sitsinhedges Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) Had an old chap get a strop on with me today because I dared to disagree with his opinion on shot strings. He came waltzing along at the clay club with a couple of other chaps he appeared to be coaching and as he passed a driven stand I had just shot he said that I must have light chokes in my gun because of the way he had seen a clay break. He hadn't seen the ones I turned to smoke. I said it was a quarter choke but that I knew it threw quite tight patterns with my ammo because I had patterned it to which he replied that patterning was a waste of time because of the shot string. He said that as the clay passed thru a shot string it would be hit several times to which I replied that there was as much chance of it moving into clear air within the pattern as there was it moving into the path of a shotgun pellet if the shot were spread out. At this he just got huffy and said he'd been doing it all his life and that he was right, then went storming off apparently unable to make a viable argument to prove himself correct. I gave his 'pupils' a wry smile. If I am wrong I would like someone to put exactly why into understandable terms to help me understand, but would also like you to be able to understand my assertion and why I currently think as I do. Edited March 2, 2011 by sitsinhedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartynGT4 Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 This may help.. http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/that-shot-string-thing-Page1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) This may help.. http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/that-shot-string-thing-Page1.htm I've just read that but it doesn't answer any of my questions and kind of confirms my idea that a string of shot would actually be detrimental to a clay being broken as it passes thru the 3 dimensional pattern of shot due to there being more open spaces available for the clay to pass into if anything That bird in the article isn't going to be very edible is it Edited March 2, 2011 by sitsinhedges Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Of course there is a shot string, there has to be as the pellets start off in a stack. How long and wide it is is dependant on so many variables. I think what you are saying is the pattern is flat which is not right. However even if the shot string was 10 feet long then how long at say 1200 feet per second does it take to travel that 10 feet? Not as long as it takes a clay to fly accross the 30" pattern I bet. If the pattern was two dimensional as you say then the chances are a slow driven clay would only be hit by one or two pellets yet more often than not they are reduced to dust. People in the past have talked about the hosepipe effect where you get a curved shot string like you do water from a moving hosepipe but this is incorrect. When the shot leaves the barrel it is only an inch or so long and the movement of the barrel has no effect on its shape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitsinhedges Posted March 2, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 Of course there is a shot string, there has to be as the pellets start off in a stack. How long and wide it is is dependant on so many variables. I think what you are saying is the pattern is flat which is not right. However even if the shot string was 10 feet long then how long at say 1200 feet per second does it take to travel that 10 feet? Not as long as it takes a clay to fly accross the 30" pattern I bet. If the pattern was two dimensional as you say then the chances are a slow driven clay would only be hit by one or two pellets yet more often than not they are reduced to dust. People in the past have talked about the hosepipe effect where you get a curved shot string like you do water from a moving hosepipe but this is incorrect. When the shot leaves the barrel it is only an inch or so long and the movement of the barrel has no effect on its shape. I don't think the pattern is flat, I agree that there is a shot string and I understand the reasons why it exists What I can't agree with is that apparently a clay flies across a shotgun pattern and has more chance of being broken because of the extended string. The idea apparently is that it has more than one chance of being hit by successive waves of pellets but my assertion is that successive waves of shot would be much less dense and the clay has as much chance of moving into clear spaces than into the path of a successive number of pellets. I also doubt the distance moved is very great anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 (edited) I believe that an extended shot string helps break a clay, but I tend to think of distant crossers as better examples than a low driven bird. With a rangey crossing bird, you'd need to be bloody good to plant a small ball of shot on the clay at that range, with a fast-moving bird. In reality, you only need to get the lead approximately right but you need to get the right line. Then, especially at that range, you have a nice deep shot string, which is quite forgiving, eliminating the need to get the lead spot on. Yes, the pattern at any point within that shot string is far less dense at long range, when the shot string gets extended, but there isn't much you can do about that, other than use tighter chokes. Edited March 2, 2011 by Chard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 but does this work the same with steel shot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chard Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 but does this work the same with steel shot I don't think you're taking this seriously Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 2, 2011 Report Share Posted March 2, 2011 9:30 in see a shot string in flight I dont the the gauge/choke or shot size but shos the "cloud" clearly http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfDoQwIAaXg Awesome video and cracking sound track ! IF only them could film a clay being broken in flight....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 Hi, I'll give you 50% for the pattern testing and 50% to the old boy for the shot string. However, I'm deducting 10% from you for lack of courtesy to your elders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kermit the frog Posted March 3, 2011 Report Share Posted March 3, 2011 MC has got it right, If my maths are correct, and the shot is travelling at 1200 feet/sec = 818 mph the clay might be travelling at 100 feet/sec = 68 mph so the shot string is foreshortened by about 12, if your shot string is 10 foot long its effectively shortened to 10 inches same principal as walking across the road and running across the road, less chance of being hit by the bus if you run! makes us all better shots than we thought! kermit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigeonstool Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Thanks - a great article - puts a few 'things' into some sort of perspective. I suppose us 'old timers' that still believe that the tighter the choke = the longer the shot string = a going away bird (usually 3/4 to full) and an open choke is for 'crossers' thro quartering to driven ( usually IC / 1/4 ) -- Why get all "techy" - nearly all birds fly past your shot - OK - if you bust clays and want 100/100 then OK - get all tecky - but on game - it's all in the swing - and mine is quite variable This may help.. http://www.gundogsonline.com/Article/that-shot-string-thing-Page1.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beretta Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 very variable if i remember Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bangs Posted March 4, 2011 Report Share Posted March 4, 2011 Sometimes I hit, sometimes I miss, knowing the science and maths won't make any difference if you can't hit them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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