12borejimbo Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Right all, Its probably been done to death and i've done all the searches and hav'nt really found a solution to the problem. I will give you the story, basically I put in for a 243 for a fox and deer rifle, done my DSC1 ect, FEO came round, no problem. After he has spoken to the Chief constable he has said no, because I have no proper deer stalking ground. There is deer on the ground, but the farmer likes to see them. He is a very generous bloke, pays for all my ammo, lets me use his quad, invites me on his pheasant shoots ect, and I want to abide by what the farmer says. What my FEO says is fair enough, he said he will let me have a deer rifle no probs, ie 243,270,308 ect when I get some stalking ground. He said I can have any .22CF I want, and to be honest my FEO says go for a 223, but ive heard a lot about the 22-250. Ive not shot either, shot a .22 hornet plenty of times but I want something bigger, but im naturally drawn to the 22-250 for the flat trajectory and general good things you hear. What I would like to know about is what would you choose out of the two and why, or what have you got? I was looking at 204 Ruger. But thinking of something a lot more manly as it will be slotting a lot of charlie out to 250-300 yards max!!! I will not shoot anything more than that. Im confident, but whats the point??? Everntually I will start homeloading, and the deer rifle I will probaby get is 308, as ive used a mates for 7 years now and its a nice round. Can the wonderful knowledge of PW please help me. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yankeedoodlepigeon Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Could you not book a stalk with a stalker and use this for a reason to get the .243? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magman Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Can i ask why you say you will be shooting a lot of charlie out to 250 -300 yrds ? And i would add if you were i would go 243 for that distance Edited December 19, 2011 by magman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 If you have a need for longer shots then you can justify a 243 for its humane long range fox properties; re-state your case in those terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david hunter Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 the .222 .223 22/250 and hornet are all good foxing rifles.i use a 22/250 with 55g v max rounds stops charlie with devestating results. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Could you not book a stalk with a stalker and use this for a reason to get the .243? Tried that, he said he will try again but rekons he will say no. I said I will let him know in the morning what I decide to do, but Im going to go for a 22cf and wait till I get some proper stalking ground. Can i ask why you say you will be shooting a lot of charlie out to 250 -300 yrds ? And i would add if you were i would go 243 for that distance I wont purposely be shooting them at that range, Im saying a maximum confident range. Ive never shot anything that far, but I would after a lot of target practice when I am confident to do so. My ideal range is as close as I can get, but most foxes ive shot are at 100 - 150 yards. the .222 .223 22/250 and hornet are all good foxing rifles.i use a 22/250 with 55g v max rounds stops charlie with devestating results. I did speak to my gamekeper mate who I do most of my work with. He said "Jim, ive shot a lot of foxes, more than anyone you will ever know in your life, and ive never had one say it wasnt enough for them. But he advised on the 22-250 as thats what he has got, aswell as 243 but I cant get that, well not now anyways as per the reason above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka Joe Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Why not just ask for a 243 for Foxing rifle..?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 If you get on with your farmer just ask him to write you a letter to say you can shoot deer. Get the .243. Job jobbed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 As above, if you get on with the farmer as you do, he sounds OK, he should be happy to give you a suitable letter as he knows that you won't actually be his shooting deer. I got my .243 not long ago, and with North Yorkshire they wouldn't allow me it for foxes either. I had to put deerstalking and fox on the application on the advice of my FEO (not a problem for me as I have land with deer), otherwise I'd only have been allowed a .22 CF. The only thing that might be an issue is if you put in for a .308 in the future as you said you might, I would guess that you wouldn't be allowed to keep the .243 just for foxes. But I'm just guessing on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hi mate.I wanted to start with a .243 Centrefire for Fox Control but my FEO said NO!He offered me .222,.223 or the .22-250.I then done a bit of research and after reading many reviews I decided on the .22-250.,-that was five years ago.Would I change from a .22-250 now-the answer to that is NO!It's a devastatingly fast and flat round that does the job on Charlie well,really well infact!! All the .22CF calibres will do a good job on Charlie but IMO the .22-250 just that something a bit extra-it's a bit special IMO!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12borejimbo Posted December 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Hi mate.I wanted to start with a .243 Centrefire for Fox Control but my FEO said NO!He offered me .222,.223 or the .22-250.I then done a bit of research and after reading many reviews I decided on the .22-250.,-that was five years ago.Would I change from a .22-250 now-the answer to that is NO!It's a devastatingly fast and flat round that does the job on Charlie well,really well infact!! All the .22CF calibres will do a good job on Charlie but IMO the .22-250 just that something a bit extra-it's a bit special IMO!! Alright Mark, yeah I think your right. 22-250 is what im going to go for. Do you use 55 grains? What should I zero it at, 1inch high at 100 yards? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnum Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) had my 243 just for foxing then got deer on it later!! just put in for a 204 and 308 no probs hope its back before xmas i,v shot 2250 very good cal but kicks like a b----- and shoot a 204 out to 200 mts grouping at less than 1/2" at 200 mts thats y gone for the 204 and when you shoot it stays in the scope so you can see it does not kick like a 2250 ian Edited December 19, 2011 by magnum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Alright Mark, yeah I think your right. 22-250 is what im going to go for. Do you use 55 grains? What should I zero it at, 1inch high at 100 yards? I use 50gr Norma V-Max ammo for Fox.It's not cheap ammo but it's quality!Others may say they use Partizan or some other cheap ammo but I like the Norma and it's extremely accurate in my Tikka T3-that's good enough for me!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 You say that the farmer has deer on his ground, who deals with injured or sick animals, this could be an angle for the 243 if the deer are Roe or fallow. He could give you a letter stating that you would be required to cull animals occasionally, that would be grounds enough and having fox and deer on 243 would save you having to buy more than one gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 The .243 calibre is now accepted as suitable for fox, and you do not have to have land where deer are present. Police forces around the country should not oppose an application for one for fox control, should the applicant meet all the other requirements. I use both 22-250 and .243 for foxes. Each calibre has it own merits. But there is a hell of a lot more punch in the .243. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 The .243 calibre is now accepted as suitable for fox, and you do not have to have land where deer are present. Police forces around the country should not oppose an application for one for fox control, should the applicant meet all the other requirements. Not in Gloucestershire olde mate, we have been here before with various calibres and what you can shoot with them, it varys from force to force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 Not in Gloucestershire olde mate, we have been here before with various calibres and what you can shoot with them, it varys from force to force. I understand what you are saying, but my point was that the .243 has been accepted as a stand alone calibre for fox. It used to be for fox, if there were deer on your permission. I had a problem with South Wales police many years ago, when I wanted to up the calibre to .243 for fox control, as well as my 22-250. The police refused flatly, using the 'no deer on my permission' excuse. A telephone call to BASC, and within two weeks, my application was granted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPARKIE Posted December 19, 2011 Report Share Posted December 19, 2011 just get the .22-250 out to the 300yards foxing is easy with this caliber you wont be disapointed and there even better if you reload. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redgum Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Have a look at the fieldsports tv channel, scroll down to the bottom of the Country Sports heading, episode 106, what bullets do to fox's, interesting stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_b_wales Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Have a look at the fieldsports tv channel, scroll down to the bottom of the Country Sports heading, episode 106, what bullets do to fox's, interesting stuff. I saw it the other day, and it was interesting. I, like many other's, have witnessed first hand at what these centrefire rounds do to a fox. Most of mine are shot at around 100-120 yards, some closer. The 22-250 makes a mess, for sure, but then so does the .243. At the end of the day, as long as it's a clean, humane kill, that's what matters most. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Not in Gloucestershire olde mate, we have been here before with various calibres and what you can shoot with them, it varys from force to force. But Thames Valley won't license a 243 for vermin control either, but they did for me because I explained what I wanted to do and why 243 was the calibre for me. Explain that 243 is the correct calibre for fox; with the ranges mentioned earlier, 250-300 on a regular basis, it is the right choice - so say so! Justification is you want to be humane - 243 has less windage than a 22-250 and when it gets there it still has an almighty whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Right all, Its probably been done to death and i've done all the searches and hav'nt really found a solution to the problem. I will give you the story, basically I put in for a 243 for a fox and deer rifle, done my DSC1 ect, FEO came round, no problem. After he has spoken to the Chief constable he has said no, because I have no proper deer stalking ground. There is deer on the ground, but the farmer likes to see them. He is a very generous bloke, pays for all my ammo, lets me use his quad, invites me on his pheasant shoots ect, and I want to abide by what the farmer says. What my FEO says is fair enough, he said he will let me have a deer rifle no probs, ie 243,270,308 ect when I get some stalking ground. He said I can have any .22CF I want, and to be honest my FEO says go for a 223, but ive heard a lot about the 22-250. Ive not shot either, shot a .22 hornet plenty of times but I want something bigger, but im naturally drawn to the 22-250 for the flat trajectory and general good things you hear. What I would like to know about is what would you choose out of the two and why, or what have you got? I was looking at 204 Ruger. But thinking of something a lot more manly as it will be slotting a lot of charlie out to 250-300 yards max!!! I will not shoot anything more than that. Im confident, but whats the point??? Everntually I will start homeloading, and the deer rifle I will probaby get is 308, as ive used a mates for 7 years now and its a nice round. Can the wonderful knowledge of PW please help me. Thank you. 200 yds and the Hornet is capable, 300 yds and its .223 rem. There is absoloutly no balistic reason for 22-250 for 300 yds over the 22-250 that can justify taking the shot with one and not the other. The 22-250 will be noisier, burn more powder and give a shorter barrel life. Like cars some have to compensate for inadequencies in other departments .20 ruger is balistically speaking the better of the three but yet again you need to get out further than 300 to tell the difference and the downside will be less availability of guns and ammo off the shelf of the dealers. I have yet to put one into action on foxes though and the .243" with the right bullet beats them all because were it comes to extended range shooting windages are way more important than trajectory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat g Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 I was in a similar situation as yourself recently. I found myself requiring a rifle to tackle fox on my permission,which also has Roe deer but i also wanted the option to to purchase guided stalks as and when i could. So i explained this to my licensing authority and they said yes to .243. I was told that 243 was "fine for fox". I might add that i have always found my licensing authority (Northumbria) to be helpful, informative,approachable and efficient. (credit where credits due). Also my permission was already cleared up to and including 243 as well. So i now have a calibre to cover my needs, tackling charlies, controlling the deer on my permission as and when the land owner requires me to do that and my own rifle rather than a borrowed estate rifle that i can use on that occasional special day, that is a guided stalk. So think of it this way, at some stage you may want the option to control deer on your permission or you may just want to purchase a days stalking. If you initially go for the 22/250 that rules you out of the option of deer control or guided stalking in England( unless of course you want to limit your stalking to Scotland in which case the 22/250 would do the job for Roe only) Therefore i think you have a genuine legitimate reason for authority to acquire a 243. At some stage you are going to have to purchase another rifle when you could purchase only one rifle now that would cover your needs. I can never understand why one licensing authority have different rules to others, almost making up their own guidelines as they go along. I would speak to BASC or one of the other organisations for advice on this matter if i were you before you spend any of you hard earned cash. Just my opinion though ATB, Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 IMO most Firearms Depts. arorund the country I don't think will allow you to start above a .22CF just for Fox.As I've said before all the .22CFs will do a good job on Fox but it's up to the individual which calibre he chooses.My preference is the .22-250-it's a fanastic Fox cartridge!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 IMO most Firearms Depts. arorund the country I don't think will allow you to start above a .22CF just for Fox.As I've said before all the .22CFs will do a good job on Fox but it's up to the individual which calibre he chooses.My preference is the .22-250-it's a fanastic Fox cartridge!! Actually giudence notes state that for exposed locations were the range is likely to be longer or to cope with wind .243" is fine. thing is if you dont meet this need with your use better not to ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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