Doctors Meeting

[HDAV]

The FEO did visit, interviewed him on his own without me there and was more than 100% happy with him. I've been told by the firearms manager the only thing that's stopped his grant is the mis-information supplied by a GP who doesn't even know him or anything about Aspergers.

Thats a real shame and i can see why your having such a tough time! Can you change GP's?

[phaedra1106]

I've rang every surgery in the area, none have any GPs with insight into Autistic Spectrum Disorders, that was how I got in touch with the area Health Trust who advised me to write to the GP again.

[Peppergun]

Mystical creatures and spells aside, WOW in its simplest from is still a game to kill other characters by having a stronger one.

I still fail to see why he needs a SGC, the issues you have mentioned are transport based as per previous posts.

[celestialspore]

 

I still fail to see why he needs a SGC, the issues you have mentioned are transport based as per previous posts.

 

Having read this thread, I agree.

[phaedra1106]

Looked at that way the majority of people who hold SGCs and only shoot clay pigeon at clubs don't need one either, they too could borrow a club gun to shoot with. Our club doesn't have a dedicated club gun, new members and visitors usually borrow one from our chairman or another member if they are willing. This would not be possible if he wanted to do a full shoot, 4 stands of 10 birds each with around 6 shooters per group takes time and would tie up the gun so anyone needing it on the practice trap would be unable to shoot. Also not all members would be willing to lend anyone else their gun to use especially on such a regular basis.

 

The fact is that he enjoys clay pigeon shooting and has done it safely for several years. He passed the FEOs interview without a problem and for anyone else this would have been enough to allow the grant of a certificate. As it stands this is being prevented by a GP who has provided incorrect information to the police and expressed an unfounded opinion on someone he does not even know.

Edited June 28, 2011 by phaedra1106

[Mungler]

A driving license is normally more important to a young man rather that a gun license.

 

Has he got a provisional or had any lessons?

[phaedra1106]

No, both my sons were offered a course of driving lessons for their 21st birthdays and neither of them were interested.

[Mungler]

Has he applied for / got a license (provisional)? Would there be any reason he wouldn't get one?

 

I would have thought that applying for and getting a provisional would count as a "positive" in any later questions about responsibility etc in the SGC process.

[phaedra1106]

No, he has never applied as (like his elder brother) he has no interest in driving. I have a friend who is a BSM driving instructor and he reckons there would be no problem with him if he did decide to drive, there is no mdeical reason why he couldn't drive if he wanted to.

 

Autistic Spectrum Disorders are exteremely varied and in the case of Aspergers even more difficult difficult to notice or diagnose, it wasn't until he was 15 that he was properly diagnosed, before that the school just kept telling us he was lazy and disinterested in doing his work. One of the biggest problems is that when you tell someone he is Autistic they immediately think of Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, nothing could be further from the truth, anyone meeting him without knowing about his Aspergers would assume he's just a bit shy of strangers.

 

In the years since his original diagnosis he has came a long way, he still has a way to go but he has never been a threat to others or harmed anyone. I know I'm obviously biased in my view of him but given a 5+ year history of safe shooting, passing not 1 but 3 clubs required probationary monitoring periods and safety requirements and being qualified for his Shooter Certification Card I feel he is way past the level at which almost anyone else would be considered acceptable to hold not only an SGC but an FAC as well.

[Canis]

No, he has never applied as (like his elder brother) he has no interest in driving. I have a friend who is a BSM driving instructor and he reckons there would be no problem with him if he did decide to drive, there is no mdeical reason why he couldn't drive if he wanted to.

 

 

Normally Mungler puts things incredibly suscinctly however I wonder if you get the twin reasons for him suggesting the Driving lessons.

 

Firstly If you can get him to pass a driving test and obtain a a driving license it would show to the world that he is qualified and licensed to operate a complex 1.5 tonne piece of machinery that show that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly. Surely then a SGC is only the licence to operate a 7lb piece of machinery that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly.

 

The second point of this though is that you have talked about this being about preparing him for when you are not arround to care for him and being able to drive is one of the life skills that will make his life a hell of a lot easier when you can't drive him about anymore. He may not be "interested" in driving in the same way that i'm not "interested" in using a washing machine or washing dishes but they are all life skills that one needs to survive on your own.

[Canis]

(edit - double post}

Edited June 28, 2011 by Canis

[artschool]

Normally Mungler puts things incredibly suscinctly however I wonder if you get the twin reasons for him suggesting the Driving lessons.

 

Firstly If you can get him to pass a driving test and obtain a a driving license it would show to the world that he is qualified and licensed to operate a complex 1.5 tonne piece of machinery that show that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly. Surely then a SGC is only the licence to operate a 7lb piece of machinery that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly.

 

The second point of this though is that you have talked about this being about preparing him for when you are not arround to care for him and being able to drive is one of the life skills that will make his life a hell of a lot easier when you can't drive him about anymore. He may not be "interested" in driving in the same way that i'm not "interested" in using a washing machine or washing dishes but they are all life skills that one needs to survive on your own.

 

thats good advice.

 

i would question why he doesnt want to drive a car but wants a shotgun? its not the easiest thing to carry on public transport.

[Gordon R]

Not for the first time - I am in total agreement with Mungler. A driving licence would be a definite plus. Although your son might have no interest in driving, could you explain the possible benefits of having one? That said, no-one would wish to build his hopes up if got a driving licence and still failed to get an SGC.

 

I admire the way you support your son and wish you both well, but fear that you may hit the brick wall of medical opinion.

 

I would seek to persuade a change in the damning verdict rather than try to demand one or take a witness. The GP will react badly, I suspect.

 

Good luck to the pair of you.

[Mungler]

Normally Mungler puts things incredibly suscinctly however I wonder if you get the twin reasons for him suggesting the Driving lessons.

 

Firstly If you can get him to pass a driving test and obtain a a driving license it would show to the world that he is qualified and licensed to operate a complex 1.5 tonne piece of machinery that show that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly. Surely then a SGC is only the licence to operate a 7lb piece of machinery that is notorious for killing people if used incorrectly.

 

The second point of this though is that you have talked about this being about preparing him for when you are not arround to care for him and being able to drive is one of the life skills that will make his life a hell of a lot easier when you can't drive him about anymore. He may not be "interested" in driving in the same way that i'm not "interested" in using a washing machine or washing dishes but they are all life skills that one needs to survive on your own.

 

 

You are correct, but there is more.... I don't know of a 17 year old on the planet who doesn't want to drive and those that don't because they can't afford the insurance would still jump at the chance of a provisional license and getting 1 foot on the driving ladder.

 

Going further, given that the chap in question is going to face all manner of obstacles in the future, just having applied to DVLA and been accepted for a provisional driving licence is a major advance and feather in cap.

 

My own thoughts are that a driving license may be a problem and there is a reason which is not being laid out on this thread, because it would kill it stone dead would it not? The driving licence is a double edged sword - if he has one, well that's a real boost to any argument with a quack or plod. If he's been refused one or is likely to be refused upon application (for whatever reason) then the quack and plod will hide behind that refusal "well if DVLA wouldn't approve a driving licence then we couldn't possibly consider...."

 

If your son can get a driving licence then he really ought to apply for one even if he has no intention of ever driving

Edited June 28, 2011 by Mungler

[phaedra1106]

Firstly thanks to everyone for the advice.

 

Driving, neither he nor his brother have any interest in learning to drive, nothing else to it, they just aren't interested. His grandfather offered to pay for driving lessons for him, his brother and his four cousins when they each reached 18, only 2 of his cousins took up the offer so maybe it runs in the family!.

 

Getting a provisional license, based on what I've been told by a qualified BSM driving instructor (who teaches both able and diabled learner drivers) and who has known him for most of his life there wouldn't be any problem getting one. There's nothing hidden or not being talked about, ask anything you want and I will answer truthfully.

 

I do appreciate that a driving license would be very handy for him to have, and I understand that having one would also be of benefit in dealings with the police, however, as I said before he's completed every requirement for holding an SGC or FAC and it's only the GPs opinion and incorrect information that he gave to the police that's a problem with his application.

[HDAV]

I do appreciate that a driving license would be very handy for him to have, and I understand that having one would also be of benefit in dealings with the police, however, as I said before he's completed every requirement for holding an SGC or FAC and it's only the GPs opinion and incorrect information that he gave to the police that's a problem with his application.

Can you get a meeting with the GP,Practise manager,FEO and your son?

[phaedra1106]

That would be a good idea, I will ring the FEO tomorrow and see if he can attend a meeting, it may be better to have him get in touch with the surgery and arrange the meeting to suit his timetable.

 

The head of the practice (the GP who we first saw last September) doesn't want to be involved and has done a u-turn and is now denying we had a meeting about him applying and that it was just mentioned in passing as we were leaving which is completely untrue.

[J@mes]

How is he going to get to all his shooting sports if he doesn't drive and can't rely on you due to illness? You mention it is long distances on public transport and not all transport can get him to the site?

 

Ok so he shows no interest, have you told him that if he wants to shoot he HAS to drive, unless someone is going to ferry him around everywhere when you are unable to? How do you think he would react to that?

[phaedra1106]

He has a personal assistant who is taking her test later this year, if needed he could employ another personal assistant who can drive. Their role is to expand his social development and independence, for example by going shopping or out for lunch with friends, they are not there to shop or do things for him just to be there for support or guidance if required. He can use public transport, he went to Middlesbrough for 2 days on his own by bus, an hours journey each way and used to go to college by bus (50mins each way) for three years.

 

It's not as simple as telling him he needs to be able to drive, with Aspergers progress is made slowly, sometimes very slowly if he has no interest in changing things, even now after 5 years he still has to be told when to get showered, but when it's something he's interestd in doing (like shooting, archery, going out for a meal etc.) then he makes much better progress.

[apache]

I read this thread and feel uncomfortable.

 

I agree a driving licence would be a bloody good starting point, even if he used it to drive a 49cc moped.

 

On the information given here [if I was an FEO] would I grant a SGC/FAC - no.

 

If I was a doctor would I support the application - no.

 

My reasons - there is a small amount of doubt and we are talking about a mental illness where a person is less than normally able to interact with others. Imagine the very remote possibility if something went wrong - imagine the fun the press would have with the police and doctor for supporting the application.

 

If the application is withdrawn he can continue to shoot as a club member. If he is refused then he can't shoot under the general exemption.

 

PCP air rifles?

[artschool]

Two personal assistants! You must be loaded.

 

Why not hire a solicitor who specialises in firearms to sort out the sgc problems?

[phaedra1106]

Apache - Aspergers is not a mental illness, it's a developmental issue, there is a huge difference between the two.

 

You may be uncomfortable with the idea of someone with Aspergers holding an SGC but he has been assessed/vetted by the FEO and 3 different clubs, all without a problem, they all regard him as being a safe shooter and suitable to hold one.

 

Artschool - no, we are not loaded, he gets a whole 10 hours of support per week and we had to fight for almost 3 years to get that, we can use the 10 hours to pay however many PAs are needed, we do not get any of the money, the PA receives the payment for his/her time.

[Wharf Rat]

Sorry - I will admit I haven't read the entire thread, so may be repeating something. Have you asked around shooting friends to see who can help? Not only are some GPs/MDs sympathetic, but Accredited Medical Health Practitioners amongst social workers could give an accurate assesment for your lad. They tend to be more pro-family orientated therapy than the medical chaps. Child psychologists and psychotherapists are also worth a try - they specialise in kids, your GP doesn't. He can have any special restriction imposed by the CC - why not (at worst)that he has a carer present? Best of luck.

[phaedra1106]

Thanks for the input

 

He's now 21, his social worker is worse than useless and the "help" we have received from Durham Social Services and the County Council is almost non-existant. They dumped him under the Mental Health Team even though they agree Autism/Aspergers isn't a mental illness, the problem is that Mental Health are not providing any support for him at all and have no idea how to do so. The only decent help he had was when I found out about the Transistions Service for 16 to 18 year olds, unfortunately I only found out about it when he was 17-1/2, our GP and Social Services both failed to tell us about it, as a result he only had 6 sessions but they were enough to gain a better insight into his condition and some of the reasons for his dependence on me (his mum walking out and having virtually no contact with him) and this has enabled us to make better progress towards him being independent.

 

The GP has said that they can't arrange an assessment by a psychologist as his is not an urgent case and there are no issues with him that need addressed (so how is unsuitable for an SGC then??). As for a carer that would be me, he has 10 hours support a week from a personal assistant, the other 158 hours are left to me, I'm also disabled (physical) and get no help at all. I do have an Occupational Therapist coming to assess me today, that appointment has taken over 6 months to get, I originally requested it through my sons social worker who told me he couldn't do it as they now farm out such things to the carers team and would get it done uregently. He then did nothing for 3 months, I rang him and asked him to get it sorted, another 3 months with nothing and I went directly to the carers service and asked what was going on, they hadn't had any request for me to have an assessment and they don't arrange them, he does :(

 

They rang him and about 2 weeks later he got in touch with them, another week later and I got an appointment which she then cancelled and now she's coming today. Hopefully she's better than the last one we saw about 6 years ago who after putting in a walk in shower that's too small an leaks all over the floor then came back 5 years later and said my house is too small to adapt and we needed something larger like a 2 bed bungalow, considering I had 3 kids here and we live in a 3 bed semi this was complete b@ll@cks, I then found out he was sacked shortly afterwards.