You volunteered....

[libs]

My god, why is it that members on this forum do themselves no favours? The original poster stated his opinion and i`m sorry but yes the post is controversial and some elements of it are true and many people will agree with it and on the other hand others will disagree, i believe that this is a case of one mans opinion should be respected, it wasn`t meant maliciously or with mal intent it was his opinion, it then suddenly spirals into i assume ex squaddies making out that he deserves to be filled in, not doing your cause much good as all you achieve is making people think that if they speak out a bunch of shaved headed thugs are going to beat them up? take a step back and think about the image you are trying to portray.

I personally don`t give a monkies, they have their job i have mine, we make career choices we gain or suffer depending on how the dice rolls.

 

Well firstly, far from being an ex squaddie I am in fact a snot nosed officer cadet just waiting for a slot at RMAS, I spend a fair bit of time with regular soldiers and officers and see the tireless effort they put in, not only on ops but also training themselves or recruits year round. Secondly, am I really suggesting that the OP go and climb atop a soapbox in a military town and speak his views, of course not. I'm sure he lacks a pair of plumbs large enough to do so and has enough brain cells rattling around to realise what a stupid idea that would be.

 

I respect the OPs views, but I don't agree with them. I personally feel that not just the armed forces, but all of our uniformed services are currently being shafted and have been for some time by successive governments who, let’s face it, are just out to win their jobs back in a few years time.

 

It just seems odd to me to suggests then men and women who have worked rather hard for not much money, and done more than most will ever do to uphold and ensure future stability and peace in not only our country but in various dusty conflict zones around world don't deserve to be looked after. Of course the stereotype exists of the knuckle dragging squaddie, I am sure there are a few out there, but I can say that the vast majority of the private soldiers and NCOs I have met are just chaps like the rest of us who turn up to work, do their job and enjoy a beer like any sane bloke.

 

If you wish to chip in an tell people to stop posting on a forum, I presume there is some sort of form you can request titled 'I want to be a moderator' but to be honest the way this forum has been of late I think I would rather be playing on a two way range!

[Willxx]

to the OP

 

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the underlying sentiment of the original novel of Starship Troopers (I believe the film was deliberately made with fascistic overtones in line with (wrongly) perceived ideology of the author Robert A Heinlein), it was a book written shortly after WW2 by a writer who acknowledged the privations suffered by some ex-servicemen and the argument that if you felt strongly enough about your rights and liberties then you should earn that right by performing service to your country, the book focused on military service but it was intinmated that it extended beyond that.

 

Is this such a bad idea?

 

Why do we think that being born (or these days even resident) in a country grants us rights but the people willing to actually put their lives on the line for their country should have less? Its basically an argument for "put up or shut up" (I'm not ex-service btw but do agree with the sentiments)

[chrispti]

My god, why is it that members on this forum do themselves no favours? The original poster stated his opinion and i`m sorry but yes the post is controversial and some elements of it are true and many people will agree with it and on the other hand others will disagree, i believe that this is a case of one mans opinion should be respected, it wasn`t meant maliciously or with mal intent it was his opinion, it then suddenly spirals into i assume ex squaddies making out that he deserves to be filled in, not doing your cause much good as all you achieve is making people think that if they speak out a bunch of shaved headed thugs are going to beat them up? take a step back and think about the image you are trying to portray.

I personally don`t give a monkies, they have their job i have mine, we make career choices we gain or suffer depending on how the dice rolls.

 

Some people are not impressed with some of his other, anti forces, comments in other topics. Thats why he has recieved a little flack.

[Bluebarrels]

My god, why is it that members on this forum do themselves no favours? The original poster stated his opinion and i`m sorry but yes the post is controversial and some elements of it are true and many people will agree with it and on the other hand others will disagree, i believe that this is a case of one mans opinion should be respected, it wasn`t meant maliciously or with mal intent it was his opinion, it then suddenly spirals into i assume ex squaddies making out that he deserves to be filled in, not doing your cause much good as all you achieve is making people think that if they speak out a bunch of shaved headed thugs are going to beat them up? take a step back and think about the image you are trying to portray.

I personally don`t give a monkies, they have their job i have mine, we make career choices we gain or suffer depending on how the dice rolls.

 

 

I think your been a little dramatic no ones suggesting he needs filling in

 

Yes ex squaddies and serving generally stick together(do you not stand by your mates?),its what theve been trained to do when your in the **** in some foreign hell hole its good to know you can realy on each other,and hopefully make it home to loved ones but sadly some dont make it home yes its there career choice,and they understand the dangers involved,but lets get one thing straight it aint no easy job

 

The OP has clearly got issues with the armed forces and lets remember without Volunteers to serve,Conscription would come in,he would most likely have to serve,that would certainely take him out of his comfort zone BB

[MaybeNextTime]

We volunteer so you dont have to

 

Take a trip to Royal wooton Bassett or Headley court and see what the volunteers do :yes:

 

You stay safe in Guilford

 

I know Headley Court quite well thanks.

 

I think you may have made one too many assumptions

 

My point was that casting the Covenant (which has only been kicking around since 2000) in to law won't actually change anything. I do not trust politicians at the best of times and certainly not in an era of cuts. This will be a paper exercise that will result in next to nothing for soldiers and their families.

[PaulABF]

Yes we volunteered but we don't want special rights. To be treated like a human, with decent living accom and support for families, especially the ones of the grievously injured and the KIA and some backing from the government would be nice - a bit like the majority of British citizens get automatically. We don't have a union, we don't go on strike, we get a lot of empty promises - "Enjoy your Xmas leave lads.....oops come back and put some fires out and when you're finished deploy to Iraq....etc." Hopefully cases like the acting Sgt, KIA last year, who was given a Cpls pension (or rather his family were)as he hadn't been a Sgt long enough irrespective that he'd been carrying out the duties of platoon Sgt for 5 months, under fire, right up until he was killed.

 

Anyway that's my take on it. Enjoy your armchair and your warm bed.

Edited May 15, 2011 by PaulABF

[MaybeNextTime]

to the OP

 

There was absolutely nothing wrong with the underlying sentiment of the original novel of Starship Troopers (I believe the film was deliberately made with fascistic overtones in line with (wrongly) perceived ideology of the author Robert A Heinlein), it was a book written shortly after WW2 by a writer who acknowledged the privations suffered by some ex-servicemen and the argument that if you felt strongly enough about your rights and liberties then you should earn that right by performing service to your country, the book focused on military service but it was intinmated that it extended beyond that.

 

Is this such a bad idea?

 

Why do we think that being born (or these days even resident) in a country grants us rights but the people willing to actually put their lives on the line for their country should have less? Its basically an argument for "put up or shut up" (I'm not ex-service btw but do agree with the sentiments)

 

The film Starship Troopers (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it) was made to parody the idea of a society in which only those willing to be indoctrinated in to a military get to voice an opinion. The point being that you end up with a self serving culture that only ever goes one way and has to look to continual war to justify itself.

 

To my mind giving special rights to special people based on their jobs is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Soldiers should expect exactly what is in their contracts, just the same as every other employee.

 

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

[KFC]

The film Starship Troopers (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it) was made to parody the idea of a society in which only those willing to be indoctrinated in to a military get to voice an opinion. The point being that you end up with a self serving culture that only ever goes one way and has to look to continual war to justify itself.

 

To my mind giving special rights to special people based on their jobs is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Soldiers should expect exactly what is in their contracts, just the same as every other employee.

 

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

 

So how many 'other employees' do you know who are employed 24/7/365, have no fixed abode, can be sent anywhere in the world at a moments notice often not being able to tell relatives where they are, are likely to suffer debilitating psychological problems or lose their life and, at the end of a fixed period, would then be unemployed and left to turn their hand to whatever work they could find?

 

I don't know the book 'Starship Troopers' but I'm assuming it is a work of fiction?

Edited May 15, 2011 by KFC

[chrispti]

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

 

 

''I still don't understand why some old blokes who spent maybe 2 years in National Service 50 years ago insist on wearing medals, polishing shoes, standing stiffly by the side of the road and pointing their hands at their own heads because someone they never met died in a foreign war. Respect? Sounds more like their own lives are empty''

 

So the above quote from yourself was a genuine question and not disrespectful in any way then?

[welsh1]

The film Starship Troopers (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it) was made to parody the idea of a society in which only those willing to be indoctrinated in to a military get to voice an opinion. The point being that you end up with a self serving culture that only ever goes one way and has to look to continual war to justify itself.

 

To my mind giving special rights to special people based on their jobs is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Soldiers should expect exactly what is in their contracts, just the same as every other employee.

 

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

 

The first point is that those willing to enter the military actually LOSE their voice,no unions,no striking.

Secondly the contract is a little different to your normal contract,you agree to serve Her Majesty,Her heirs and successors,and Her government,it doesn't say you start a 8 and finish at 5 and get every other monday off,the only company car you may get will have 4x4 capability.

 

My point is that the military is a unique institution,and you can be walked all over,there needs to be some unwritten rules so everyone knows the score.

 

Just a few examples of unfairness,

Soldiers posted overseas still had to pay council tax,even though they had no choice of where they are posted(civilians who go abroad can stop council tax)

 

When posted overseas the exchange rate can be bad for your pound,so the government used to pay you a bit extra to meet that difference,thats kind of them.When the first gulf war started and a soldier with a wife and 2 kids was sent to the gulf to fight,his wife and kids lost that bit extra,they still had to buy the local food,but were disadvantaged because the husband/dad was up to his neck in sand wondering if he would get killed the next day.

 

The above examples were to a point changed because people spoke up for the military,and the government were shamed into changing them.

There are a lot more things wrong,like soldiers with no limbs getting a pittance of a pension,and having to go to charities to help them out with basic things to help them try to lead a "normal" life,they do not complain,that's not the military way,but it takes charities and relatives to bring the government to account.

There are thousands of troops that will not know the hell of PTSD until they have left the military,and most will be treated by the courts as unruly drunks or to quote a post on here"shaven headed thugs"the lucky ones will be directed to CHARITIES like COMBAT STRESS,the military will not offer them help,their local authority will put them on the bottom of the list,below alcoholics and drug users,IS THAT FAIR,it was not their doing that they saw mates blown up,children thrown into cellars and burnt in the balkans.

 

I have bored you enough now,but please don't think the forces want special treatment,they just want FAIR treatment,and despite a lot of the perception of the forces,the large majority do very skilled jobs(we will discount the RA )

and just want to know that when they do the bidding of the government,that government will in return look after them.

Most Soldiers only want to be treated fairly,and to know if it all goes tits up,their families will be taken care of.

[KFC]

The film Starship Troopers (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it) was made to parody the idea of a society in which only those willing to be indoctrinated in to a military get to voice an opinion. The point being that you end up with a self serving culture that only ever goes one way and has to look to continual war to justify itself.

 

To my mind giving special rights to special people based on their jobs is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Soldiers should expect exactly what is in their contracts, just the same as every other employee.

 

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

 

I could be persuaded to agree with you on that point in that I believe that the American military is so massive that, in order to maintain production, prevent unemployment, develop and test new weapons and make massive profits, it depends on them fighting a war somewhere.

But I think this is a different question to the way those who volunteer would wish to be treated.

British forces only sign an allegiance btw, they don't have a contract.

Edited May 15, 2011 by KFC

[welsh1]

I could be persuaded to agree with you on that point in that I believe that the American military is so massive that, in order to maintain production, prevent unemployment, develop and test new weapons and make massive profits, it depends on them fighting a war somewhere.

But I think this is a different question to the way those who volunteer would wish to be treated.

British forces only sign an allegiance btw, they don't have a contract.

 

 

Here is the oath for those interested.

 

“ I swear by almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true

allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, her heirs and

successors and that I will as in duty bound honestly and faithfully

defend her Majesty, her heirs and successors in person, crown

and dignity against all enemies and will observe and obey all orders

of her Majesty, her heirs and successors and of the generals

and officers set over me.”

1

 

 

Irrespective of private beliefs, this Oath embodies the context

within which the British Army fights and operates. It expresses

the loyalty of every soldier to the Sovereign as Head of State.

These relationships find expression in the Colours, Standards and

other emblems of Regimental and Corps spirit, which derive from

the Sovereign. Personal commitment is the foundation of military

service. Soldiers must be prepared to serve whenever and

wherever required and to do their best at all times.

This means putting the needs of the mission and of the team

before personal interests.

1 Those who do not believe in God “Solemnly, sincerely and truly declare and affirm

[Bluebarrels]

''I still don't understand why some old blokes who spent maybe 2 years in National Service 50 years ago insist on wearing medals, polishing shoes, standing stiffly by the side of the road and pointing their hands at their own heads because someone they never met died in a foreign war. Respect? Sounds more like their own lives are empty''

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I understand why some old bloke who spent maybe 2 years National service 50 years ago insist on wearing medals etc etc etc,they have respect :yes:

 

Is my life empty maybe in your opinion but in my opinion its full of RESPECT!!!!

Edited May 15, 2011 by Bluebarrels

[Canis]

The film Starship Troopers (I can't speak for the book as I haven't read it) was made to parody the idea of a society in which only those willing to be indoctrinated in to a military get to voice an opinion. The point being that you end up with a self serving culture that only ever goes one way and has to look to continual war to justify itself.

 

To my mind giving special rights to special people based on their jobs is a dangerous step in the wrong direction. Soldiers should expect exactly what is in their contracts, just the same as every other employee.

 

Still, perhaps I should have expected the response, after all some people thought that by questioning the the whole Royal WB thing somehow I was disrespecting the memories of dead soldiers. Madness. Some folk just look for ways to be offended.

 

I thought the film was actually presenting the concept of the human race heading towards being wiped out and showing that sacrafice by a large number of people was necessary for the human race to survive at all! Societys way of getting people to do their bit was by rewarding service with the rights and priveledge of "citizenship" (one assumes this means voting/pension rights etc). It was also clear to point out that "citizenship" could not simply be bought.

 

personally I think theres a lot of merit in the concept of citizenship and and voting rights being a privelige of those who put themselves at the country's disposal !

[Matty7247]

I served, 1 tour in Iraq, and have mates the have been Discharged through mental illness. We choose to serve, we got paid to

serve, and i think a little back for all the hard work British Forces do these days should be repaid once they leave. The

Country doesnt seem to understand that because there were Volunteers this, and many other countrys have freedom of sppech

and oppression. There are obviously people here, that think because we Voluntered we should be rewarded?? Walk a mile in a

Soldiers boots, then come back and say what you think. Respect for Past and Present will always remain in the forces,

Regardless of when you served.

 

Matt

[MM]

''I still don't understand why some old blokes who spent maybe 2 years in National Service 50 years ago insist on wearing medals, polishing shoes, standing stiffly by the side of the road and pointing their hands at their own heads because someone they never met died in a foreign war. Respect? Sounds more like their own lives are empty''

 

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I understand why some old bloke who spent maybe 2 years National service 50 years ago insist on wearing medals etc etc etc,they have respect :yes:

 

Is my life empty maybe in your opinion but in my opinion its full of RESPECT!!!!

 

 

 

whoever made that comment is a complete ***.

[Bluebarrels]

whoever made that comment is a complete ***.

 

Have a look at the wootton bassett post,thats where the comment was posted BB

[Thunderbird]

Unless someone has been in the armed services (or been very close / family to someone who has) they probably aren't qualified to comment on how it feels, especially when it comes to the way different people pay their respects.

 

For some, getting ***holed and taking the **** with the lads is a way to remember lost mates (they would understand) and for others, perhaps of an older generation, it's about putting on your medals, and standing erect, and maybe seeing a few mates you knew when you were 21.

 

Then getting ****** and falling asleep.

[Miroku_Dave]

I’m in my 16th year of service and looking forward to a nice pension on my 40th birthday and one thing the Army has taught me is that people are entitled to opinions.

 

Like ********* we all have one and it’s those differing points of view that make things interesting.

 

I can see totally why someone who has never served and doesn’t come from a military background can think that we get a rosy deal especially after the coverage that we have in the media these days all we can do is educate.

 

I, like many other squaddies cringe every time we hear the word "Hero", We dont think we deserve special treatment, we don’t want people to bow and scrape to us, we just want people to acknowledge what we have done which is give 22 years of our life to serve you!

 

We do struggle to get a mortgage (I can’t get one now!) We can’t get car finance, my wife and kids can’t get a dentist because I’m in my tenth house in ten years of marriage so if the government make it law that people have to stop being deliberately obtuse because of my employment then I’m all for it!

 

(And if you civvy bastewards don’t like it I’m all for a ruck! )

 

That’s my rant over for the night

[MM]

I’m in my 16th year of service and looking forward to a nice pension on my 40th birthday and one thing the Army has taught me is that people are entitled to opinions.

 

Like ********* we all have one and it’s those differing points of view that make things interesting.

 

I can see totally why someone who has never served and doesn’t come from a military background can think that we get a rosy deal especially after the coverage that we have in the media these days all we can do is educate.

 

I, like many other squaddies cringe every time we hear the word "Hero", We dont think we deserve special treatment, we don’t want people to bow and scrape to us, we just want people to acknowledge what we have done which is give 22 years of our life to serve you!

 

We do struggle to get a mortgage (I can’t get one now!) We can’t get car finance, my wife and kids can’t get a dentist because I’m in my tenth house in ten years of marriage so if the government make it law that people have to stop being deliberately obtuse because of my employment then I’m all for it!

 

(And if you civvy bastewards don’t like it I’m all for a ruck! )

 

That’s my rant over for the night

 

Dave, dont for one minute think that civvies dont appreciate what you do. There are some morons out there who aint got a clue, but most of us repect what the armed forces go through. I dont agree with the reasons behind most wars, but that is not the fault of the soldier. Like any job, they do what they are told.

[Guest kenny]

Read it and think about it.

 

 

A VETERAN WHETHER ON ACTIVE DUTY, RETIRED, SEPARATED, TERRITORIAL, OR RESERVE, IS SOMEONE WHO AT ONE POINT IN HIS OR HER LIFE, WROTE A BLANK CHEQUE MADE PAYABLE TO ' THEIR COUNTRY ' FOR AN AMOUNT, ' UP TO AND INCLUDING THEIR LIFE '.

 

I take it none of you immediate family are serving.