the last engineer Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 wondering if any of you guys can fill in the blanks, we all know hawks, falcons,eagles,kestrels, peregrins, osprey are all raptors living off kills made from sky born attacks, owls as well, buzzards being the exception and taking dead meat for lunch, now on my many travels around this beautiful country i see many " bird's of prey" in action, the one thing i cant fathom is why do raven's and crows attack them, the Red-tailed hawk is probably the most abundant of them, only this weekend i found myself again bewildered as to how a bird with powerful talons aand beak chikens out of a dog-fight with two big black raven whilst its mate flew overhead another 300' or so above, having been a big fan of raptors i hate seeing the not so tough aproach of this winged beauty, i end up screaming at it to tear the living snot out of the crow/raven's, why is this so, even around my home in Sherwood Park there are many nesting Peragrin falcons, more than i ever saw back home, still getting beaten up often, i dont get it, someone please explain to me why, i can honestly say i've only ever seen one Red-tailed hawk retaliate, it span upside down as the raven decended locking talons and plumeting to the ground only 50' away with the raven trapped under it, after grounding it stood for a while then tore the bird up, every trip i make around this province proceeds to open my eyes more to the wildlife here, i travel with 2/3 pairs of bino's in the truck just in-case you never know what your going to see next, what a beautiful country i dwell in . thanks for any answer's Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulos Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 its one that confuzzles me at times too, the most peculiar ive seen is a heron being followed by two angry magpies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 When the testosterone is up you`ll do anything for a .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kip270 Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Having flown Hawks for many years, i was always amazed when my hawk would sit it a tree, and a magpie would come over and start to harass him, i was wishing for him to take out the magpie but he never did, nor crows, but if a rabbit bolted he was off like a shot. The only thing i can think of is crows/ravens etc have an uncany knack of just appearing in numbers when needed, so i think that if a wild raptor attempted to take one, more would show up and mob the Hawk. They do the same with foxes,owls, basically any preadator they will harass it, and try to move it out of their territory. However, a few friends trained their hawks (Goshawk/Sparrowhawk) to take crows and magpie's, and when being flown, these hawks were never harrassed by any crow/magpie, maybe a sixth sense they have knowing they are on the menu. Sorry i don't have a more scientific answer, but only what i have seen over the years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 My belief is that the smaller hawks never retaliate against the larger birds, for fear of getting an injury. If they are injured, they can't hunt, they die. When the males "fight" each other, its lots of show without any actual contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackthorn Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 i have seen buzzards flip over when the crows nip in, the crows just seem to be a little out of reach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quist Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Sometimes the other birds get rid of the raptors by "Outing" them. They make so much noise and fuss that the predator knows that there's no chance of sneaking up on a meal and just go elsewhere. I've seen the mobbing but they stay out of reach of beaks and claws dont they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fisherman Mike Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 I think Cranfield has hit the nail on the head. A raptors talons and eyes are the tools of its trade and the bigger members of the crow family can certainly take care of themselves Ok. A fully grown rook for example has one of the most powerful beaks in the bird world, able to bury into rock hard ground in search of leather jackets etc and the talons of a crow are needle sharp.... just check them out next time you shoot one. All of the corvidaes know that a Bird of prey, owls and herons to some extent are by nature carnivores and a threat to their offspring Ive even seen a heron set down in a rookery and pick off a new hatched rook. Generally a B O P will avoid contact with any bird bigger than itsself for fear of risking serious injury and being unable to hunt, though I did see a juvenile peregrine on the Pembrokeshire coast once try to take a crow out and was amazed at the aerial attributes of the crow. FM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teal Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Crows and ravens will compete with buzzards for the same nest sites. This is what I have seen, I'd imagine other large birds of prey would be in competition as well. This certainly would explain some of seasonal aggression between these two species. They all like to use existing nests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the last engineer Posted June 5, 2006 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 My belief is that the smaller hawks never retaliate against the larger birds, for fear of getting an injury.If they are injured, they can't hunt, they die. When the males "fight" each other, its lots of show without any actual contact. i can relate to the smaller b o p being a little skittish with the larger corvids , but have you seen the size of a Red tailed hawk its twice the size, like i said ive seen one instance only where the hawk had enough and dealt with it accordingly, but cant fathom the rest, as kip said maybe its the fact there are usualy more crow/raven than raptor therefore bullied out, just seems strange to me that the "master's of the skies" may not be after all . Martin p.s. i still liked watching the kicking the crow got from the red-tailed hawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiercel Posted June 5, 2006 Report Share Posted June 5, 2006 Corvids and Raptors can live in harmony. I know of 2 sites where a Raven and a Peregrine both raise young each year on the same cliff face. The secret of this unlikely cohabitation is the timing of the broods. Along with the Heron the Raven is the first bird to lay its eggs each year. Usually the last week in February. As a peregrine does not lay till April, the Raven has a good 6 weeks start. So when the peregrines eggs hatch and the parents are actively looking for food the young Ravens have fledged and left the nest. Consequently the Ravens have nothing to fear from the Peregrines. FM and Cranfeild are right in what they say, that a raptor will not take the chance of getting hurt just for the sake of it. In the raptors world, discretion is the better part of valour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coupe312 Posted June 6, 2006 Report Share Posted June 6, 2006 a bit out of my legue to but is it not falcons are classed as raptors, hence have tallons hawkes are slightly diffrent and have claws not tallons? corvids always keep away form hawkes cause they don't seam to give and attack the maggies and crows. a mate of mine has a goshawke and that goes loopy at crow and does not give how many they are whist his gyro/peragrin ( hope it spelt right) will keep well out of the way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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