Fisherman Mike Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 thats it..... then we can vote labour back in, them that caused all this in the first placelabour were over the moon to lose the last election because otherwise they would have to clear up their own mess and would have been found out sooner.. shaun Dont believe everything you hear on Question time... I dont seem to recall the majority of Conservative led Local Government, Educational and Regional Health Authorities refusing Government money in the last 10 - 15 years...... or any that had a thought to perhaps give it back.. This is a legacy left over not from Government of the last 10 -15 years but the Thatcher era when all of the populace was ecouraged to improve their lot by investing and spending money they just didnt have. Conversely today the population is much more credit wary and private expenditure reigned in on a domestic and commercial level to the extent that the borrowing required to finance the Private sector is just not available. Take away the Public sector Finance which many, if not the majority of Private Industry relies on and what we have is a large Vacuum in the economy into which nothing is pouring and more and more is being sucked out. Conservative, Labour, Liberal, Greens, BNP, Screaming Lord Such and the Monster raving Loony party may or may not be responsible...it matters not one jot who is...but IMO we can cut, cut cut expenditure but its not going to resolve the isues of increasing Inflation, increasing interest rates and increasing hardship for us all.... Its all going to end in tears.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 I think Europe might have been a much different place had we done that in 1939. In March 1939 England and France gave a pledge of armed support to Greece, Romania and Poland, if they were attacked by Germany or Italy. On the 1st September Germany attacked Poland and the rest is history. There is a lot of difference in supporting allies (especially when there is the self interest of knowing you will be next) and righting selected wrongs in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Dont believe everything you hear on Question time... I dont seem to recall the majority of Conservative led Local Government, Educational and Regional Health Authorities refusing Government money in the last 10 - 15 years...... or any that had a thought to perhaps give it back.. This is a legacy left over not from Government of the last 10 -15 years but the Thatcher era when all of the populace was ecouraged to improve their lot by investing and spending money they just didnt have. Conversely today the population is much more credit wary and private expenditure reigned in on a domestic and commercial level to the extent that the borrowing required to finance the Private sector is just not available. Take away the Public sector Finance which many, if not the majority of Private Industry relies on and what we have is a large Vacuum in the economy into which nothing is pouring and more and more is being sucked out. Conservative, Labour, Liberal, Greens, BNP, Screaming Lord Such and the Monster raving Loony party may or may not be responsible...it matters not one jot who is...but IMO we can cut, cut cut expenditure but its not going to resolve the isues of increasing Inflation, increasing interest rates and increasing hardship for us all.... Its all going to end in tears.... Mike... I think your final paragraph is very true and very insightful... The truth is that what is being done is necessary BUT is very much a case of 'too little too late' by the same measure, increasing public spending would be much worse at this point... The lesser of 2 evils is to make cuts, yes, painful in the short term but not as bad as the long term pain of continuing the spending. The GLOBAL economy has reached a tipping point... as I have said many times before, the main driver behind everything is oil and moving forward NOTHING any of the worlds governments can do will stave off the impending crash... Yes Mike... I whole heartedly agree with you.... It IS all going to end in tears, tomorrow, next year, in 10 years... we don't know... but it is coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 In March 1939 England and France gave a pledge of armed support to Greece, Romania and Poland, if they were attacked by Germany or Italy. On the 1st September Germany attacked Poland and the rest is history. There is a lot of difference in supporting allies (especially when there is the self interest of knowing you will be next) and righting selected wrongs in other countries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 For those who believe that we should cut back on military spending and only retain sufficient forces to defend ourselves-we passed that line years ago and are now at a point where we would be unable to defend ourselves against 90% of european countries.As for the Tornado-the pile of junk should have never been built in the first place,even before it flew the yanks were decommisioning far superior a/c-we could have bought the F15 or 16 and saved millions whilst flying a far more advanced a/c.The actual number of pilots who refused point blank to fly the Tornado in combat during the gulf conflict has never been released but is believed to be substancial and i seem to recall that the same a/c had the highest rate of crashes %-wise of any a/c in the conflict.Good riddance to it-problem is that the Typhoon is like its ******* child. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Dont believe everything you hear on Question time... I dont seem to recall the majority of Conservative led Local Government, Educational and Regional Health Authorities refusing Government money in the last 10 - 15 years...... or any that had a thought to perhaps give it back.. This is a legacy left over not from Government of the last 10 -15 years but the Thatcher era when all of the populace was ecouraged to improve their lot by investing and spending money they just didnt have. Conversely today the population is much more credit wary and private expenditure reigned in on a domestic and commercial level to the extent that the borrowing required to finance the Private sector is just not available. Take away the Public sector Finance which many, if not the majority of Private Industry relies on and what we have is a large Vacuum in the economy into which nothing is pouring and more and more is being sucked out. Conservative, Labour, Liberal, Greens, BNP, Screaming Lord Such and the Monster raving Loony party may or may not be responsible...it matters not one jot who is...but IMO we can cut, cut cut expenditure but its not going to resolve the isues of increasing Inflation, increasing interest rates and increasing hardship for us all.... Its all going to end in tears.... I really cant believe your blaming thatcher..... :o When labour took over from the tories they inherited a healthy bank balance which has taken them 10-15 years to decimate.....this happens every time tories in.... build the country back up from labour.....people wait until they forget how bad labour is then vote the tories out and labour in labour decimate the economy.......so they vote them out again leaving the tories to clean up after them. it was said that whoever won the last general election would be unelectable come the next election due to the cuts that would have to be made following the labour debarcle... your second bit I highlighted unfortunately is true but dont for one second think labour could do anything about it.....their attitude was to wait and see.....look where that has got us. the note left by the outgoing treasury minister was very apt....."sorry, there is no money left"......he should have added "we squandered it all away, see you in 5 years" shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 The actual number of pilots who refused point blank to fly the Tornado in combat during the gulf conflict has never been released but is believed to be substancial and i seem to recall that the same a/c had the highest rate of crashes %-wise of any a/c in the conflict. You need to qualify these comments Is this from 1st hand experience? As pilots are trained on specific aircraft (without re-training, non-tranferable skills,) I find it impossible to believe that a pilot who had been training constantly on his aircraft during peace-time would then turn round at the point his skills needed to be put into practice and say 'sorry chaps, not flying the old Tornado in combat, she's just not up to it!' At the end of the day, it is not his decision to make to say whether an aircraft is combat capable or not and refusing to fly (for other than safety reasons, i.e. mechanical or IT failure) would land him in serious doo-doo, probably culminating in a courts marshal and discharge... The MOD doesn't spend millions training these guys for them to then turn round and refuse!!!!!! Utter, utter *****x Also, I am not aware (although I am not privi to classified material) of any excessive tornado crashes during the conflicts. As the Tornado is/was the UKs mainstay fast fighter, it would stand to reason that more were lost than other aircraft simply because their numbers were proportionately higher. Also, the pure nature of the beast means it will come into harms way more frequently than other types of plane, i.e. high altitude bombers etc.. We were spoonfed realtime data during the height of the conflicts by the media (mainly tabloid TV.... Sky) and lost aircraft were reported back to us, as I said ealier, I was not aware of any reporting of excessive Tornado crashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno22rf Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Info comes from oldest sisters husband who was out there with 31 Sq-still serving(now on heli,s) so no more details.Easy for me to say but impossible to prove that the man does,nt tell stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) lots of doom and gloom here without much thought I might add, world is a different place now, just were is the airbourne attack coming from that warrants the tornado ireland or iceland? anyway it was an old plane getting ready for retirement (as was the harrier)the germans are now scrapping their fleet of tornado's albeit in a staged fashion, the typhoon will now come along a bit quicker and with a ground attack version, oh and dont forget the f35 JSF soon to be coming to a sky near you, plus of course the much overlooked ability to chuck a tomahawk cruise missile from a sub,a missile that can do anything wanted quickly and reletively cheaply. So we aint doomed yet but had we gone on allowing the constant waste and over runs accepted by the previous defence dept and the armed forces, we soon would have been. KW Edited February 22, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 lots of doom and gloom here without much thought I might add, world is a different place now, just were is the airbourne attack coming from that warrants the tornado ireland or iceland? anyway it was an old plane getting ready for retirement (as was the harrier)the germans are now scrapping their fleet of tornado's albeit in a staged fashion, the typhoon will now come along a bit quicker and with a ground attack version, oh and dont forget the f35 JSF soon to be coming to a sky near you, plus of course the much overlooked ability to chuck a tomahawk cruise missile from a sub,a missile that can do anything wanted quickly and reletively cheaply. So we aint doomed yet but had we gone on allowing the constant waste and over runs accepted by the previous defence dept and the armed forces, we soon would have been. KW you cant say that.....it was all maggie thatchers fault....ask fisherman mike, he knows... shaun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun4860 Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 (edited) ooops double post... twitchy finger syndrome shaun Edited February 22, 2011 by shaun4860 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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