Canada goose control

[pigeonblasterian]

Really?

unless of course they're causing SERIOUS crop damage, or have become a health & safety hazard.

No problem then.

[Ratsmasher]

Many of you have fallen hook line and sinker for an extra bit of shooting with a set of circumstances that was unintentional and has come about by accident. For the umpteenth time, the canada is not classed as vermin.

 

It is however,non native.

 

bit confused cos I thought that the canada was a pest now is that different thing to vermin or am I wrong in thinking that it is a pest

[Elby]

Really?

 

Try ringing NE and asking them if it's ok to go down to your local marsh and shoot Canada's tomorrow.

 

I suspect the answer would be a resounding NO, unless of course they're causing SERIOUS crop damage, or have become a health & safety hazard.

The answer might well be no but it would still be legal

[poontang]

The answer might well be no but it would still be legal

 

Under what premise?

[Elby]

Under what premise?

Haven't we been here before?

Under the general license

[poontang]

Haven't we been here before?

Under the general license

 

The General licences cover serious crop protection and health and safety.

 

How would shooting Canada's grazing marshland be covered by either licence?

[Elby]

The General licences cover serious crop protection and health and safety.

 

How would shooting Canada's grazing marshland be covered by either licence?

It doesn't, in the case of Canada's it covers non native species.

As a non native species you don't have to show that they are doing damage.

This has already been mentioned several times earlier in the thread.

[poontang]

It doesn't, in the case of Canada's it covers non native species.

As a non native species you don't have to show that they are doing damage.

This has already been mentioned several times earlier in the thread.

 

Sika and CWD are alien species too. They are protected by a closed season.

 

Canada's are protected by the wildfowling closed season UNLESS they are contravening the terms of the OGL's. Being an alien species is NOT a reason to shoot them, it merely states in the licence that other, non lethal methods do not need to be tried before shooting.

 

As an aside, there are 3 categories used by DEFRA to determine the status of wildlife in this country. Alien, Alien/Native and Native.

 

Canada's have been upgraded to an Alien/Native species due to the fact that they are, in the main, non migratory and established. Also, Natural England have now allowed full protection status for them when any statutory shooting ban is in force during the wildfowling season.

 

Two recent upgrades which will hopefully give the birds a bit more protection from those who seem to want to exterminate them.

[JustJon]

It doesn't, in the case of Canada's it covers non native species.

As a non native species you don't have to show that they are doing damage.

This has already been mentioned several times earlier in the thread.

 

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl06_tcm6-24151.pdf

 

This debate was getting on my nerves, so I've just read the general license. I picked the flora, fauna license rather than the crop protection license everyone talks about.

 

If you scroll down to the notes, explanatory notes, point o. This is a 2011 document, so very up to date. I trust what it says.

 

Only think I've never found is the legislation that let's me shoot rabbits and rats but I'll find it one day :o

[Elby]

Sika and CWD are alien species too. They are protected by a closed season. So are munty's, fallow, and some argue Roe & Red, rabbits too

 

Canada's are protected by the wildfowling closed season UNLESS they are contravening the terms of the OGL's. Being an alien species is NOT a reason to shoot them, it merely states in the licence that other, non lethal methods do not need to be tried before shooting.

 

As an aside, there are 3 categories used by DEFRA to determine the status of wildlife in this country. Alien, Alien/Native and Native.

 

Canada's have been upgraded to an Alien/Native species due to the fact that they are, in the main, non migratory and established. Also, Natural England have now allowed full protection status for them when any statutory shooting ban is in force during the wildfowling season.

 

Two recent upgrades which will hopefully give the birds a bit more protection from those who seem to want to exterminate them.

There are enough links on this thread stating that as a no native species Canada's can be shot without showing crop damage.

I can't be bothered to troll back through them all

[poontang]

http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/wml-gl06_tcm6-24151.pdf

 

 

If you scroll down to the notes, explanatory notes, point o. This is a 2011 document, so very up to date. I trust what it says.

 

 

Exactly my point.

 

You don't have to use non-lethal methods before shooting non-native species.

 

It doesn't however say that Canada's can be shot BECAUSE they're 'non-native'.

 

They still have to be breaching the terms of the licence.

[poontang]

There are enough links on this thread stating that as a no native species Canada's can be shot without showing crop damage.

I can't be bothered to troll back through them all

 

The only things that matter are the General Licences issued by NE.

 

If you can find me a link to ANY licence that states Canada's can be shot simply because they're non-native I'll apologise and admit I'm wrong in my interpretation of them.

Edited April 24, 2011 by poontang

[Elby]

The only things that matter are the General Licences issued by NE.

 

If you can find me a link to ANY licence that states Canada's can be shot simply because they're non-native I'll apologise and admit I'm wrong in my interpretation of them.

I never said that.

Unlike other animals on the GL you don't have to prove crop damage, because they are non native

 

o) Condition 3 of this licence – which requires users to satisfy themselves that other appropriate legal

methods of resolving the problem are either ineffective or impracticable - only applies to bird species

that Natural England considers to be native to Great Britain (these are listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) and

2(ii)); it does not apply to non-native species (listed at paragraphs 2(i)(). People may use nonlethal methods, such as scaring and proofing, for non-natives and are encouraged to do so where

this is the best solution to a problem, but these methods do not need to be shown to be ineffective

or impracticable before this licence can be relied upon.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Elby

[poontang]

I never said that.

Unlike other animals on the GL you don't have to prove crop damage, because they are non native

 

o) Condition 3 of this licence – which requires users to satisfy themselves that other appropriate legal

methods of resolving the problem are either ineffective or impracticable - only applies to bird species

that Natural England considers to be native to Great Britain (these are listed at paragraph 2(i)(a) and

2(ii)); it does not apply to non-native species (listed at paragraphs 2(i)(). People may use nonlethal methods, such as scaring and proofing, for non-natives and are encouraged to do so where

this is the best solution to a problem, but these methods do not need to be shown to be ineffective

or impracticable before this licence can be relied upon.

 

All that says is non lethal methods do not need to be tried first (though it is encouraged).

 

It doesn't say there needs to be no crop damage or H&S risk!!

[Elby]

All that says is non lethal methods do not need to be tried first (though it is encouraged).

 

It doesn't say there needs to be no crop damage or H&S risk!!

It says unlike other species where you have to show other methods before culling the Canada is non native so you don't have to.

[poontang]

It says unlike other species where you have to show other methods before culling the Canada is non native so you don't have to.

 

Exactly!!

 

You don't have to show other methods before shooting them, but they still have to be causing a problem before any control is carried out.

 

It's not a good enough reason to shoot them if they're not causing a problem, just because they're non-native.

[Elby]

Exactly!!

 

You don't have to show other methods before shooting them, but they still have to be causing a problem before any control is carried out.

 

It's not a good enough reason to shoot them if they're not causing a problem, just because they're non-native.

You can claim they are causing a problem anywhere though.

[poontang]

You can claim they are causing a problem anywhere though.

 

And therein lies the problem!

 

I've never said that they shouldn't be culled IF they're causing a problem.

 

Unfortunately too many people manipulate the OGL's just so they can shoot something.

 

It's that, in my opinion, which is wrong and doesn't do anyone any favours.

[39TDS]

IIRC in the OP they were swimming around on a golf course pond.

If that isn't causing a problem necessitating extermination I don't know what does.

ps. it was a good shot, but I personally wouldn't have videoed it and definitely wouldn't have posted the vid on here or anywhere else.

How come there is so much mention on this thread of them being wiped out?

There are tens of thousands of them and on the increase not decrease. They fly over my place in their thousands, fortunately they don't land on my fields as they really would be a problem. I have seen them on fields in vast numbers and at first I thought it was some sort of crop I hadn't seen before. Then I realised the crop was actually moving.

I don't intend to shoot them, but if they become a problem I will have to, and with the increase in their numbers that I have seen that is a possibility. I wasn't serious about the golf course "problem" by the way.

[JustJon]

And therein lies the problem!

 

I've never said that they shouldn't be culled IF they're causing a problem.

 

Unfortunately too many people manipulate the OGL's just so they can shoot something.

 

It's that, in my opinion, which is wrong and doesn't do anyone any favours.

 

However, on the flora and fauna front could I just argue that due to wood pigeons the song birds in my garden are reduced and hence shoot?

 

It's a pretty open license really?

[Elby]

And therein lies the problem!

 

I've never said that they shouldn't be culled IF they're causing a problem.

 

Unfortunately too many people manipulate the OGL's just so they can shoot something.

 

It's that, in my opinion, which is wrong and doesn't do anyone any favours.

I agree and like I said earier I still allow them a closed season.

My argument has never been about shooting them but about the legality of shooting them.

[poontang]

 

It's a pretty open license really?

 

They're certainly open to interpretation, however they're quite specific in what they say.

 

I think 39TDS has the right idea.

Whilst they're not causing him a problem there's no need to kill them.

 

However, if his neighbours crops are being hammered then they have every reason to do just that.

[poontang]

I agree and like I said earier I still allow them a closed season.

My argument has never been about shooting them but about the legality of shooting them.

 

[Elby]

They're certainly open to interpretation, however they're quite specific in what they say.

 

I think 39TDS has the right idea.

Whilst they're not causing him a problem there's no need to kill them.

 

However, if his neighbours crops are being hammered then they have every reason to do just that.

If one of my landowners had a problem with them and asked me to cull them I wouldn't have much choice.

They'd just get someone else to do it.

Milton Keynes had a massive problem with them about 10 years back, they have been putting parafin on the eggs every year since and no's have dwindled.

I had a 45 acre field that used to get around 2000 on the stubble, now you'd be lucky to see 200.

You couldn't walk round some of the lakes without being knee deep in goose **** and the water in the lakes was green

[Alycidon]

Canadas and hares can be shot all year round in England there is no season.There will always be someone that takes a holier than thou attitude because they do not shoot them and someone else does.They probably do not have any to shoot and wish they had that is what i think.

 

 

Hares are getting pretty scarce in a lot of the country, intensive cerials and buzzards seem to be the main culprits. Unless you have a serious problem please dont shoot them at this time of year.

 

A