garyb Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Came across this post on the UK Long range forum. This topic comes up from time to time on PW, I wonder if this will add any weight to the argument that's been doing the rounds for years that there is no difference between them!? Gents, For those who may be interested I have cut longitudinal sections through AMax and VMax bullets. The top section is of a 224 AMax 52gr and the bottom a 224 VMax 55 gr. The bullets were embedded in Epoxy resin in a piece of PVC and machined on a vertical mill with a endmill cutter. There appears to be very little difference between the two and the performance may well be the same. I have no experience, as yet, of comparing these two bullets in field conditions, so I leave it to the experts on this Forum. I hope that this is of some interest. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Good find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 the tail profile and slightly different ogive seem to be the only difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) Please note the different bullet weights too... 52grn v 55grn Sadly Hornady don't make a decent 6mm foxing bullet in the A-max range. I do hear very good things about their 155grn 30cal though. Edited June 8, 2011 by garyb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 (edited) silly question but why isn't that a suitable bullet for foxing? assuming we are saying expansion is similar is the only perk to A max that you can post them or am I missing something, totally irrelevant now you've edited and added 6mm Edited June 8, 2011 by al4x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted June 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 They only make 105grn in 6mm (243) too heavy for my needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 the tail profile and slightly different ogive seem to be the only difference. Good eyes, but I think you'd have had trouble if the lower profile had been a 50gr V. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Good eyes, but I think you'd have had trouble if the lower profile had been a 50gr V. Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Bullets can be similar in shape yet perform differently from the different metalagy you cannot see look at the tails of these bullets i cant see why they went to all that trouble and didn't notice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I can see how they might perform differently in terms of flight dynamics, but I don't believe different materials are used between the two and I can't see expansion being very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 I can see how they might perform differently in terms of flight dynamics, but I don't believe different materials are used between the two and I can't see expansion being very different. Oh yes, bullet manufacturers spend a lot of time on lead hardness antimony etc. Hornady are very much at the forefront in this regards, also the way in which the jacket bonds to the lead etc. I am not saying they are 100% different in this case only Hornady can tell you that. If it was worthwhile spending the time and effort the way of knowing would be to fire a few samples into a test medium OR contact Hornady and pose the question perhaps? Terminal balistics is a very advanced thing nowadays, all Nosler B/Tips look similar though Nosler are very upfront about the facts they are not and are designed for rapid or controled expantion depending on calibre linked directly to weight and intended use. Its a fasinating subject in its own right when you spend a lttle time on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Oh yes, bullet manufacturers spend a lot of time on lead hardness antimony etc. Hornady are very much at the forefront in this regards, also the way in which the jacket bonds to the lead etc. I am not saying they are 100% different in this case only Hornady can tell you that. If it was worthwhile spending the time and effort the way of knowing would be to fire a few samples into a test medium OR contact Hornady and pose the question perhaps? Terminal balistics is a very advanced thing nowadays, all Nosler B/Tips look similar though Nosler are very upfront about the facts they are not and are designed for rapid or controled expantion depending on calibre linked directly to weight and intended use. Its a fasinating subject in its own right when you spend a lttle time on it If you have a search of the internet, the A-Max bullets seem to mushroom quite nicely. Along with that. It seems to expend a lot of energy in a short space of time. Finally, there are quite a few images of vermin shot with the A-Max and they look more like a Varmint Grenade has hit them. All in all, I'm sold Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 Like i say Hornady could tell us if they chose to at least, we can only test and sumise . v- max are meant to fragment more than mushroom being a varmint bullet. without the info or personal hands on testing i certainly wouldn't use them staight on quarry and tecnically illegal on deer. i cannot actually see why you would want to when v-max etc. is widely available. Berger do a bullet that tumbles rather than expands and they list it for both live quarry and target, again issues with legislation here in regard Deer. Some friends tested Matchkings on a trip were thier use was legal and reported very poor performance, yet they are commonly used in the states by the long range crew. Again speed is critical in what a bullet does terminally 20 yds is often way different than 200 yds, i just like the assurance that i am using the right stuff from the get go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 8, 2011 Report Share Posted June 8, 2011 i cannot actually see why you would want to when v-max etc. is widely available. Correct me if I'm wrong, but A-Max can be ordered online. Saves a bit of hassle, especially if you can get them cheap in the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted June 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Billy correct. They are classed as Non expanding target bullets. Rightly or Wrongly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but A-Max can be ordered online. Saves a bit of hassle, especially if you can get them cheap in the States. If you are ordering from the states why worry you can order expanding fine Personally I still can't see what the issue is if you want a deer bullet buy one if you want a vermin bullet then buy one if you want a target bullet then the same applies. For how long 100 bullets lasts reloading wise on deer you might as well just buy what you really want. I have to say I've got a fair few different bullets for my .243 but so far sierra soft points seem to make most things dead so may not swap around as much as I thought I would Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 If you are ordering from the states why worry you can order expanding fine Oh yeah.. Do remind me what that American company you ordered your last batch from. I recall looking over their site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 http://www.cliffsgunsmithing.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Correct me if I'm wrong, but A-Max can be ordered online. Saves a bit of hassle, especially if you can get them cheap in the States. Personally i should rather buy bullets designed and sold for purpose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 A-max bullets expand very well. They are terrific for vermin, and while legal, they make big holes in deer so best avoided. For a 22 cal CF for fox/rsbbit use though they are very good. Plastic tip is soft so they qualify for legality on deer. Following US opinion I tried a 178 30 cal amax on bambi, the exit was bigger than my fist. On rabbits, the same bullet basically caused it to explode. Nosler fit a much thicker jacket and base to their deer ballistic tips, so they aren't so bad on deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 Personally i should rather buy bullets designed and sold for purpose From the photo above, they really are identical. I don't know why people are saying the boat tail is different and that this will change things. You'd have to load them backwards to see a difference here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beardo Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 thought i'd drop Hornady an email "there is no metallurgical or bonding difference between the two." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted June 9, 2011 Report Share Posted June 9, 2011 (edited) thought i'd drop Hornady an email "there is no metallurgical or bonding difference between the two." Edited June 9, 2011 by Billy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 thought i'd drop Hornady an email "there is no metallurgical or bonding difference between the two." Well that`s that sorted then ! Nice one Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted June 10, 2011 Report Share Posted June 10, 2011 They are terrific for vermin, and while legal, they make big holes in deer so best avoided. Not in my experience they don't, they work perfectly. thought i'd drop Hornady an email "there is no metallurgical or bonding difference between the two." Don't go bringing actual facts into internet arguments Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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