Harnser Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) The biggest mistake you good people north of the border could make . United we stand divided we fall . Harnser . Edited January 11, 2012 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I just love the bit... Yes... we want independence, we want to make our own decisions, earn and spend our own money and not have to bow down to Westminster and England! By the way..... Would it be ok if we borrowed your armed forces from time to time... thing is, we won't be able to afford our own?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I think Salmond is on an ego trip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Doe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Perhaps if we take back some of our revenues, a small but efficient army wouldn't be a problem, like many another small independent country? Yup, pro independence here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Perhaps if we take back some of our revenues, a small but efficient army wouldn't be a problem, like many another small independent country? Yup, pro independence here. I,m with you on that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvbus Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I just love the bit... Yes... we want independence, we want to make our own decisions, earn and spend our own money and not have to bow down to Westminster and England! By the way..... Would it be ok if we borrowed your armed forces from time to time... thing is, we won't be able to afford our own?! Or, 'Cameron, stay out of matters that relate to North of the Border as it has nothing to do with you, but we will feel free to vote in Westminster on issues specific to England' Hypocrites!! Edited January 11, 2012 by luvbus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvbus Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 The biggest mistake you good people north of the border could make . United we stand divided we fall . Harnser . Could't agree more, for all the bickering & mickey taking, more Scots and English have died standing shoulder to shoulder than ever died fighting each other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2bangs Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It won't make much difference ... most of them live down here anyway. Rebuild Hadrians wall and let them get on with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb403 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 If they do get their independence, how much of the national debt will they take with them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Doe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Or, 'Cameron, stay out of matters that relate to North of the Border as it has nothing to do with you, but we will feel free to vote in Westminster on issues specific to England' Hypocrites!! At present, Scotland only has devolution. This gives us powers to control education and health services but little else. Things such as benefits, tax matters etc are STILL controlled by Westminster. Should we gain independence, then of course there'd be no MP's from Scotland to vote on matters English. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 It'll be interesting if nothing else What worries me is... Looking at the debacles which are the Edinburgh trams and Scottish government building... VASTLY over-budget, and full of costly changes and badly mis-managed... Are there enough competent people in Scotland to make independance a success? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb403 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 At present, Scotland only has devolution. This gives us powers to control education and health services but little else. Things such as benefits, tax matters etc are STILL controlled by Westminster. Should we gain independence, then of course there'd be no MP's from Scotland to vote on matters English. Aye but the scottish MPs still have their say on the educational affirs in England though don't they - the vote on the first increase in tuition fees springs to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Perhaps if we take back some of our revenues, a small but efficient army wouldn't be a problem, like many another small independent country? Yup, pro independence here. I don't know the fine detail and don't profess to be an expert at all but my gut feeling is that a split will be very bad for all concerned. Scotland needs England as much as England needs Scotland, the same goes for Wales and NI. I also think the reclaimed revenues will be largely offset by the reduction or lack of money sent the other way... I get the feeling it's marginal. Also, I get the impression that the bulk of Scotland's revenues come from North Sea oil and gas.. What happens when they run out.. It is documented that the oil fields in the north sea have already passed peak and no new major fields are being discovered, i recon there is 20 years profit left in them. Gas supplies are still reasonably abundant but they too will peter out at some point, maybe 60-70 years... what happens then? Scotland will have lost it's main income stream and quite possibly be plunged into poverty! Then there are the security issues. A small army may not be enough to fend off some despot with big ideas but anyone setting thier sights on Scotland would automatically bring about the wrath of the remaining parts of the union... We would have to react as it would be a too big a threat to our security to just ignore... so we get dragged in whether we like it or not... The ramifications are huge and I really think it is all being driven by hearts, not heads... someone's been watching too much Braveheart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Doe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 If they do get their independence, how much of the national debt will they take with them? Fully our own share, wonder how the English government will manage to pay her way without Scottish revenues. It's an absolute lie that England oversubsidises Scotland. The Big Lie The above link proves this and is a few years old but still relevant. To be honest, with all the anti Scots feeling being displayed and all the bemoaning about how useless Scotland is, and what a drain she is on England, you'd think you'd be glad to see the back of us instead of complaining about what we are trying to do...govern ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I,m with you on that one. I really hope you get it quite frankly i am sick of hearing about it, lets see if you can afford all the freebies currently enjoyed and subbed by UK PLC, with a population of around 5.5 million sectarian hatred is rife ethnic diversity is less than 1% you have a massive drugs and alcahol problem and short life expectation, huge migration away from the country of able young people and nothing to offer outside Oil which is a depleting resource. You have no chance of defending yourselves on any scale (despite a very proud, heroic and universally celebrated fighting force) And lets face it folk wanting a bit of sunshine on holiday are hardly likely to pick up a copy of come to Scotland its still raining 2012 are they Edited January 11, 2012 by pavman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Doe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Also, I get the impression that the bulk of Scotland's revenues come from North Sea oil and gas.. What happens when they run out.. It is documented that the oil fields in the north sea have already passed peak and no new major fields are being discovered, i recon there is 20 years profit left in them. Gas supplies are still reasonably abundant but they too will peter out at some point, maybe 60-70 years... what happens then? Scotland will have lost it's main income stream and quite possibly be plunged into poverty! There's so much more to the Scottish economy than oil and gas. Statistics show that this year alone, our economy outshone Englands and actually is on the road to recovery, no mean feat given the current economic global situation. And this, depsite oil revenues going straight to Westminster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 Disastrous idea driven by outdated anti-English sentiment carried on by the deplorable Alex Salmond. If they go it alone, alone they must be without any help from the rest of the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Also, I get the impression that the bulk of Scotland's revenues come from North Sea oil and gas.. What happens when they run out.. It is documented that the oil fields in the north sea have already passed peak and no new major fields are being discovered, i recon there is 20 years profit left in them. Gas supplies are still reasonably abundant but they too will peter out at some point, maybe 60-70 years... what happens then? Scotland will have lost it's main income stream and quite possibly be plunged into poverty! There's so much more to the Scottish economy than oil and gas. Statistics show that this year alone, our economy outshone Englands and actually is on the road to recovery, no mean feat given the current economic global situation. And this, depsite oil revenues going straight to Westminster. I agree... there is so much more to Scotland's economy than fossil fuels... but it would be very interesting to see if the books balanced if the income from fossil fuels was taken out of the equasion.... which, at some time in the near future they surely will be... I very much doubt the economy could survive without it! Edited January 11, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Doe Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 There's no reason to assume that we would continue to look to England for aid should we go it alone, even if things take a downturn. We aren't, despite the image given by some members here, leeches on your coffers..your own government does enough of that for both countries. In any other nation, the scorn and derisment poured on Scotland and her people shown here would be called, simply, racism. Yet woe betide any Scot dare criticise an Englishman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 all of the uk will suffer if this happens....i hope it doesn't go through...there are extremist patriots for all sides, bunch of numpties in my opinion whether scottish, english, irish or welsh. and i'm in quite a good neutral position to talk. Regards, gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I agree... there is so much more to Scotland's economy than fossil fuels... but it would be very interesting to see if the books balanced if the income from fossil fuels was taken out of the equasion.... which, at some time in the near future they surely will be... I very much doubt the economy could survive without it! and who said it was going that fast? I can tell you now we have better access to fossil fuels now than we ever did, and we still have an awful lot of unexplored/non-surveyed areas around the UK....it's an urban myth that the tap is about to run dry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 I really hope you get it quite frankly i am sick of hearing about it, lets see if you can afford all the freebies currently enjoyed and subbed by UK PLC, with a population of around 5.5 million sectarian hatred is rife ethnic diversity is less than 1% you have a massive drugs and alcahol problem and short life expectation, huge migration away from the country of able young people and nothing to offer outside Oil which is a depleting resource. You have no chance of defending yourselves on any scale (despite a very proud, heroic and universally celebrated fighting force) And lets face it folk wanting a bit of sunshine on holiday are hardly likely to pick up a copy of come to Scotland its still raining 2012 are they OH, I Forgot, Is there no drug and alcohol problems down south? And i think scotland has a lot more than oil,what about the whisky industries,how much revenue do you think they turnover in a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 There's no reason to assume that we would continue to look to England for aid should we go it alone, even if things take a downturn. We aren't, despite the image given by some members here, leeches on your coffers..your own government does enough of that for both countries. In any other nation, the scorn and derisment poured on Scotland and her people shown here would be called, simply, racism. Yet woe betide any Scot dare criticise an Englishman. It's funny you should say that.... my family ancestry is from the borders... I am directly decendent from the Border Reivers on my mum's side! I have also lived very close to the Scottish border most of my life.. My experience would suggest that there is very little Scott resentment from the English, in fact... most English people I know think VERY highly of the scots but there is an awful lot of resentment and vehement anti English sentiment the other way round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) and who said it was going that fast? I can tell you now we have better access to fossil fuels now than we ever did, and we still have an awful lot of unexplored/non-surveyed areas around the UK....it's an urban myth that the tap is about to run dry... Hmmm.. the statistics would say otherwise... North Sea peaked 5 years ago... it's a slippery slope only one way from here... Gas will last a lot longer but will run out at some point.... that IS a foregone reality... if you think otherwise you have your head buried in the sand and you are condeming your grandchildren to a potential life of misery and poverty! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil Edited January 11, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavman Posted January 11, 2012 Report Share Posted January 11, 2012 OH, I Forgot, Is there no drug and alcohol problems down south? And i think scotland has a lot more than oil,what about the whisky industries,how much revenue do you think they turnover in a year by % of population you have a problem bigger than most but then again as you make such a dam fine tipple is it any wonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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