Gillaroo Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) Down this way there seems to be a real gundog trend at the mo' for cockers and fox red labs. I openly admit I'm a springer man and cannot for the life of me see why these two types in particular command a higher price and almost single-mindedness from potential owners in wanting one compared to the good old black lab and ESS? Is it like this all over the country or a "gotta keep up with the neighbours" south east thing? Best dogs I have EVER seen work are either black labs, springers or a couple of particular collies in the beating line. Just curious really and would like to hear why people chose these when buying a gundog. Surely it can't be because they work better or are easier to train or am I missing something? Some seem to be almost double the price for a pup! Cheers all. Mike Edited November 16, 2011 by Gillaroo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Quite simply beacuse they are different (fox red labs) people will pay a premium due to this fact, as far as cockers go, market demands, more people want one as they are smaller, less to feed and clean up and dare i say it cuter (lots of females owning cockers for beating and picking up) i own both cockers and springers, the springers are as a rule easier to train, but as far as work goes if anything the springer would have the edge on the cocker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattslaptop247 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I had a fox red lab before they were popular , simply because someone was giving her away. Smashing dog with a good peigree. Her owners had downsized home. Ive had a springer, and now I have a cocker. Only chose a cocker this time round, because as you pointed out they are smaller and because of this were better suited to our kiddywinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillaroo Posted November 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 So could it be a case of lets all get black cockers so when one runs in the keeper won't know which one it is? Is this the new "come 'ere you black *******!!!" that labs have had to live with for so long? I'm really talking about pure gundog qualities rather than how much it eats or size of house/family. Cheers for replies. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t jack Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 So could it be a case of lets all get black cockers so when one runs in the keeper won't know which one it is? Is this the new "come 'ere you black *******!!!" that labs have had to live with for so long? I'm really talking about pure gundog qualities rather than how much it eats or size of house/family. Cheers for replies. Mike Sadly 90% of owners won't consider "pure gundog qualitys" they are looking at what is easiest to keep etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FalconFN Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 When I was choosing a dog - part gundog, part family pet - I wanted something that fits in with small kids. ie friendly, not too big and willing to put up with a lot. I also wanted a dark dog because they are less conspicuous in the hide/hedge so in the end I went for a liver cocker. Can't say that cockers were easy to find though, not as many around as ESS so maybe that's why they can be a bit pricey. She's a fantastic dog though and has been very easy to train. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayano3 Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I own a Fox Red Labrador and after having a black bitch previous I didn't really want another that colour straight after losing my lovely old black companion. I had seen only one more Fox Red lab and liked what I saw so searched for the right dog for my requirements. You will find that a Fox Red does not show up as much as a Black colour in the dark, in fact she has stood next to me and I have been looking for her. She is just as good as my Black Lab was if not better, but if I could not have found the right dog (pedigree, blood lines, eyes hips etc) I would have been satisfied with a Black Lab but would have waited a bit longer. The bitch I purchased was far from cheap but that has nothing to do with colour etc that was down to its credentials and being part trained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 I suppose it's just fashion. Personally I don't see me ever having a cocker, they are too wee for my liking and IMO spaniel is only a spaniel if it's liver & white I would have a fox red lab though, purely because if you're out at dawn or dusk you can't see them. Little point in me being camo'd head to toe if my dog's white or black silhouette can be seen by anything and everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 My lab is dark yellow not dark enough to be called red BUT by heck he can be hard to spot, blends perfectly in the terrain i hunt in. Ask another question - what the hecks the point of having a bright white spaniel outside of trialing? they stick out like a sore thumb which makes them poor in a hide and way more likely to flare wild birds generally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 My lab is dark yellow not dark enough to be called red BUT by heck he can be hard to spot, blends perfectly in the terrain i hunt in. Ask another question - what the hecks the point of having a bright white spaniel outside of trialing? they stick out like a sore thumb which makes them poor in a hide and way more likely to flare wild birds generally What the heck's the point of having a spaniel in a hide, that's what fox red labs are for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightbarrel Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 (edited) My lab is dark yellow not dark enough to be called red BUT by heck he can be hard to spot, blends perfectly in the terrain i hunt in. Ask another question - what the hecks the point of having a bright white spaniel outside of trialing? they stick out like a sore thumb which makes them poor in a hide and way more likely to flare wild birds generally Racist! Anyway, they're easier to find in the dark!! Edited November 16, 2011 by straightbarrel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiLisCer Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Fox red or dark yellow as they are really was the very first labrador colour - bit like Golden Retrievers should be golden and not white - they have got lighter over the years. I had my first fox red 25 years ago - when the breeder gave it away because it was the wrong colour!! Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 I suppose it's just fashion. Personally I don't see me ever having a cocker, they are too wee for my liking and IMO spaniel is only a spaniel if it's liver & white I would have a fox red lab though, purely because if you're out at dawn or dusk you can't see them. Little point in me being camo'd head to toe if my dog's white or black silhouette can be seen by anything and everything. awh come on Willaim when you could have two boy's lookin like mine you'd change your mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 awh come on Willaim when you could have two boy's lookin like mine you'd change your mind nice try, and nice dogs but not for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 awh you will, you will, you will (in the voice of Mrs.Doyle from Father Ted) :lol: btw William the dvd's are still being used Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 IMO spaniel is only a spaniel if it's liver... Catching on there, WGD - even if liver can sometimes mean golden liver. I would have either a cocker or fox red if they were of working lines and might even have the fox red by choice from a litter (but not at premium price). The red certainly doesn't flare birds away from the hide - but same can be argued - I've seen first-hand - for both yellow Labs and garden variety goldens. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 awh you will, you will, you will (in the voice of Mrs.Doyle from Father Ted) :lol: btw William the dvd's are still being used Well you've plenty raw material now to work with Nigel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archi Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 (edited) A proper SpanielAnd his mum He is available for stud in the norfolk area if of interest Edited November 17, 2011 by archi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Well you've plenty raw material now to work with Nigel you're right William but I'm very happy with the progress of both dogs, I never would have thought I'd have had Bud my ESS huntin this season but he's doin great, he's brilliantly steady and he's retrieving brilliantly too, infact I'd almost over done the dummy work of the summer and he wouldn't take his eyes off me when I'd dummy's with me, he's excellent over water too and loves retrievin from it, my we Cocker Murph is a great wee hunter although he's not did a lot of retrievin yet, he's learning very well on the stop whistle and he's learning to steer nicely too, although he's a liken for rabbits which I hate the site of, i'd to stop taken him to a certain place as it started to become over run with rabbits and it's was ruining him, he would take off after them and not listen to my whistle but hopefully that's sorted now. Thanks again for your help - I'll not forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Racist! Anyway, they're easier to find in the dark!! And they need to be as they are not so steady or tractable as a good lab That you dont need to search for- its doing what you told it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted November 17, 2011 Report Share Posted November 17, 2011 Thanks again for your help - I'll not forget it. Pleasure pal, glad the dogs are doing well for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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