Starting reloading - cost check

[Barney86]

I am tempted to get into reloading. I've read that it isn't worth it for clay shooting, but I want to check it out anyway - I think I'd enjoy it, and could probably rattle off enough for the weekend while the other half is watching TV. Ideally I would be able to load 21/24g loads for normal practice without paying more than 28g!

 

Anyhow. To the point.

 

Prices adjusted to /1000 (guessing under 28g loads, 20 odd grains. Rough guess, not done enough reading to know what I would need yet). Prices based on a couple of websites;

 

powder - 45

primer - 35

shot - 100

wads - 26

 

I don't see any bulk savings that could substantially reduce the costs.

 

 

Soooo, that's over 200 quid for 1000. I wasn't expecting home loads to be cheap, but more expensive was a surprise!

 

Is the cost I've worked out about right? Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks!

[highseas]

the only way you will save mony is if you make your own shot and buy in bulk. i re use plastic wads for my heavy loads and get good patterns with them so thats one cost down, shot makeing is the inly way to save

[Andy H]

Give us a clue to what primers and powder and other components you are using on your costings, the major saving is in making your own lead shot and not having the p... taken out of you on that retail costing .

FC is the ultimate cost saver on reloading sg.

[fruitloop]

andy h is right its the shot that kills it home made is dependent on the price u get the scrap at so if free then its the price of the ether electric or gas depending on the type of shotmaker you have so minimal. its the seting up cost that puts folk off as you spend £££ for all the parts and then look at them and think what the hell av i spent all that cash on !!!!. but when you start putting them together and shooting them the sens of i made that as you are taking the clays or pigions down.plus a tweek hear a tweek there and you have the right load for yourself.

 

my original shotmaker was gas and still got 3/4 of the bottle left after about making 70kg of shot now its electric that cost me about £4 to make from old cooker parts so that costs the same to run as a single ring on yr cooker! dont buy the cheep rings of flebay thay blow after 20min .

 

fc is the top man for reloading what he dont know is not worth knowing.

Edited February 12, 2011 by fruitloop

[sitsinhedges]

andy h is right its the shot that kills it home made is dependent on the price u get the scrap at so if free then its the price of the ether electric or gas depending on the type of shotmaker you have so minimal. its the seting up cost that puts folk off as you spend £££ for all the parts and then look at them and think what the hell av i spent all that cash on !!!!. but when you start putting them together and shooting them the sens of i made that as you are taking the clays or pigions down.plus a tweek hear a tweek there and you have the right load for yourself.

 

my original shotmaker was gas and still got 3/4 of the bottle left after about making 70kg of shot now its electric that cost me about £4 to make from old cooker parts so that costs the same to run as a single ring on yr cooker! dont buy the cheep rings of flebay thay blow after 20min .

 

fc is the top man for reloading what he dont know is not worth knowing.

 

The reason rings blow is that over a period of time the porcelain insulation within absorbs moisture and when heated turns to steam. This creates a short and trips out your fusebox. It happens to all elements that have sat around unused for a while

 

The answer is to warm them thoroughly in the oven for a couple of hours to clear all this moisture

[fruitloop]

good tip ty andy but thay was new in seld bags

[sitsinhedges]

good tip ty andy but thay was new in seld bags

 

Same here and warming them cured it.

 

It was a tip given to me by a sparkie friend of mine when I had problems with them.

 

Can take a bit of work but once they get red on their own they are sorted.

[fruitloop]

thay was red when thay blue

p.s. this man also knows what he is talking about (sitsinhedges)

Edited February 12, 2011 by fruitloop

[sitsinhedges]

thay was red when thay blue

p.s. this man also knows what he is talking about (sitsinhedges)

 

Bear with it, once the insides are properly dry they'll be no more problems but moisture has to work its way back out thru the tails so may take a bit of time.

 

You'll also find they are far less likely to burn out if they have a controller attached so they're not working at 100% constantly.

[ace32]

hiya,any one know where to get a decent shot maker for 12g and 410,or do they make both with one machine,cheer,s ian

ps,and a link to some where i could get the full set up,for both,cheer,s ian

[sitsinhedges]

hiya,any one know where to get a decent shot maker for 12g and 410,or do they make both with one machine,cheer,s ian

ps,and a link to some where i could get the full set up,for both,cheer,s ian

 

A shotmaker makes shot, it isn't a reloading press.

[Barney86]

@Andy H:

I just scrolled down the list at http://www.peterlawman.co.uk/shotshell.php for rough pricing.

 

@Everyone else:

I hadn't considered DIY shot! I am quite hands-on, so might have a crack at building a shot maker and study the results before I put any real cash money into the mix. I've just seen a couple of vids on YouTube and the process doesn't look too complicated.

 

Are there any recommended books on the subject? I know enough to have a good crack at this, (can probably work out the grading & spherical testing bits too) but some form of metallurgy knowledge would probably be helpful so I'm throwing something a bit harder than lead flashing ;-)

 

 

Cheers folks!

[fruitloop]

hi andy it has a controler on it i found a guy that strips cookers and he lets me have them at £1 each

barny you may have seen mine on there

[Guest cookoff013]

FC should actually rent out his shot !

 

i`ve been looking into the loads the manufacturers use, and what is the powder type and powder charge. i wouldnt reload to save money, i`d reload for a better cartridge. i only do small runs of cartridges, it would be the equivalent of buying several different boxes of shells.

 

i would certainly use VECTAN AS for loads up to 1oz, the less powder you use is a good way of initially saving money. most of the recipes on the manufacturers websites are sugested maximum loadings, you dont need to load up to the manufacturers or the industry maximum.

 

for instance, i think that 24g cartridges, should use 16-20 grains of vectan AS ,-please verify any data. that isnt actually a recipe.

 

there is no point in wasting time making a cartridge and the shot crawls out of the barrel. there is no point at all.

 

vectan A1 can handle 1oz loads, and push them faster, (maybe a grain or so more powder.) but it can do it more efficiently.

 

one of my favourite powders is hodgdon titewad, it is an unbelieveably fast powder, it will push 21g loads very fast, but cant push 32g loads slow, it just produces high pressure. i use them in my subsonics. vectan as can be used in a subsonic 32g load.

 

i`ve seen some recipes for loads that i wouldnt even touch with a barge pole.

 

take the AS recipe from nobelsport italia. 22 grains-1oz lead. then someone uses 24 grains because of a fibre wad, then a grain extra for cold weather.

when 17 or so grains of A1 could do the job alot better and save 8 grains of powder. and not have high pressure issues.

that saves 1/3rd your powder cost. just by selecting a comfortable powder for the shot load.

 

never ever exceed the powder or the shot drop.

[sitsinhedges]

FC should actually rent out his shot !

 

i`ve been looking into the loads the manufacturers use, and what is the powder type and powder charge. i wouldnt reload to save money, i`d reload for a better cartridge. i only do small runs of cartridges, it would be the equivalent of buying several different boxes of shells.

 

i would certainly use VECTAN AS for loads up to 1oz, the less powder you use is a good way of initially saving money. most of the recipes on the manufacturers websites are sugested maximum loadings, you dont need to load up to the manufacturers or the industry maximum.

 

for instance, i think that 24g cartridges, should use 16-20 grains of vectan AS ,-please verify any data. that isnt actually a recipe.

 

there is no point in wasting time making a cartridge and the shot crawls out of the barrel. there is no point at all.

 

vectan A1 can handle 1oz loads, and push them faster, (maybe a grain or so more powder.) but it can do it more efficiently.

 

one of my favourite powders is hodgdon titewad, it is an unbelieveably fast powder, it will push 21g loads very fast, but cant push 32g loads slow, it just produces high pressure. i use them in my subsonics. vectan as can be used in a subsonic 32g load.

 

i`ve seen some recipes for loads that i wouldnt even touch with a barge pole.

 

take the AS recipe from nobelsport italia. 22 grains-1oz lead. then someone uses 24 grains because of a fibre wad, then a grain extra for cold weather.

when 17 or so grains of A1 could do the job alot better and save 8 grains of powder. and not have high pressure issues.

that saves 1/3rd your powder cost. just by selecting a comfortable powder for the shot load.

 

never ever exceed the powder or the shot drop.

 

Can you show us some of the data for loads with less lead using vectan A1 it could save me having to buy different powders.

 

I currently use 20.5 grains of AS with 24 or 28 gram of shot. I wont state the velocity I get because I will get called a back street ballistics expert with mickey mouse equipment again :yp: You know who you are

 

I use 18grains of A1 with 28grams of shot in 20gauge fibre and 23.5 grains of A1 for a 32gram plastic load in 12gauge.

 

EDIT: The only 28gram load I can find for A1 uses 27grains in 12gauge with a fibre wad and the stated speed is 1151 fps. WRT velocity A1 appears to be quite a slow powder all round compared to AS from what I can gather so I don't see how it would replace AS for the lower weight 12g loads

Edited February 12, 2011 by sitsinhedges

[Floating Chamber]

Can you show us some of the data for loads with less lead using vectan A1 it could save me having to buy different powders.

 

I currently use 20.5 grains of AS with 24 or 28 gram of shot. I wont state the velocity I get because I will get called a back street ballistics expert with mickey mouse equipment again :yp: You know who you are

 

I use 18grains of A1 with 28grams of shot in 20gauge fibre and 23.5 grains of A1 for a 32gram plastic load in 12gauge.

 

EDIT: The only 28gram load I can find for A1 uses 27grains in 12gauge with a fibre wad and the stated speed is 1151 fps. WRT velocity A1 appears to be quite a slow powder all round compared to AS from what I can gather so I don't see how it would replace AS for the lower weight 12g loads

 

Well? Get yourself a lead crusher!

[sitsinhedges]

Well? Get yourself a lead crusher!

 

No point, they're tested recipes and that wont tell me the velocity

[fruitloop]

Well? Get yourself a lead crusher!

hi fc this may be a daft question but what is a lead crusher!?

[Guest cookoff013]

i`ve got some data sheets that state 24grains A1 28g shot, 27 grains too. compared to the 23 grains of AS.

 

so it is one more grain, but my data set doesnt state pressure or speed.

 

the 24grain A1 will also do 32g loads. data is missing for that too. but all have the hot type cx2000 primer.

 

i`ve got a 26grain load A1, that is 1oz 1200fps, at 600bar the lower grain AS loads are not that speed.

[sitsinhedges]

i`ve got some data sheets that state 24grains A1 28g shot, 27 grains too. compared to the 23 grains of AS.

 

so it is one more grain, but my data set doesnt state pressure or speed.

 

the 24grain A1 will also do 32g loads. data is missing for that too. but all have the hot type cx2000 primer.

 

i`ve got a 26grain load A1, that is 1oz 1200fps, at 600bar the lower grain AS loads are not that speed.

 

But where are the savings that you suggested earlier against 20 grains of AS

 

In relative terms AS seems to push the shot out much faster for less powder. 20 grains will comfortably achieve the same 1200 fps that your 26grains of A1 will.

 

I can't see where the 17grains of A1 replacing 24 grains of AS that you stated earlier fits in to this

Edited February 13, 2011 by sitsinhedges

[Guest cookoff013]

my data states 20grains AS only pushes 1100fps. compared to the 26 grains A1 at 1200fps and lower pressure. i thought there would be some savings, but not after looking into it. A1 does give a faster shell.

[sitsinhedges]

my data states 20grains AS only pushes 1100fps. compared to the 26 grains A1 at 1200fps and lower pressure. i thought there would be some savings, but not after looking into it. A1 does give a faster shell.

 

I have found 20.5 of AS to give 1250 or so fps with 24 or 28 gram loads, certainly faster than anything I've loaded with A1. None of my recipes are maxed out so who knows what is possible, but A1 just seems to be more comfortable at a slightly slower speed.

Edited February 13, 2011 by sitsinhedges

[kdubya]

I use vectan AS my bushings give an exact 20.7 powder with a 1oz shot load,cracking pigeon load with size 6 shot, A1 however is a slower burning powder good for magnum loads, did not work well at all for me in lighter loads,

KW

[Guest cookoff013]

A1 just seems to be more comfortable at a slightly slower speed.

i`m not disagreeing with you on that, its more comfortable with higher payloads, it keeps the pressure up. it is best when used for 30g and 32g loads. i`ve seen some loads for 36-40 grams with this stuff.

 

i`m certain that the highest shot loads the pressure is at max and the shot crawling out the barrel.

 

all powders have an optimal load speed. "alliant steel" needs 24 grams of steel shot, to burn, but the same powder charge can run 42g steel loads.

 

tecna is a real odd one, it can run slugs, 36g-56g shot, 28-32g steel shot, and run the smaller gauges really well, especially the 20gauge, and 28gauge

 

i never even considered AS, as the speeds were low. i might just give it a whirl. i have also noticed they produced some steel data for it as well !

[aliengravy]

Where are you all getting these AS recipes from? Ive got loads of AS sat here i use for subs, and i cant find any recipes on the bloomin stuff!!

 

Some links or PMS would be super appreciated!!