Dekers Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 (edited) Many of you will know I'm not a big fan of Boresnakes, and certainly not on small calibres...so here we go. To set the scene a pal has recently purchased a Used 17HMR privately. He has never had a HMR before and was supplied with a Boresnake by the previous owner who assured him it was all he needed. This was the best part of 3 weeks ago, we have spoken many times about it and he was having all sorts of grief getting any sort of a group out of it. We went out on Thursday and the pattern was terrible. He had cleaned the gun himself with the Boresnake (Dry) and checked all the usual things, like a twit I piped up about boresnakes and offered to clean it properly for him. In truth, we obviously do not know how well/often the previous owner had cleaned it, but my pal most certainly had used the boresnake on it. First thing I noticed was how filthy the crown was when I took the mod off, that sorted I set about the barrel....this was the result, first patch was top right going left, then bottom row from left to right, brush/solvent scrubbed between each patch! To cut a long story short I spent nearly 3 hours giving the whole rifle a serious clean. Fortunately my efforts have been rewarded, just had a call from a much relieved guy, still out in the field, saying he is over the moon, it works and the groups are brilliant! Now then, I am not trying to start a war here, and if you clean by any method (or don't clean at all) and it works for you then fine, this was just a situation and set of circumstances! Edited May 15, 2011 by Dekers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 That is interesting. Laying the patches out like that does tell a good story. I wonder if you had run the bore snake through it, assuming it was a good quality one, half a dozen or a dozen times with some oil or solvent you would have got the same results or very close to it. That would be the real test I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everygoodnamewastaken Posted May 15, 2011 Report Share Posted May 15, 2011 I used to have an HMR too, Used this stuff along with a bore snake usually every 75ish shots. Groups were pretty all over the place without it http://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk/product/44b21331a53aef829534525/MILFOAM+Forrest+Foam+Rifle+Barrel+Cleaner+500ml+'28GMK93308'29/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 This was the best part of 3 weeks ago, we have spoken many times about it and he was having all sorts of grief getting any sort of a group out of it. We went out on Thursday and the pattern was terrible. how bad are we talking here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted May 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 how bad are we talking here? We didn't measure the groups, you didn't have to, we both tried it and got probably 3-4 inch groups, enough to say without hesitation +++k me, something isn't right here! The barrel had been cleaned with a boresnake...well ..... it doesn't work, the barrel was filthy, but possibly as big a problem was the fact a Boresnake "may" help to clean the barrel, but it is ***k all use cleaning the crown and the rest of the gun, people seem to think the barrel is all that matters. I spent the best part of 3 hours cleaning ALL this gun, and now it works! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 16, 2011 Report Share Posted May 16, 2011 We didn't measure the groups, you didn't have to, we both tried it and got probably 3-4 inch groups, enough to say without hesitation +++k me, something isn't right here! The barrel had been cleaned with a boresnake...well ..... it doesn't work, the barrel was filthy, but possibly as big a problem was the fact a Boresnake "may" help to clean the barrel, but it is ***k all use cleaning the crown and the rest of the gun, people seem to think the barrel is all that matters. I spent the best part of 3 hours cleaning ALL this gun, and now it works! I have to admit that shooting my HMR is different from the CF's. I don't need to clean the CF's near as much as I do my HMR. I find that after a session it is much better to clean the rifle/barrel and oil it before locking it away. I then dry clean the barrel before I go out shooting the next time and it works very well. When I first got it I used to leave the cleaning until I had fired a fair few rounds but the accuracy started to reduce quite drastically. So my conclusion is that if I want maximum efficiency from my HMR then regular cleaning is a must. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 interesting. I just had a bash with mine at the range and it was "OK" but not what I expect. put it down to me having an "off day"! might just give it a serious going over and see what comes out. out of interest what do you think the fouling is, carbon, copper, both? cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I love my Savage HMR and shoot with it on and off and have probably put 1000 rounds through it from new. It has only ever been cleaned with a bore snake and still is the most accurate rifle I have giving me consistent 10p size groups at up to 100 yards. I tend to run the snake through twice, conduct a visual inspection and run it through again if not satisfied and then I spray some oil on the end of the snake and run it through twice more. Every other time its used I give the bolt a good clean and the area around the firing pin without going too overboard or stripping anything down too far. When I first fire it next time its a little bit smokey on the first shot. I guess burning any surface coat of oil in the barrel but then is perfect. Not saying this is right or wrong just saying thats what seems to work for me. Maybe I havent put enough through it to tell if my shortcut approach to cleaning is doing any long term damage or effecting accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Have you now seen the light then Ellebarto ? I'll say it one more time - Boresnakes are for airguns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Have you now seen the light then Ellebarto ? I'll say it one more time - Boresnakes are for airguns. Lol you appear not to have read my post! Why would I do anything other than use the bore snake in the way I describe above if I can group shots like that using my current cleaning method?? Maybe my rifle is just better than yours??!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 10p groups? I would have sold it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 10p groups? I would have sold it Seriously a 10p group is easily enough for my quarry at that range. Some people are old school and dont want to think there might be another way! I have my method, it works, I'm happy! Probably need to give it much better clean at some stage but havent found it yet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'd question the use of a bore snake on any rifle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 I'd question the use of a bore snake on any rifle? Dont really agree with you and Ive seen no evidence with my personal experience to suggest otherwise. I am only shooting rimfires though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlander Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Only because I assume people who use a snake do so without using a bore guide and may also run it through from the muzzle/crown of the barrel. I believe more barrels are ****'d by stripping the bore or crown than any other damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellebarto Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 Only because I assume people who use a snake do so without using a bore guide and may also run it through from the muzzle/crown of the barrel. I believe more barrels are ****'d by stripping the bore or crown than any other damage. I'd never considered that. It's never even ocurred to me to put the snake down that way! I've had some banter with people on this subject in general and when you just consider the physical act and action of the bore snake against a rod, I really dont get the fuss. The contact of the brass jag and the swab are going to be, if anything, more consistent and concentrated than a rod and in the wrong hands a rod can do more damage than good! Ah well. Each to there own! Might put another thousand through my HMR and find a few flyers and be eating my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted May 17, 2011 Report Share Posted May 17, 2011 so if you use a boresnake you need to use a bore guide with it :blink: personally I use one for regular cleaning then a rod for a deep clean, realistically a lot of people only rod every 6 months or less. rather than no cleaning in between a bore snake lets you clean a fair amount of crud out and run some oil through if its been damp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 Many of you will know I'm not a big fan of Boresnakes, and certainly not on small calibres...so here we go. To set the scene a pal has recently purchased a Used 17HMR privately. He has never had a HMR before and was supplied with a Boresnake by the previous owner who assured him it was all he needed. This was the best part of 3 weeks ago, we have spoken many times about it and he was having all sorts of grief getting any sort of a group out of it. We went out on Thursday and the pattern was terrible. He had cleaned the gun himself with the Boresnake (Dry) and checked all the usual things, like a twit I piped up about boresnakes and offered to clean it properly for him. In truth, we obviously do not know how well/often the previous owner had cleaned it, but my pal most certainly had used the boresnake on it. First thing I noticed was how filthy the crown was when I took the mod off, that sorted I set about the barrel....this was the result, first patch was top right going left, then bottom row from left to right, brush/solvent scrubbed between each patch! To cut a long story short I spent nearly 3 hours giving the whole rifle a serious clean. Fortunately my efforts have been rewarded, just had a call from a much relieved guy, still out in the field, saying he is over the moon, it works and the groups are brilliant! Now then, I am not trying to start a war here, and if you clean by any method (or don't clean at all) and it works for you then fine, this was just a situation and set of circumstances! Cleaning DRY is the issue here to my mind cleaning (if that is the correct word) dry is going to make any gun shoot worse than no cleaning. Solvent of some sort is paramount to the process. Personally i prefer pull through type cleaning for all rimfires but will only dry patch after useing good solvents. often faced with a gun that just wont shoot i will plug the bore and fill it with one of the milder solvents and just leave it to soak a good few hours before commencing any cleaning. Generally the HMR gets the wet boresnake and the .22 a home made jobbie with Nylon coated fishing wire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadioles Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 (edited) I am with Dekers on this one and although I bought a Bore Snake I don't use it because I don't like the idea of the built in brass brush helping to round off the crown or chamber end as it gets pulled through, probably at an angle. I use Dewey rods and patches with solvents and most importantly a Bore Guide. I had to get the bore guide for my Anschutz .17hmr from Sinclair in USA as they were not available in UK at the time. Sometimes I use the sheepskin pull through rod attachment thingy and very rarely the bronze equivalent. Stabbing a patch on the end of the pointed bit that screws onto the end of the rod and adding a couple of drops of solvent is thorough and gentle and you can see exactly how much muck is coming off - as in Dekers photo's. Rimfire Magic supplied my patches (big bag very cheap lasts ages) and rods and bore guide etc. for the .22 and also, apart from the bore guide, for the hmr. The hmr is a pretty tight fit and pushing a rod with patch through it requires a bit of "tapping" to move it through, it gets easier as it gets cleaner. I say again.... A bore guide is essential. Edited May 18, 2011 by dadioles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 18, 2011 Report Share Posted May 18, 2011 interesting. I just had a bash with mine at the range and it was "OK" but not what I expect. put it down to me having an "off day"! might just give it a serious going over and see what comes out. out of interest what do you think the fouling is, carbon, copper, both? cheers To be honest most of the gunk I clean from the barrel is carbon and it is more apparent when you tap the moderator on a desk. The carbon comes out like grains of powder. I always use a rod and jag pushing through with a dry patch first just to get the **** out. I then douse a patch in cleaner and push that through and wait a couple of minutes. I then push a patch through a half dozen times which normally gets it reasonably clean. I then put some Tetra cleaner and lube through it once and leave it until I am going to use it again when I dry patch it a couple of times. Every 500 rounds I will give the barrel a good brush out with a copper solvent then dry and lube it and spray the moderator inside with WD40 and leave it to stand until I am ready to use it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted May 19, 2011 Report Share Posted May 19, 2011 I am with Dekers on this one and although I bought a Bore Snake I don't use it because I don't like the idea of the built in brass brush helping to round off the crown or chamber end as it gets pulled through, probably at an angle. I use Dewey rods and patches with solvents and most importantly a Bore Guide. I had to get the bore guide for my Anschutz .17hmr from Sinclair in USA as they were not available in UK at the time. Sometimes I use the sheepskin pull through rod attachment thingy and very rarely the bronze equivalent. Stabbing a patch on the end of the pointed bit that screws onto the end of the rod and adding a couple of drops of solvent is thorough and gentle and you can see exactly how much muck is coming off - as in Dekers photo's. Rimfire Magic supplied my patches (big bag very cheap lasts ages) and rods and bore guide etc. for the .22 and also, apart from the bore guide, for the hmr. The hmr is a pretty tight fit and pushing a rod with patch through it requires a bit of "tapping" to move it through, it gets easier as it gets cleaner. I say again.... A bore guide is essential. Damaging the crown with a boresnake? by pulling through at an angle? good grief you would need to be such a hamfist that a solid cleaning rod would be a dangerous implement in your hands, you might stab yourself or something Seriously it like gotta be far worse poking a solid rod through then having to pull it back in reverse (neither way is wrong or right if you take it to extreames like that) I still belive in a bore guide even with a snake as it helps keep solvent out of places it shouldn't be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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