derekbomag Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Hi does anyone know the youngest shotgun certificate holder in the UK i have just found out by law that my brother who as shot at the side of me for 20 years on my permission without a shotgun certificate could be liable for prosecution if caught so as now applied for a shot gun certificate off his own i have also been training my granson since he was 7 years old who is now 9 he as just advanced on to a 20 bore from a 4.10 he could also be liable i am now applying for a licence for him as anyone else had the same problem neither off these shooters want to own there own gun as they always come shooting with me P.S how are our young shooters suppose to learn if they cannot have a go surelly there must be more than me who as let the young ones have a go and they are all breaking the law i think it is time something was done Edited December 11, 2011 by derekbomag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 (edited) Liable for what? There was some noise in the press after some FOI requests that there were some young SGC holders (according to the law they can't buy carts or guns until 18 BASC has some good advice on the matter. http://www.basc.org.uk/en/young-shots/ Sounds like it the "occupier clause" creating issues again i suggest you contact your shooting organisation for clarification. After 20 years i would have thought he would have put in for SGC by now already. Edited December 11, 2011 by HDAV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekbomag Posted December 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Did not bother getting a licence as he does not want own a gun just goes shooting with me we just thought it was another £50 down the drain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 Did not bother getting a licence as he does not want own a gun just goes shooting with me we just thought it was another £50 down the drain IF its your land then no problem IIRC if not your land it's a grey area... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 IF its your land then no problem IIRC if not your land it's a grey area... But one that's never been to court As long as you have permission to be on the land i would be happy doing what you do But on a side note the lads had his own cert since he was 10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinggun Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 When i had my Feo Visit i asked about taking my father shooting as he used to shoot but doesnt have a license any longer and i was then informed of this law about only if you own the land and was told if caught i would possibly also lose my license, now we just go to the clay club together instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshwarrior Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 I would have know issue doing what your doing now and have done in the past as long as you have permission for them to shoot with you on that land. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 When i had my Feo Visit i asked about taking my father shooting as he used to shoot but doesnt have a license any longer and i was then informed of this law about only if you own the land and was told if caught i would possibly also lose my license, now we just go to the clay club together instead. What law? You have to be the 'occupier' If you can define 'occupier' you are one up on those who make the law! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted December 11, 2011 Report Share Posted December 11, 2011 ..on the other hand its just as easy to get a sgc, my lad's had his since he was 7 (he may have been just 8 when it arrived), no problem at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinggun Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) What law? You have to be the 'occupier' If you can define 'occupier' you are one up on those who make the law! I'm only repeating what i was told by the Feo which was the only time a unlicensed person can shoot on private land is when he is personally shooting with the owner only she said not the occupier etc and the unlicensed person can only use the owners gun not another shooters who is there at the same time, the feo said they do usually give anyone found doing this a friendly word of advice the first time but it would be more serious if caught again, She did say that there are so many people out there that were unaware of this law hence the advice first time around, I am a new shooter myself so i'm only passing on what i was told by feo (Dont shoot the messenger ) i have no idea if this is a new law or when it was brought in, i was just as suprised as i was hoping to shoot with unlicensed family but now i have been made aware i'm sure i wouldnt get away with it so i go to the clay ground with family which obviously has a special license for shooters with no certificate as i dont want to risk my ticket when she has already told me once. Edited December 12, 2011 by smokinggun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onefulham Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 (edited) We applied for a SGC for my son because one of the clay places we want to shoot will only allow SGC holders, we only applied for this reason, as he comes with me, and where we normaly go it's no problem going around with a SGC holder, so it felt like a £50 vanity thing. When we applied we were told to wait the few weeks till he was 15,and the FEO gave some tough questions in a very strict interview, (not complaining, he was very professional). Matthew was succesful and is very proud, we were told he was ONLY succesful as we wanted to shoot where a SGC is compulsory, otherwise even though he had a very good interview, he would have had to wait till 18, this is in Bedfordshire and I know not field shooting, but there does seem a De facto policy of interpreting the law to not allow or restrict young SGC holders, at least around here. Edited December 12, 2011 by onefulham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arjimlad Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 A shotgun can be borrowed from the lawful occupier & used in his/her presence. Someone owning the sporting rights or renting them would probably be considered a lawful occupier. Someone with written permission to shoot would probably not be a lawful occupier - they do not occupy the land. I will be putting in for a SGC for my 11yr old son next year, once he manages to hit some more clays with the .410. I hold this gun on my certificate and allow him to use it where the clay club, paying rent, is a lawful occupier of the land and he borrows the gun from an officer of the club (me) & uses it in the officer's presence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekbomag Posted December 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I WOULD LIKE TO THANK EVERYONE FOR THERE HELP /ADVISE MY BROTHER IS NOW GOING TO APPLY FOR HIS OWN LICENCE AND I AM GOING TO GET MY GRANSON HIS OWN LICENCE ASWELL MANY THANKS DEREK AND A HAPPY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU ALL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 I'm only repeating what i was told by the Feo which was the only time a unlicensed person can shoot on private land is when he is personally shooting with the owner only she said not the occupier etc and the unlicensed person can only use the owners gun not another shooters who is there at the same time, the feo said they do usually give anyone found doing this a friendly word of advice the first time but it would be more serious if caught again, She did say that there are so many people out there that were unaware of this law hence the advice first time around, I am a new shooter myself so i'm only passing on what i was told by feo (Dont shoot the messenger ) i have no idea if this is a new law or when it was brought in, i was just as suprised as i was hoping to shoot with unlicensed family but now i have been made aware i'm sure i wouldnt get away with it so i go to the clay ground with family which obviously has a special license for shooters with no certificate as i dont want to risk my ticket when she has already told me once. I sympathise, it is very difficult for new shooters (or old ones) to follow the rules when some FEOs seem ignorant of the actual law or make it up as they go along. Here is the law: SECTION 11(5) FIREARMS ACT 1968 “A person may without holding a shot gun certificate, borrow a shot gun from the occupier of private premises and use it on those premises in the occupier’s presence” So the only question is, what constitutes an "occupier"? And that has never been properly defined in law. It is an unholy mess. Sadly many FEOs seem to rely on the fact that we are all scared of losing our licences and dish out their own interpretation in the hope that we will do as they tell us and not question their authority. Are you brave enough or rich enough to take them to court over this? Probably not. So unfortunately you (we) just have to suck it up. I know a very mature and sensible 16 year old that was refused a licence by the Chief Constable, despite a positive report from the FLO who had actually met and interviewed him, and the support of his local clay club, on the grounds that "no 16 year old is mentally stable enough to own a shotgun" I repeat, they make it up as they go along. The problem is, if we push for clarification of the law and fewer opportunities for the FLOs and CCs to interpret as they wish, we know that the result will be more restrictions on the legal and legitimate shooter with absolutely no consequences for the idiots and lawbreakers that make gun ownership such a taboo in this country. Sorry for the rant. Happy Xmas and New Year to you too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul223 Posted December 13, 2011 Report Share Posted December 13, 2011 thats a bit hard on the lad, my nephew has just turned 16 and recently successfully applied for his FAC after holding a SGC for 4 years, got .22 rf and hmr on his ticket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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