bignoel Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 i had a back gun to me and i noticed he pulled out a rather nice looking sbs shotti so i asked him later what type it was as it looked stunning from where i was .he then gave me the run down on it he bought this gun in in need of a little TLC he had the barrels redone fireing mechanics redone he then had it restocked to match another sbs he had bought then to top it he was given a book which featured the pair of guns in it adding 5k to the value of the guns . they are both no less than 100 years old . he said to me you have a eye for a good gun noel they are a matching pair of HOLLAND & HOLLANDS very very nice indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 its amazing when you see some old guns we were out a month or so ago and one of the big local landowners was there, he had a matched set of 6 Boss's I think it was. very nice but funnily enough he still had his favourite one despite them being identical Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 On are last day there was a fella with a matched pair of churchills, He really looked the part. At least He did untill the 1st drive started - couldnt shoot for **** Nice to see proper works of art still in use Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 its amazing when you see some old guns we were out a month or so ago and one of the big local landowners was there, he had a matched set of 6 Boss's I think it was. very nice but funnily enough he still had his favourite one despite them being identical Several years ago I had the privilage to shoot two drives with a Boss over and under . At the time the gun was valued at about 20 thousand pounds . The owner was a man who had a collection of some of the finest english guns I have ever seen and reconed that they should be used and not just looked at . Yes the thought did cross my mind to tuck the gun under my arm and leg it . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Personally I reckon it's a whole load of phoooey. A Rolls Royce costs £100k and a Mini costs £10k. You can look at the two cars and whilst the Rolls Royce is not ten times bigger than the mini, you can immediately notice that the Roller is substantially bigger, has a bigger engine and has more options and electrics than a space shuttle. A shotgun is an amazingly simple "tool". Most share the same dimensions and mechnical operation. What's the big deal? Oh, and this isn't sour grapes, if I won the lottery I would probably buy a shop full. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I shot recently with a friends 20g Charles Boswell valued at circa £20K. The most horrible little sodding thing I have ever had the misfortune to put to my shoulder, even with clay loads it kicked like a mule. He's now sold it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Personally I reckon it's a whole load of phoooey. A Rolls Royce costs £100k and a Mini costs £10k. You can look at the two cars and whilst the Rolls Royce is not ten times bigger than the mini, you can immediately notice that the Roller is substantially bigger, has a bigger engine and has more options and electrics than a space shuttle. A shotgun is an amazingly simple "tool". Most share the same dimensions and mechnical operation. What's the big deal? Oh, and this isn't sour grapes, if I won the lottery I would probably buy a shop full. the funny thing is where I beat we do see some expensive guns, the landowners two were valued at somewhere about 100K and they would never be cleaned if it wasn't for his keeper. He is going on 80 now and they get leaned up against fences dragged through brambles etc so not looked after at all. Its a different world but he didn't buy them just inherited them, he is the tightest bloke going drives an old peugeot 307 and will do till it dies and will then buy a new one. The guy with the Boss's has 13000 acres in Herts they were hand me down guns and will be handed down again when he dies so I guess what price do you put on a gun you inherit that lasts your lifetime. These guys shoot more than any of us as they have nothing else they have to do all winter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) It's a different world, when i bought my gun (Browning 525) i was told it will outlast me and I'll never shoot enough carts to wear it out. If i had the cash i would like to try.... but some of these old Boss, H&H purdeys have been used by 3-4 generations of shooters! Will probably last another 3-4 ok they may need a bit of work from time to time, what doesnt? But i do wonder how many named guns have been scrapped, ruined etc over the years? As far as i can tell use isnt what wears the guns out, it's misuse, not cleaning them, not oiling/greasing them etc, in regular use they will wear out springs, pins etc but these are easily replaced and are almost consumables... Edited February 3, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 About 15 years ago I bought an old Holland and Holland hammerless side by side - mutton chop circa 1900, not a fortune but £1500 - the gun is good and shoots straight from H&H made replacement 30" steel barrels. The stock isn't so good so I asked H&H for a restocking cost - £8-9K. So i'll manage with the one its got. Replacing firing pins costs about £2K from H&H so its stayed in the cabinet. I bought it for the odd special days shooting and will use it again next season until it passes on. It takes 2 and a half inch cartridges and is a No1 of a pair. Must follow that up with H&H sometime -interesting to find out who's they were! Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groach1234 Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Personally I reckon it's a whole load of phoooey. A Rolls Royce costs £100k and a Mini costs £10k. You can look at the two cars and whilst the Rolls Royce is not ten times bigger than the mini, you can immediately notice that the Roller is substantially bigger, has a bigger engine and has more options and electrics than a space shuttle. A shotgun is an amazingly simple "tool". Most share the same dimensions and mechnical operation. What's the big deal? Oh, and this isn't sour grapes, if I won the lottery I would probably buy a shop full. But there is so much more t it than being a tool. Its a work of art and british craftsmanship at its best, doubling up as a potentially strong investment. On another note, I know a man who owns a pair of hollands made in the 1930s and they are the most elegant guns I have ever seen or held. He had a pair of Purdeys before them that were stollen and he bought them when 40 and in owning a pair of best british guns for over 25 years has never done a days double gun shooting and I doubt he ever will. But always wanted a pair of british guns from his child hood so he does. Hes not a 'flash' man and takes one of them on local farm shoots every saturday throughout the season when not shooting else where. I have had the pleasure of using these guns and they are truly wonderful to handle but to shoot this was not the case. They kicked like a mule but this may be because they were half an inch too short and had a very strong right hand cast and im left handed no the less it was a pleasure to be able to use them. It spurs me on and one day I will have a pair like them. George Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 I do appreciate seeing "best" guns, but I wouldn't own a gun that I was afraid to take into the woods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Stick a Rolls Royce next to a shotty, both are worth £100k but at least with the Rolls I could begin to see and understand where the technology, craftsmanship and money actually went Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 You can't compare a rolls to a mini; a rolls to a Jaguar or high-end mercedes maybe! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duncan Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 Stick a Rolls Royce next to a shotty, both are worth £100k but at least with the Rolls I could begin to see and understand where the technology, craftsmanship and money actually went Fair point Mungeler. There is a genuine economic term of 'snob value' and it definitely applies with over-priced antiques such as £100k shotguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 It's more the gushing that goes on about what is an old shotgun; barrels, stock, forend and action. By the simplicity of it's component parts I can't get that excited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 3, 2011 Report Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Stick a Rolls Royce next to a shotty, both are worth £100k but at least with the Rolls I could begin to see and understand where the technology, craftsmanship and money actually went Indeed, but in 50 years the Pair of H&H, Purdeys etc may well still be worth more the rolls may be too but more likely if you've used it....£30k ish? there's loads on autotrader for Under £10k cheapest pair of Purdeys on guntrader are £27k. (there is only one pair listed and 76 rollers under £10k) Its down to people you can pay £100k for a watch! Edited February 4, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I do appreciate seeing "best" guns, but I wouldn't own a gun that I was afraid to take into the woods. thats where the big difference between new money and old money comes in, new money buys them for the snob value and to make a big thing about, old money treats them like most of us would a Baikal or Hatsan. Mungler Its similar to antiques and buying expensive paintings etc most of us wouldn't but someone has to own them and usually has done for long enough to not appreciate what they are worth, the finest guns are hand made and take a long time to make which is where the cost comes from, hard to appreciate these days but having a craftsman spend months making something doesn't happen with many things these days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Alex, I get the craftsman bit but I struggle to understand the price. A chum of mine has just bought a coach built Rolls Royce Corniche Convertible. In good nick in summer they can fetch £40-50k. I "get" the price and value of that - I "get" the sheer volume and quantity of man hours and quality materials that went into that car and the resultant price tag. Hand made by craftsmen and engineers, half a forest of burr walnut inside, eight cows across the interior and an engine that wouldn't look out of place in a Spitfire. The bloke that put it together has his name on a plaque under the bonnet, and probably had a brown coat and a beard. They don't make Rolls Royce Corniche Convertibles anymore and so they are in diminishing supply. Now then, take a brand new Boss or Purdey. I don't understand how the price tag is realistic or reflective of what has gone into the end product. I suppose the same goes for high end watches but then they would at least have a gold and precious stone raw material / component part value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I guess its in the detail and labour, watches are probably as close as you can get as a comparison, I sort of get it but I couldn't own one your rolls royce guy puts it together and I guess the man at Holland and Holland etc actually makes most of it rather than just assembling but when you compare a gun to say a house its very hard to see where the money goes. But then some paintings at 50 million plus are pretty hard to justify so I guess there is a big element of supply and demand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Supply, demand, exclusivity and desire there is a certain amount of price manipulation culturally we value certain things higher than others and have a desire for certain things where the cost is not always the same % of the price. Any emotive purchase (versus essential purchase) is very variable to the individual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treestalker Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 I love to see the old guns still being used and not cased away as investments. I pick up on a big high bird shoot where the syndicate members each pay £30K a year to shoot there. £100K guns don't seem that expensive in comparison do they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted February 4, 2011 Report Share Posted February 4, 2011 Stick a Rolls Royce next to a shotty, both are worth £100k but at least with the Rolls I could begin to see and understand where the technology, craftsmanship and money actually went You would need to watch a proper gun being made to appreciate where the money goes, most of it in paying for skilled labour. These things take years to make by hand - not minutes by a machine. They are owned by people who carry them sleeved to a peg, get them out then sleeve them again, they don't see the sort of use 'tool' guns get. Yes they cost a bomb, but most get handed down through generations, probably appreciating all the while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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