglaries you can easily see even leaving them in the cabinet at home isn't without risk

[Fisherman Mike]

Thats all very well but you would normally expect someone to be resident in a house during the majority of the day. All said and done this case has done nothing to further the image of shotgun users in this country. Put yourself in the position of the majority (Joe Public) now when you read this in the paper… Are they going to say “Oh Hard luck but I bet he took every reasonable precaution and dismantled his gun before stopping off at the shop” ? …no of course not…. they are ignorantly going to say “what sort of idiot leaves a gun and its ammunition in a car unattended even for a minute. ? deserves to be prosecuted”

That’s the way it is like it or not. With the Publics and Authorities constant reviewing of Firearm law and security in the light of the Dunblane, Cumbria and Tyneside shootings the Home Office will be looking at these type of security incidents with a really thick magnifying glass in the years ahead and it may well prevent sensible people from obtaining a Shotgun or FAC as easily as it appears to be now.