PCP Airguns?

[wildfowler.250]

Hi, I was wondering if some of the airgun hunters on here could give me some advice please?

 

I have a Wiehrauch 77K .22 which has accounted for more than its fair share of vermin. However I have always fancied using a PCP,(particually as springers don't work off a bipod and I like shooting prone).

 

My main problem is that you basically have to get a massive divers bottle which costs a lot? And also, how easy is it to find somewhere to fill this when your airgun needs a topping up and the bottle is empty? How many times can you normally fill the gun up before the bottle runs out? (I realise the size of the bottle on the gun will make a difference to this).

 

I shoot quite a lot of rabbits in the summer but also a fair whack of crows and a few pigeons when I get a chance. I like the looks of the Wiehrauch Thumbhole...and I haven't heard a bad word about them yet? but are they too solid/heavy for shooting up into trees? My other thought was an Air Arms S410? Any thoughts on these two guns would be great!

 

Now, I would normally go for a .22. Is there much more benefits to the .177? I realise it shoots flatter but by how much? does it have less knock down power? More accurate? I notice you get less shots per fill compaired to the .22

 

also what sort of price am I looking at for a second hand HW100 set up? K or Thumbhole? I notice quite a few come up for sale on here. Is there any particular reason for this?

 

 

I will do a fair bit of searching on here but any help is very much appreciated!

 

 

Cheers

[northeastshooter]

you could go for the other option on apump i picked a second hand 1 up 2years ago for 50 pound only takes afew mins to fill the gun it helps if you dnt want to go and get the bottle filled up all the time or your local gun shop would probly fill your gun up for 2pound. as for 177 v 22 its up to you total on what you perfer a 177 still can take out a rabits crows rabbits what ever bout and doesnt drop as much i shoot 177 but its up to you the other advantage of pcp is silencers makes them alot quiter as well

[deputy dog]

Any of the Air Arms, Rapid and HW range of PCP rifles will do the job. Its all according to your budget. If your budget isn't hindered

and cash is ready at hand, i would defo go for any of the Rapid range or HW 100. If your budgeted any of the air arms S410 /510 or

some opt for the BSA R10 which supposed to be a great little gun now all the faults on the earlier models have been rectified.

 

As for caliber to have, well that my friend is up to you. .22 hits harder but has a much bendier trajectory, .177 though flys faster

and very much flatter in trajectory, making it more accurate, in good to medium weather conditions. All will shoot very well of a bipod though

or rest off any tree branch, stump or fence.

 

Hope you enjoy what you buy

 

DD

 

Ps

 

Have a look at the trade post on here, i'm sure i seen a few Rapids an Air arms on there with tanks an scope in the

package for a decent second hand price. Worth having a peek mate.

Edited February 12, 2011 by deputy dog

[Pigeon Popper]

Personally I see little point in opting for calibers larger than .177 for an air rifle which is restricted to less than 12 ft/lb of energy. Unless you want a slightly lighter cocking cycle on your springer, or ~15% more shots from your PCP...

 

Don't listen to me, there are much more knowledgeable members of this forum.

Edited February 13, 2011 by Pigeon Popper

[vampire]

Either of the rifles you mentioned would be well up to your quarry list,i have owned AA 410 .177 CLASSIC (bigger cylinder) 10 shot,it was a fantastic bit of kit with a sweet spot between 100-180 bar,anything above or below this and you entered into .22 world with a loopy trajectory,but even with 80bar usable you still get more than enough (ashton try come on england)where was i ,pressure for an evenings rabbitting.

There is a classic .177 advertised in the sales section on here,what ever you settle on make sure its a .177 it shoots further so why would you want to limit your range with a .22,get a multi shot,get a cylinder unless your budget dictates a pump,make sure your rifle has a guage on it.

The only thing i would say against the AA 410 (best gun 12flbs),is that you MUST wipe the bluing after every trip out or it will rust and the bolt is a bit stiff for the first 500/1000 shots.

Once you have a pcp rifle you will never go back to a springer again other than for nostalgia.

I have it all written down somewhere but i had mine zeroed at 40 yrds and it would be shoot flat between 30-50 yrds.

The tank i had was faber 7 ltr 232 bar and cost £3 to fill and i think it did about a tin of pellets or more !

Make sure you try before you buy

[wildfowler.250]

Thanks for the replies! keep them coming!

 

do the manual pumps work on all PCPs? I noticed that some of the H100s have a quick fill adaptor but I'm not entirely sure as to what thats for? I'm assuming you attach the bottle to it but whats the difference to the ones without the quick fill option?

 

I tend to like to go for second hand as you sometimes get a good buy. I usually go for the best option I can,(otherwise I tend to buy cheap buy twice ect). Which rapid is the most popular? the 7 or the S-type? I have to say in all honesty though, I think I owuld prefer the HW

 

So I guess .177 makes more sense at the moment. Is it worth getting a FAC .22? Getting it granted shouldn't be a problem but is all the extra paper work/lower shot count worth it for how much further distance? more noise??

 

Cheers

[FalconFN]

If you didn't want to have a bottle you could get a Rapid 7, they will give you 200(?) or so shots before you will need a refill from a gun shop. I'd go for .177 as they are easier to judge holdover etc and will extend your range by 5-10 yards. ie. At 11.5 ft/lbs with a mid weight pellet and the scope zeroed at 35 yards, the pellet will hit within 1/2" of the cross hairs from 10 to 40 yards.

[wildfowler.250]

Either of the rifles you mentioned would be well up to your quarry list,i have owned AA 410 .177 CLASSIC (bigger cylinder) 10 shot,it was a fantastic bit of kit with a sweet spot between 100-180 bar,anything above or below this and you entered into .22 world with a loopy trajectory,but even with 80bar usable you still get more than enough (ashton try come on england)where was i ,pressure for an evenings rabbitting.

There is a classic .177 advertised in the sales section on here,what ever you settle on make sure its a .177 it shoots further so why would you want to limit your range with a .22,get a multi shot,get a cylinder unless your budget dictates a pump,make sure your rifle has a guage on it.

The only thing i would say against the AA 410 (best gun 12flbs),is that you MUST wipe the bluing after every trip out or it will rust and the bolt is a bit stiff for the first 500/1000 shots.

Once you have a pcp rifle you will never go back to a springer again other than for nostalgia.

I have it all written down somewhere but i had mine zeroed at 40 yrds and it would be shoot flat between 30-50 yrds.

The tank i had was faber 7 ltr 232 bar and cost £3 to fill and i think it did about a tin of pellets or more !

Make sure you try before you buy

 

Sorry I missed your post when I was typing my reply

 

Should I worry about trying something before I buy it if I'm looking online? Or do you mean just handle them in the shops? Has anyone had any problems with either the air arms or the hw100,(apart from the bluing)? Also a price range for a bottle and also the different guns would be brilliant

 

I make that another vote for .177 :yp:

[RC45]

Rapid 7 gets my vote. Get a spare bottle to extend your shooting time. As above, sub 12 ftlbs I would go for .177 and for FAC .25 Calibre.

[anim al]

hi,

i've had an s10 john bowkett blueprinted .177 and a aa s410 .177

but i still use my hw 100 .22,its every bit as accurate as a .177 you just need to know your gun and get used to the trajectory.

it will put pellet on pellet,,you cant get more accurate than that.

it is supposed to be easier with .177,,but i just dont get on with them.

in either calibre any of the guns mentioned will be more accurate than the person using them,all cracking rifles

 

cheers al

[northeastshooter]

you get a filling probe or adapter that u attach to either fill bottel or pump just got a daystate huntsman 177 set the zero after the last message and get half in groups at 40 yards naw

[Dekers]

If you want FAC air the only reason it will be granted is Vermin Control, so .177 isn't much of an issue, .20 doesn't enter the frame generally, and .25 is pretty useless in any power except for rats at low power and close. If you want a FAC .25 you will need massive power, as the best pellets are around 30+g and expensive, shot count is a joke!

 

Go for .22 running between 25-30ft lb, it will give you a decent shot count in virtually all makes of PCP and will also give you a decent pellet choice.

 

Anything much over 30ft lb and a lot of pellets become unstable (inaccurate).

 

If you want more than this get a .22lr

 

Now then, what was the question?

 

ATB!

Edited February 12, 2011 by Dekers

[bruno22rf]

If you bide your time and buy second hand then a tank is a wise investment.Go for a 3ltr 300 bar and you dont have to worry about lugging a huge lump about.Bought mine for £75 in alluminium-decant kit was £25 off this site and adapter came with the gun.Of the guns you mention i would personally go for the AA s410 because they are common and theres plenty to choose from-plus i,ve not heard many people say bad things about them-i,ve had 3 different guns from the AA stable and been amazed at the Icapabilities and quality of them.PIGEON POPPER=would love to read the reasons why you have come to your conclusions i.e. "cant see the point of anything larger than a .177 in a sub 12 flb airgun"

Edited February 12, 2011 by bruno22rf

[vampire]

If you want FAC air the only reason it will be granted is Vermin Control, so .177 isn't much of an issue, .20 doesn't enter the frame generally, and .25 is pretty useless in any power except for rats at low power and close. If you want a FAC .25 you will need massive power, as the best pellets are around 30+g and expensive, shot count is a joke!

 

Go for .22 running between 25-30ft lb, it will give you a decent shot count in virtually all makes of PCP and will also give you a decent pellet choice.

 

Anything much over 30ft lb and a lot of pellets become unstable (inaccurate).

 

If you want more than this get a .22lr

 

Now then, what was the question?

 

ATB!

Dekers is spot on here as always,if you get a sub 12flbs get a .177 but to shoot any further get a fac .22 which as far as my cert says you will be able to shoot anywhere that the 12flbs can and i think the rifles in fac are a bit cheaper to buy,you will then have the cheapest form of shooting possible.

 

I said,'try before you buy'because to spend a lot of money on a gun that you have no personal knowledge of and only having advice over the internet is a bit of a gamble,buy second hand but see if someone near you has the rifle you are after that you can have a shoot with so you can see if it matches your expectations,as air rifles are all different,or see if the dealer has a demo rifle you could borrow.

[The Duncan]

Hi, I was wondering if some of the airgun hunters on here could give me some advice please?

 

I have a Wiehrauch 77K .22 which has accounted for more than its fair share of vermin. However I have always fancied using a PCP,(particually as springers don't work off a bipod and I like shooting prone).

 

My main problem is that you basically have to get a massive divers bottle which costs a lot? And also, how easy is it to find somewhere to fill this when your airgun needs a topping up and the bottle is empty? How many times can you normally fill the gun up before the bottle runs out? (I realise the size of the bottle on the gun will make a difference to this).

 

I shoot quite a lot of rabbits in the summer but also a fair whack of crows and a few pigeons when I get a chance. I like the looks of the Wiehrauch Thumbhole...and I haven't heard a bad word about them yet? but are they too solid/heavy for shooting up into trees? My other thought was an Air Arms S410? Any thoughts on these two guns would be great!

 

Now, I would normally go for a .22. Is there much more benefits to the .177? I realise it shoots flatter but by how much? does it have less knock down power? More accurate? I notice you get less shots per fill compaired to the .22

 

also what sort of price am I looking at for a second hand HW100 set up? K or Thumbhole? I notice quite a few come up for sale on here. Is there any particular reason for this?

 

 

I will do a fair bit of searching on here but any help is very much appreciated!

 

 

Cheers

 

Ok CZ452 (good gun itself ), point by point:

 

If you have a HW springer and are accounting for plenty of vermin with it already (been there with .22 95K and cleaned up!), then DON'T expect a huge difference in your bag TBH just because your new gun is recoilless. My bag only increased marginally when I went for the HW100S full length, even though the 100 is an absolute tack driver out to very, very respectable ranges. I went for .177 (having been a lifelong .22 fan).

Shooting off a 'pod with the 100 (and other pcp's) is an eye opener too - fantastically accurate.

AA S410 or HW100? Depends if you like a light or heavier rifle really. The autoload system on the 100 is second to none and the secondary air chamber acts like a regulator, which means no power curve. In my 100, I get 110 full power shots (200 down to 90 bar) with no variation in elevation whatsoever. Tree shots? The heft does make it very steady on aim and I usually lean against something solid if poss for high shots. You'll probably hit more tree critters with a .177 than with a .22 as the less curved trajectory makes it less likely that your pellet will connect with twigs etc, again IMO and in my experience. I find its easier to thread shots between branches with a .177.

Incidentally, all my hunting rifles end up with a sling and swivels - essential I feel.

.177 Shoots significantly flatter than a .22 and I hunt 10 yards further with a .177 compared to a .22. From a practical viewpoint, I zero mine at 37 yards which gives about a 1/2 inch elevation difference in POI between 18 and 42 yards - within the kill zone easily so it is a more forgiving calibre when it comes to errors in range estimation. Higher penetration than a .22 but less perceived shock value - I feel the .22 hits harder and allows a slightly (emphasis on slight) better margin for error on rabbits for example. Basically you can be a few mil less accurate at target and still get an instant knock down, in my experience.

I found overkill (where the pellet passes through the quarry and imparts less energy) can occur at shorter ranges in .177, say 20 yards or less, so you have to be spit accurate at these closer ranges, or select the bunny that is over 25 yards away.

Why aparently so many HW100's for sale? Possibly some find them too heavy and find they prefer something with a bit less heft.

 

Anyway, that's my input

 

Cheers Duncan.

 

I used to have a pump, but didn't fancy a heart attack so got a 7 litre 300 bar tank - about 130 quid if I remember correctly. When I'm using the air rifle a lot (several times per week) I have to have the tank refilled twice a year - £2.50 per time from my local dive shop.

It's very easy to master

[The Duncan]

So I guess .177 makes more sense at the moment. Is it worth getting a FAC .22? Getting it granted shouldn't be a problem but is all the extra paper work/lower shot count worth it for how much further distance? more noise??

 

Cheers

I went for fac air first then swapped for rimfire - up to 45 yards I take the HW100 in 12fpe .177.

Longer ranges than 45 yards I use the rimmie anyway.

If quarry is on the move it gets the 12 bore

[The Duncan]

Personally I see little point in opting for calibers larger than .177 for an air rifle which is restricted to less than 12 ft/lb of energy. Unless you want a slightly lighter cocking cycle on your springer, or ~15% more shots from your PCP...

With springers, I have always felt that .22s went off that bit sweeter with softer recoil.

And yes the cocking cycle is slightly lighter - not that I've ever found that to be an issue.

 

Cheers

 

Duncan

[Albion]

Having stuck with .22 for years, I bought a .177 PCP last year. It was a bit of a revelation really, and I slightly wish my HW100 was .177 instead of .22. That said, I agree with Duncan, that .22 springers are generally a little sweeter, although every gun is different. Actually I find PCPs a bit insipid, but they are ruthlessly efficient as a hunting rifle.

[The Duncan]

Actually I find PCPs a bit insipid, but they are ruthlessly efficient as a hunting rifle.

 

I know what you mean. And 'ruthlessly efficient' is a fitting description for an HW100!

 

Duncan

[Pigeon Popper]

I used to have a pump, but didn't fancy a heart attack so got a 7 litre 300 bar tank - about 130 quid if I remember correctly. When I'm using the air rifle a lot (several times per week) I have to have the tank refilled twice a year - £2.50 per time from my local dive shop.

It's very easy to master

That infrequently? :o I've never owned an PCP so I had no idea, how many shots do you reckon you're getting from each fill from the Scuba shop?

[The Duncan]

TBH, thousands? Must be 1000-1500 shots per fill (?!) Honestly, as i've very rarely had to fill my bottle, I've not been bothered to work it out as the cost is negligible.

 

Bare in mind that the HW100 is quite efficient with its air-use/power/shots numbers.

Mine is making 11.8 fpe with AA field, 4.52's and has single figure shot to shot consistency.

 

Duncan

[Pigeon Popper]

With springers, I have always felt that .22s went off that bit sweeter with softer recoil.

And yes the cocking cycle is slightly lighter - not that I've ever found that to be an issue.

 

Cheers

 

Duncan

No it's an advantage. Because .22s are considerably heavier (usually around 90%,) than their .177 equivalents, a lower velocity is required to achieve the same muzzle energy. This phenomenon is also why a sub 12 ft/lb PCP will have more shots in its .22 variant.

 

If you would like me to substantiate my prior statement regarding my preference for .177s I can - although please note that I meant only for legal limit rifles.

[Pigeon Popper]

TBH, thousands? Must be 1000-1500 shots per fill (?!) Honestly, as i've very rarely had to fill my bottle, I've not been bothered to work it out as the cost is negligible.

 

Bare in mind that the HW100 is quite efficient with its air-use/power/shots numbers.

Mine is making 11.8 fpe with AA field, 4.52's and has single figure shot to shot consistency.

 

Duncan

That is very impressive - German engineering always is!

[The Duncan]

That is very impressive - German engineering always is!

The results down-range are equally impressive, even at 45 yards, off a 'pod, the groups are miniscule. Somewhere between 1 hole and cloverleaf, in still conditions of course.

 

Duncan :yp:

[bruno22rf]

"If you want me to substantiate...."-Yep-waiting here bright eyed and bushy tailed.I,m dying to hear the wealth of knowledge that you have gained since joining this site 2 days ago and admitting to having limited experience with a spring powered airgun and a .22 rimmie.Excuse my sledgehammer manner but your initial statement was so blinkered.

Edited February 13, 2011 by bruno22rf