coyotemaster Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Not knowing how the laws work regarding acquisition I am a little lost in that area but I feel Kent has made some strong points if the range is ever anticipated to be long. I have seen coyotes killed out to 500yds with the .243 w/87 vmax and it hits with authority. I would think you could kill a fox about as far as you would ever need to with this round and with a BC of .400 it would buck wind real well. With the 243 there is a wider range of bullets/heads available as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyb Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Why would a 55grn 22 centre-fire round fired from something like a 22-250 - be any less of a "risk" than one of the same weight in 6mm? (243) I would also show you have a need for paid stalking, or like someone said above - get the farmer on side to do you a cover note. Thankfully Hertfordshire FL are much more sensible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Sadly many forces appear not to put any actual thought into their rules. I think that it makes absolutely no difference what calibre is used from a safety point of view, it's all down to where the rifle is pointed. Any calibre will leave any piece of land if pointed in the wrong direction, and any calibre can kill or injure a person if used incorrectly. I think a lot of the time the actual size of the bullet seems to be a major factor in deciding the 'danger' of that round, without them looking at any figures for that round. When I got a .243 I was told it would not be issued for foxes, as it was considered too much. I don't think arguing over distance would have had any effect. I don't know what slightly smaller calibres would have been considered accepted, I was just told .22 was considered OK. But that's North Yorkshire for you. If you prove you can shoot deer somewhere, it should make it very simple for you, or go for a 'smaller' calibre and end up buying a larger one for deer, which seems a more expensive solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Sadly many forces appear not to put any actual thought into their rules. I think that it makes absolutely no difference what calibre is used from a safety point of view, it's all down to where the rifle is pointed. Any calibre will leave any piece of land if pointed in the wrong direction, and any calibre can kill or injure a person if used incorrectly. I think a lot of the time the actual size of the bullet seems to be a major factor in deciding the 'danger' of that round, without them looking at any figures for that round. When I got a .243 I was told it would not be issued for foxes, as it was considered too much. I don't think arguing over distance would have had any effect. I don't know what slightly smaller calibres would have been considered accepted, I was just told .22 was considered OK. But that's North Yorkshire for you. If you prove you can shoot deer somewhere, it should make it very simple for you, or go for a 'smaller' calibre and end up buying a larger one for deer, which seems a more expensive solution. Cost is not a consideration in firearms legislation. Owning one rather than two guns is as is an individuals prefference for a more suitable gun for open ground long range and wind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Not in Gloucestershire olde mate, we have been here before with various calibres and what you can shoot with them, it varys from force to force. The .243 lists as a suitable Fox Calibre in the Home Office Guide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 If you get on with your farmer just ask him to write you a letter to say you can shoot deer. Get the .243. Job jobbed As above, if you get on with the farmer as you do, he sounds OK, he should be happy to give you a suitable letter as he knows that you won't actually be his shooting deer. I got my .243 not long ago, and with North Yorkshire they wouldn't allow me it for foxes either. I had to put deerstalking and fox on the application on the advice of my FEO (not a problem for me as I have land with deer), otherwise I'd only have been allowed a .22 CF. The only thing that might be an issue is if you put in for a .308 in the future as you said you might, I would guess that you wouldn't be allowed to keep the .243 just for foxes. But I'm just guessing on that. had my 243 just for foxing then got deer on it later!! I would pick one of the options from above,if 243 is what you need, I use Tikka 243 for fox and occasional deer, its a great round and I wouldnt want anything else Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Right all, Its probably been done to death and i've done all the searches and hav'nt really found a solution to the problem. I will give you the story, basically I put in for a 243 for a fox and deer rifle, done my DSC1 ect, FEO came round, no problem. After he has spoken to the Chief constable he has said no, because I have no proper deer stalking ground. There is deer on the ground, but the farmer likes to see them. He is a very generous bloke, pays for all my ammo, lets me use his quad, invites me on his pheasant shoots ect, and I want to abide by what the farmer says. What my FEO says is fair enough, he said he will let me have a deer rifle no probs, ie 243,270,308 ect when I get some stalking ground. He said I can have any .22CF I want, and to be honest my FEO says go for a 223, but ive heard a lot about the 22-250. Ive not shot either, shot a .22 hornet plenty of times but I want something bigger, but im naturally drawn to the 22-250 for the flat trajectory and general good things you hear. What I would like to know about is what would you choose out of the two and why, or what have you got? I was looking at 204 Ruger. But thinking of something a lot more manly as it will be slotting a lot of charlie out to 250-300 yards max!!! I will not shoot anything more than that. Im confident, but whats the point??? Everntually I will start homeloading, and the deer rifle I will probaby get is 308, as ive used a mates for 7 years now and its a nice round. Can the wonderful knowledge of PW please help me. Thank you. after reading this thread and a few of it comments,there is a very very easy solution,just tell the farmer the propblem your having and get him to give you written permission for deer even thopugh you have an agreement your not going to shoot any BUT put it too him you need the 243 just incase of a raod casualty or a deer that has been wounded by poacher and you need a legal caliber to dispatch it,you obvious have a very good relationship with the farmer so i wouldnt think it would be a problem the 243 is probably the best all round vermin caliber out there you can run a 58 to a 100 gr pill so very versitile best of luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 (edited) as I have posted before, I applied for HMR .17 for fox, was phoned up by my FLD told cant have HMR for fox, we will grant you .243 to which I replied thankyou very much indeed then did my dsc and got deer added so all in all they probably made the correct choice for me KW Edited December 20, 2011 by kdubya Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 To the OP, on the Fox calibre issue alone. I would push for a .243, this will also give you the option of all deer in the future. Most of my Fox are shot under 100 yards, then a few between 100-200yards, it is rare I have to shoot them over 200 yards. All sites and situations are different but on that basis, and assuming you Cannot get a .243, then any .22CF will do, but probably a .222, .223 or a 22-250. My money would go on a .223! I run a .223, .243 and a .308, and the .223 has taken the most foxes! (but I still shoot more foxes with my rimfires than I do with my centrefires) But everyone will have their own view and experiences! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 A lot of people on here are mentioning " Deer". 12borejimbo wants an out and out Fox Calibre!I understand if he does want to do Deer Shooting later on yes he would need more than a .22CF,but this Thread is all about a Fox Calibre! Get a .22-250 mate-that's my recommendation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I think I too would stick with the .243 if that's what you want. Fair enough of they turned you down for something silly but what you are asking for is perfectly reasonable. I'd push them harder - I have in the past and you'll find that often they say no until you've put forward a sensible case. Mine say no all the time and look at my signature! The only thing I ever failed on was a .375H&H! In your position I would sit down with the farmer and have a chat with him. Let him know your situation in more detail and I'm sure he wouldn't mind telling the police that it would be handy for you to have a .243 in case perhaps the Deer numbers grow too much and there are one or two that need to be culled. A letter for a booked stalk would also be good. What's £100 if you can get the rifle you want because of it? Using the sick Deer arguement isn't the best - if the animal is sufferring you can shoot it with a .22-250 if you feel it's in it's best interests to be put down quickly. Best to keep it as if numbers get too high then you would need the legal minimum of .240 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Right all, Its probably been done to death and i've done all the searches and hav'nt really found a solution to the problem. I will give you the story, basically I put in for a 243 for a fox and deer rifle, done my DSC1 ect, FEO came round, no problem. After he has spoken to the Chief constable he has said no, because I have no proper deer stalking ground. A lot of people on here are mentioning " Deer". 12borejimbo wants an out and out Fox Calibre!I understand if he does want to do Deer Shooting later on yes he would need more than a .22CF,but this Thread is all about a Fox Calibre! Umm..... :unsure: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luckyshot Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Another vote for the 243. My shooting buddy had a 243 conditioned just for fox under Durham whom usually only give out 22cf for fox. I’ve got my 243 conditioned for Deer, fox, ground game, vermin and humane dispatch. These conditions weren’t just given with a simple "I need" I had to go meet the firearms licensing manager have a sit down with her and explain why I needed 1 rifle to do everything. If you put your case across well you usually get what you need. If you are not prepared to fight for it personally in my opinion you don’t need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) A lot of people on here are mentioning " Deer". 12borejimbo wants an out and out Fox Calibre!I understand if he does want to do Deer Shooting later on yes he would need more than a .22CF,but this Thread is all about a Fox Calibre! Get a .22-250 mate-that's my recommendation! why isnt a 243 "an out an out" fox caliber I have news for you mate,its is and was designed for long range varmints,do you home work you are only recomending a 22.250 as "you use one" a bit more news for you mate the 243 leaves a 250 for dead on performance and accuracy http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html Edited December 21, 2011 by Ackley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 why isnt a 243 "an out an out" fox caliber I have news for you mate,its is and was designed for long range varmints,do you home work you are only recomending a 22.250 as "you use one" a bit more news for you mate the 243 leaves a 250 for dead on performance and accuracy http://www.6mmbr.com/243Win.html I recommended this calibre because I,friends of mine,and thousands of others use the .22-250 for Fox Control,and I'm certainly happy with it!12borejimbo is asking advice,my advice is for him is to get a .22-250-take it or leave it!I was refused a .243 as my first CF and maybe the OP has the same problem!? A .22CF is more than capable of doing the job well on Fox! As an allrounder I've no doubt that a .243 is the calibre to get but for a out and out Fox calibre I recommend a .22-250! Any problem with that!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I have shot a few fox's over the years with my 22-250,and just for that matter several with my 257. Yes the 22-250 is loud, yes it burns a lot of powder and yes it wears barrels quicker but boy o boy is it effective, every fox i have shot with this calibre has dropped on the spot. Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I recommended this calibre because I,friends of mine,and thousands of others use the .22-250 for Fox Control,and I'm certainly happy with it!12borejimbo is asking advice,my advice is for him is to get a .22-250-take it or leave it!I was refused a .243 as my first CF and maybe the OP has the same problem!? A .22CF is more than capable of doing the job well on Fox! As an allrounder I've no doubt that a .243 is the calibre to get but for a out and out Fox calibre I recommend a .22-250! Any problem with that!!!! ou didnt say anything of the sort,you said the OP wanted an out and out foxing caliber,and i ask again since when hasnt a 243 been one of those ?? i wonder if your recomendation would have been the same IF you would have been granted a 243 but as you say you got turned down there is thousands of people using all manner of calibers of shooting foxes ALL will do the job to certain degree all of which can be classed as "an out and out foxing caliber" just because you got turned down for something you "really wanted" dosent means others have to lay down and accept what the FEO says,there is alwasy way around everything to get what you really want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 ou didnt say anything of the sort,you said the OP wanted an out and out foxing caliber,and i ask again since when hasnt a 243 been one of those ?? i wonder if your recomendation would have been the same IF you would have been granted a 243 but as you say you got turned down there is thousands of people using all manner of calibers of shooting foxes ALL will do the job to certain degree all of which can be classed as "an out and out foxing caliber" just because you got turned down for something you "really wanted" dosent means others have to lay down and accept what the FEO says,there is alwasy way around everything to get what you really want What you gonna do twist your FEO's arm and tell him you want something he's NOT prepared to give you-YEAH RIGHT!! We all have opinions and I given mine. Would I swap my .22-250 for a .243 now for Fox Control-Never!That's my opinion!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 What you gonna do twist your FEO's arm and tell him you want something he's NOT prepared to give you-YEAH RIGHT!! We all have opinions and I given mine. Would I swap my .22-250 for a .243 now for Fox Control-Never!That's my opinion!!! there is no need to "twist" anyones arm,all you need to do is have "good reason" to own a said caliber in this case a 243,if the OP can proove is has lawfull authority to shoot deer he has the god given right to own a 243,now his FEO may stipulate he has to complete level 1 before hes allowed one,but thats no hardship. now if you would have known how to obtain a 243 would you have had a 22.250 "NO" you wouldnt and as for "Would I swap my .22-250 for a .243 now for Fox Control-Never!" thats because you cant have one and have never used one its quite simple if you know how Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devon Fox Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) What you gonna do twist your FEO's arm and tell him you want something he's NOT prepared to give you-YEAH RIGHT!! We all have opinions and I given mine. Would I swap my .22-250 for a .243 now for Fox Control-Never!That's my opinion!!! Im going to make you shoot my 243 when You come down & You WILL love it Edited December 21, 2011 by Devon Fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 Im going to make you shoot my 243 when You come down & You WILL love it probably not big enough to shoulder one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) there is no need to "twist" anyones arm,all you need to do is have "good reason" to own a said caliber in this case a 243,if the OP can proove is has lawfull authority to shoot deer he has the god given right to own a 243,now his FEO may stipulate he has to complete level 1 before hes allowed one,but thats no hardship. now if you would have known how to obtain a 243 would you have had a 22.250 "NO" you wouldnt and as for "Would I swap my .22-250 for a .243 now for Fox Control-Never!" thats because you cant have one and have never used one its quite simple if you know how I've shot my mate's .243!Don't want a .243 as I told you!Am more than happy with my rifle-haven't had any Foxes complain yet!! Edited December 21, 2011 by bullet boy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elmerfudd Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I've shot my mate's .243!Don't want a .243 as I told you!Am more than happy with my rifle-haven't had any Foxes complain yet!! .22 Hornet 35gr Fox no complaint .243 57gr bt / 70gr bt Fox no complaint .308 whatever Fox no complaint Also no complaint from 22/250 & 223 but for longer range/stopping power & flexibility .243 gets my vote.Oh and all cleared for reynard the fox...Job done imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullet boy Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 probably not big enough to shoulder one Don't be silly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted December 21, 2011 Report Share Posted December 21, 2011 I've shot my mate's .243!Don't want a .243 as I told you!Am more than happy with my rifle-haven't had any Foxes complain yet!! now now,we all know why you aint got a 243 "you wasnt allowed one" you have openly admitted that,not that you dont want one,if you were only allowed a 222 Iam sure that would be the best thing since sliced bread aswell,look dont be ashamed you had to settle for a 22.250 which is a great caliber I shot one for years BUT the 243 is better,shame you will never get to find out maybe if you would have taken advice like the OP hopefully has yopu too could be up with the big boys calibers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.