More stopping power needed

[Catweazle]

A few different opinions here . Some people have suggested I was missing over or under, which of course is quite possible, but I think unlikely as the birds were flying directly away from me allowing me to easily aim carefully at them. But, this opens another possibility that I hadn't thought of before and I think is the most likely explanation.

 

I think I was taking too long to shoot, the birds were getting too far away from me without me realising and with open chokes the results were poor.

 

As is often the case, user error

[activeviii]

If you was bang on then you will still drop going away birds as you will take their wings out. if your plucking the birds then its either under or over on the pattern. as its a going away bird then it would suggest you are over the bird. remember that the angle of the bird is dropping as its going away. put the bird on top of your bead and lean into the shot so you dont have so much recoil pushing the barrel up on you.

 

you cant compare your friends success with a 20g of 5 and your dilemma with 12g of 6 as it could be something as simple as gun fit or, dare i say it, but he might be a better shot with a gun that fits well.

 

I shoot 28g of 7 in 12g semi auto with 1/2 choke for decoying and 30g of 6 in the same gun for flight and roost shooting. i a better than 2:1 ratio on the decoys with very few runners.

 

before wasting money on carts, try and get under the birds that are going away and see if it helps

 

regards

 

Phil

[dougall]

I'm with Burpster on this one.Any game bird shot from behind means more pentration needed(oh er Missus).Big clouds of feathers with pigeon actually can be just 1 or 2 pellets effectively shaving the the down from the chest.Having the birds come over your shoulder from behind is also one of the hardest shots as you have the least time,so you need to be quick to take them within effective range.But within 40 yards with a good cartridge,and there is nothing wrong with Express,should suffice.Don't shoot at ones beyond that range from that angle though as clearly you are not killing them cleanly.I would also consider leaving your pattern where it is BUT moving your hide 30 yards so that more are quartering away than straight away,that way you should see more of head/neck/crop exposed.

[semi]

I went through the same problem with many birds dropping feathers but flying on. I took out a novice friend over some spring barley drilling the other day and we had 200 shots (with 30 gram 6s and 28 gram 6.5s) but the picked bag of 50 failed to represent such a good days sport. I returned alone to solve the problem last week and played with chokes and loads. I found that a full choke did not necessarily help with fleeing birds which are difficult to hit in a strong wind anyhow as they would often be on the edge of the pattern. However, tightening the pattern to a half-choke rather than a 1/4 or full, and using 32gram 5-shot made a huge difference. Admittedly I was getting the first shot to count on a day of much slower sport but there were a few good left and rights, and a few very long range birds too. In my 20 years experience, 5 shot makes a huge difference in terms of penetration when shooting birds from behind. Up the load to fill out the pattern if need be but I think the shot size is more important. The same combo of 1/2 choke and 32 gram 5 shot is killer for crows too!

Happy Hunting.

[Catweazle]

I recently saw the George Digweed video, linked to on this site. He has developed his ultimate pigeon load of 34grm No5. I realise that he will have the skill to hit birds way, way further out than me, so he will need bigger shot, but it got me wondering about the number of shot in a cartridge. As recoil is not a problem for me I reckon 34g of 5 has got to be better than 28g of 6.

 

So, a quick visit to my localish gunshop ( John Forseys ) turns up Express Supreme Game 34g 5s. I've used the 30g 6s before, and they're nice to shoot, hopefully the 34g will be as good. Expensive for a pigeon shoot, but what the hell.

 

While I was there I mentioned that I was having trouble finding a mid choke for my 101, Phil has a rummage in his box of oddments and pulls out a 3/4 Imp Mod choke which he says I can have. Result.

 

I also bought a Beretta AL390, I couldn't resist it, it just felt so good

[harpoonlouis]

I watched the George Digweed too, that last shot nearly made me give up shooting!

 

George said the load was meant to be good from 25 yards to 80yds!

 

Shot size increases momentum ( mass x velocity)due to the higher weight of shot but drag goes up with decreased shot number due to the large cross section so what increases the enegy imparted by the shot rise significantly is velocity as energy delivered goes up as the square of the velocity ( 1/2 mass x veocity X velocity) So yes a heavier pellet gives a bit more energy strike but a higher velocity at the point of impact has much more effect.

 

The enemy of impact energy is distance since shot speed drops from nigh on 800mph ( 1200fps) to zero and is down on the deck in a few seconds less than 275 from the gun.

 

Spread of the pattern also increases dramatically after about 30 yards so the gaps get correspondingly bigger just when you need more pellets not less to do the business. Distance does for a clean kill every time.

 

Bottom line is that you will struggle for a clean kill for two reasons only.

 

You shot the wrong piece of sky and missed or you shot too late and distance killed the energy and the pattern.

 

George makes those hideously expensive cartriges pay by hitting more birds than anyone else alive!

[bigchap]

32g 6 1/2 does the trick for me, i use an old baikal with 3" off the barrels to lose the choke.nothing out to 50 yards escapes.

[tlennox]

You've got to remember. pigeon down feathers are quite dense, so it only takes one size six shot to knock a puff of feathers from a bird, so as a lot of people have already said, tighter chokes, 30gramms+ and maybe size 5's may help you, but shot placement is key. Hit them with enough 28g 7 1/2's and they'll fold every time, not that I'd ever recommend it. Keep trying to find out works best for you, and have fun finding out.

[12borejimbo]

Strange, I had this a few weeks ago, Ikept hearing loads of strike, they would use all their energy in flying 50 yeards and then plummet into the ground, only a few did it, so I might try a heavier cartridge like no 5 as you mentioned.

But more than anything I found the crows to be getting a right stinging and keep flying. Heavier loads needed I think, I was using Eley 30g no6 realtree pigeon, my regular cartridge in my escort auto with 1/4 choke max range about 35/40 yards sometimes!

[Simon123]

Strange, I had this a few weeks ago, Ikept hearing loads of strike, they would use all their energy in flying 50 yeards and then plummet into the ground, only a few did it, so I might try a heavier cartridge like no 5 as you mentioned.

But more than anything I found the crows to be getting a right stinging and keep flying. Heavier loads needed I think, I was using Eley 30g no6 realtree pigeon, my regular cartridge in my escort auto with 1/4 choke max range about 35/40 yards sometimes!

 

Using no. 5 will be slightly harder to hit the bird rather than a no. 6 cartridge.

I would use some 32g or 34g no. 6 cartridges personally rather than a no 5 cartridge. Fiocchi no. 6 cartridges are great for pigeon, crow, and even rabbit shooting ;) . They get my choice every time, great little cartridges :good:

 

 

Ps, the escort is a great pigeon gun, cant wait to get mine.

[yickdaz]

its about the situation your shooting in;you wouldn;t use 34g or 36g 5 or 6 shooting over laid wheat or barley at 25 30 yards you be blowing them to bits;commonsense dictates what you use..these loads would best used on flighting woodies at distance plenty of pattern and stopping power up to 50/60 yards..my personal choice for almost all my pigeon shooting is 30g 6s. in 1/4 1/2 3/4 chokes.

[Catweazle]

Strange, I had this a few weeks ago, Ikept hearing loads of strike, they would use all their energy in flying 50 yeards and then plummet into the ground, only a few did it, so I might try a heavier cartridge like no 5 as you mentioned.

But more than anything I found the crows to be getting a right stinging and keep flying. Heavier loads needed I think, I was using Eley 30g no6 realtree pigeon, my regular cartridge in my escort auto with 1/4 choke max range about 35/40 yards sometimes!

 

Exactly my problem, a big "slap", cloud of feathers and the bird whistling over my head helped by the strong wind, then dropping on the road or over it. In the middle of a big field it wouldn't have been a problem, but with my back to the road it is. I'll just have to get more lead into them if I shoot that position again, 34g No5 should do it, hopefully this weekend.

[mtelfo]

I use 30g No.6 express super game! And highly rate them I was shooting high phesants with them a few weeks ago on the loyton estate in devon! And now hitting the pigeons with them! As said before your shooting just off or too far 30g 6's is more than enough for decoying in my opinion!