Trefil Hunter Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 i have started reloading for my tikka t3 .243 using 70gr nosler bt with varget powder. but i have been getting low velocities due to the short barrel on my rifle as its only 20 inches. i did get an accurate load but it was less than 1300 ft/lb. even at max it was just over 3100 fps but accuracy had gone. i have run quite a few combinations through quickload and it seems like i am going to struggle to get decent velocities from the rifle. im not really sure where to go with this rifle now, whether to keep throwing money at it in the hope of getting a decent load or just to change rifle for a longer barreled one? any help and advice would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Have a look at this site for load data for short barrelled .243's.... http://www.loaddata.com/members/search_detail.cfm?MetallicID=285 It helped me a lot when I had mine chopped. Also, it seems you can get a fair bit more energy if you up the bullet weight a bit o perhaps you should consider trying that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 from the info ive got it seems that even with a 100gr its only just over 1700 ft/lbs and the factory ammo i have tried it doesnt really like the 100gr. as i will be using it for deer i would like to have some margin of error for being deer legal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 If you want a short barrelled Deer rifle .308 seems to be the way to go. They actually throw out some quite reasonable energy when chopped. .243 is a tough one to work with if you have a short barrel. They're great foxing rifles but if you're after the dreaded 1700ft-lbs it can be quite a challenge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 seems its a big challenge with this one. as for a 308 i would need 2 rifles then and would be on closed condition for the 308. i have thought about a rebarrel but for the cost which could be put to a new rifle instead. a 22 or 24 inch barrel would be ideal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 from the info ive got it seems that even with a 100gr its only just over 1700 ft/lbs and the factory ammo i have tried it doesnt really like the 100gr. as i will be using it for deer i would like to have some margin of error for being deer legal Accuracy is the important thing, and I would forget 70grs and move forward to 87gr or 95gr ( if your rifle doesnt like 100gr) Yes we know what the legal requirement is for deer in the uk but the deer doesnt, I don't know of anyone whos had there gun taken away and ballistics try and piece together a spent bullets velocity. Shot placement on deer is the key so I wouldnt worry to much about muzzle ftlbs, have you tried differant powder, H414 works well in 20inch barrels,especially with 87gr vmax. A small fast bullet makes more mess and as said in previous post a heavier bullet will help build pressure in a short barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 What other powders does Quickload suggest to give you the velocity you require? Agree with the above H414 is very good in heavy weight .243Win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 A chap I know swears by 95gr Nosler BT and he knows his stuff. He's shot hundreds of deer, probably a similar number of foxes and that's the bullet he always uses. Maybe you should give them a try before giving up on the setup you have now? It was the bullet I was going to try until I decided I'd rather jut buy something bigger! Which brings me on to the next question... Why if you don't have restrictions on your .243 would you be given restrictions on a .308? Once you hit the Deer calibres you can usually chop and change without the police adding extra terms to your FAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 according to quickload the only powders that will give me over 3200fps with the 70s is blc2 and rl17 without pressure going too high. as for bullets its depends on what i can get feo told me when i applied for the 243 he was willing to grant open on it but i wanted anything bigger it would be on a closed condition and for deer only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 seems its a big challenge with this one. as for a 308 i would need 2 rifles then and would be on closed condition for the 308. i have thought about a rebarrel but for the cost which could be put to a new rifle instead. a 22 or 24 inch barrel would be ideal There is no need to change your gun, reloading or getting a rifle to the required accuracy can be aright pain in the rear and it can cost a bit in bullets to get in right. Your rifle is a good choice,if not THE choice of many lowland deer stalkers. Rather than invest in loads of differant bullet weights your going to have to find some factory ammo your gun likes first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 i found some with both federal 70gr bt and 80gr soft point. it took me ages with my 222 to get it right and never did with my 204 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Trefil, you need to use the fastest powder you can get away with behind the heaviest bullet it will propel. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 There is no problem with a 20" barrel getting it Deer legal, there is a problem with 70 grn varmint bullets and deer from a .243" there will be a 100 grn bullet it will shoot i promise you 100% . Look on the recent thread of .243" loads, you need a 100 grn bullet to be legal on anything other than Roe in Scotland anyway. Your not getting what you should with those 70's either, something is amiss there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 according to quickload the only powders that will give me over 3200fps with the 70s is blc2 and rl17 without pressure going too high. as for bullets its depends on what i can get Dont rely on quickload being the answer to all, rifles vary. Recently I was given some quickload info from someone and the data from my lee reloading 2nd edition manual was more accurate on the speed( which may relate back to pressure to.) Have mentioned this before but rifle builders Brock and Noris reckon viht 160 is the best 243 powder,for the heavier bullets anyway. I have had good results with h414 in my 20inch remmy 700, try a start load of 39gns of h414 with 95gr bullets, work up in 0.5grs and don't exceed 42gns of powder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 to be honest i dont know what was going on with the 70s. as for h414 when i asked for it in my local gunshop they didnt stock any. i want a bt for fox as i dont like using sp on them so maybe a switch to 87gr is a good option and get some 100gr sp too and make up a few loads of each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Ok the answer is fairly straightforward and easy to achieve. My sako 85 in .243 is 20 1/4 according to the spec so I can back it up with more than theory my current deer bullet is 85grn sierra soft points, these need to be just over 3000 fps to get the 1700ftlbs this requires in mine approx 37 grains of varget, 36 gets you to 2950fps so is just under thats chronoed so actual figures. From that point obviously the heavier the bullet the slower it can go and still make the desired figure, Foxing wise a 75grn vmax shoots an inch lower than these so with a little extra powder I should be able to get both loads shooting same POI and be able to use either depending what I'm after. Interestingly a factory 55grn federal bullet is an inch and a half high at 100 yards but the line is spot on so really I could with minor adjustment use them as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnum Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 (edited) Ok the answer is fairly straightforward and easy to achieve. My sako 85 in .243 is 20 1/4 according to the spec so I can back it up with more than theory my current deer bullet is 85grn sierra soft points, these need to be just over 3000 fps to get the 1700ftlbs this requires in mine approx 37 grains of varget, 36 gets you to 2950fps so is just under thats chronoed so actual figures. From that point obviously the heavier the bullet the slower it can go and still make the desired figure, Foxing wise a 75grn vmax shoots an inch lower than these so with a little extra powder I should be able to get both loads shooting same POI and be able to use either depending what I'm after. Interestingly a factory 55grn federal bullet is an inch and a half high at 100 yards but the line is spot on so really I could with minor adjustment use them as well. just like al4x im useing 85 sierra SP but with 38 gr of h4895 but just got some 87gr v max for foxing only cos could not get any 75 gr puting the same amount of powder in all 3? inch drop between the sierra and v max Edited July 11, 2011 by magnum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggy11 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Sako 85 stainless synthetis, not that that makes a differance. I use 90 grain nosler ballistic tips ( they are made heavier in the case to use on deer, so not a varmint bullet) im pushing those with 43 grains of H414 with Lapua brass. Im using 80 grain varmint nosler BT and pusing those with 44.5 grains of H414. Both have pretty much same POA at 100 yds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foggy11 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Interestingly , my last rifle, which was a Howa, with the same length barrel and the same twist. I worked up loads for both and every bullet i have used has ended up about half a garin away from max loads using H414 and the data taken from Lee loading manual. I have my bullets seated 20 thou away from the land, but im going to experiment with that soon, when i get the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Browning Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Yes we know what the legal requirement is for deer in the uk but the deer doesnt, I don't know of anyone whos had there gun taken away and ballistics try and piece together a spent bullets velocity. Shot placement on deer is the key so I wouldnt worry to much about muzzle ftlbs Good advice if you want to risk having your FAC revoked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 so high and mighty on the long range thread but willing to break the deer laws The other thing to be wary of is Hogdons data is way off velocity wise from a little bit of testing we did with 2 rifles so don't rely on book data when working it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 i have just got hold of some 87gr vmax and some 100gr sp and some h414 so hopefully will be able to get some good results. will keep you updated when i get a chance to go out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I'd lay money the 87's shoot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 I think you'd be pretty unlucky to lose your FAC over running slightly under power. There must be hundreds of shooters running factory ammo through these shorter barrelled rifles - if you're not that keen and just have a rifle to do a job you may not even be aware of this problem. You'd get a grilling I'm sure but let face it, when are these things ever checked? If you're stopped when out shooting Deer and there's .243 stamped on the barrel of your rifle I'd say you're going to be bloody unlucky if things go any further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trefil Hunter Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 deer are going to be shot at shorter ranges anyway so as long as the accuracy is somewhat decent then ill be happy. as long as the 87s group under an inch then thats what i want and a half decent velocity as for the deer legal bit i would rather be safe than sorry. knowing my luck i would be the one to get pulled up on it :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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