artschool Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 why?I support not you and no I wont let her work for some scumbag who wants her as slave labour for less than £2 an hour so but out ***** KW butt out? what's the issue. your daughter was working for money and now she gets the same money for not working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 why?I support her not you and no I wont let her work for some scumbag who wants her as slave labour for less than £2 an hour so but out ***** KW Just out of interest what hourly rate WOULD you let her work for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 (edited) Vince Green: From Page 3. Do you need any more window cleaners, I will want the £120 per day mind, and a 5 day week + overtime, yes please, when do I start? Edited January 24, 2012 by jacksdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 And I will hold the ladder for £90 a week!! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just out of interest what hourly rate WOULD you let her work for? min wage would be nice KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just out of interest what hourly rate WOULD you let her work for? I'll stab a guess at national minimum wage which is around £3.70 at 17. Even that seems unduly low, I was paid over £5 at 17 and that was nearly a decade ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 min wage would be nice KW I have people with degrees offering to work for minimum wage at the moment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marine1980 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I'll stab a guess at national minimum wage which is around £3.70 at 17. Even that seems unduly low, I was paid over £5 at 17 and that was nearly a decade ago. I'm still trying to work out exactly how many out goings she could possibly have at 17! Don't get me wrong a 30 year old person with morgage and bills etc then it would be out of order but at 17 there on the bottom run of the ladder but that's part if life! Royal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JR1960 Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Lets hope she hasn't spent 5 years getting a degree, or then she can work as an intern for the forseeable future for NOTHING to gain 'experience'(usually of filing and all the other **** they can't get anyone to do for minimum wage) just to get the hope of a decent job in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Just shows that a degree in knitting is worthless....work experience is worth much more! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdubya Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have people with degrees offering to work for minimum wage at the moment. degrees in what? another con trick IE convince average people they are clever by dumbing down the educational requirements and grades needed to get to uni, let them get worthless degrees (media studies anyone) and then let them fight it out for min wage jobs at macdoughnuts, KW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 degrees in what? another con trick IE convince average people they are clever by dumbing down the educational requirements and grades needed to get to uni, let them get worthless degrees (media studies anyone) and then let them fight it out for min wage jobs at macdoughnuts, KW architecture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacksdad Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 'bout the same as knitting then.............. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artschool Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 'bout the same as knitting then.............. :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 I reckon we could form our own pigeon watch hard right wing government cabinet! we'd get it all sorted Ok. Here's a policy for you. Instead of subsidizing child birth, tax it. Reduce the population, slash public spending and push genetic evolution out of reverse gear all at the same time. While we're at it put sterilizing agents into junk food. Its Darwinism, which works fine for other species. At present we live under the opposite, a system of socialised eugenicism whereby the strong and the able are disenfranchised to promote the feeble and the feckless in the spurious name of 'fairness',while the genuinely helpless are reduced to political footballs or ignored altogether, and the sole beneficiaries are the political elite who administer the system. No wonder we're bankrupt, over-populated and in chronic intellectual and moral decline. And another: a complete audit of all public spending, down to the last penny, conducted by the Public Audit Office to be published at the end of each Parliament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davva Posted January 24, 2012 Report Share Posted January 24, 2012 Everyone is forgetting that £26k benefits is "take home" pay - They are proposing £26k in benefits cap, which means a working person whom pays Income tax, NI & Pension contributions would ACTUALLY need to earn nearer £35k to get the same £ to spend as a "supported person" on the £26k cap........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr W Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 £2/hour - not a good wage I agree. But Experience, demonstrable work ethic, references - priceless when she is looking for the next better paid job. Thats why it is called a career ladder No offence but I honestly don't think you are doing her any favours. Got to agree with Diceman, surely you're just teaching her that she doesn't have to work for her money, £90 a week at 17 for doing nothing, jesus! I think I'd have said she could do better and help to find something else to do and give £20-£30 to live on while she's looking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) The minimum wage is one of the problems that has created amongst other things an uncompetitive marketplace in a number of areas. What I mean by this is that the market rate should be paid rather than a false minimum wage. Think of it as an EU subsidy because that is exactly what we are doing with the minimum wage it puts the price of most things up by artificially increasing labour costs. I know it sounds a little bit right wing but it's the truth. I understand why the minimum wage was brought in and what it has helped, but overall I think it's a bad thing I left school at 16 to work on a farm shovelling muck and the desire to better myself has driven me ever since. I firmly believe that the welfare state combined with the minimum wage has made us a less competitive and softer nation. I agree there are areas of the country that have little or no employment however there are many that have jobs people are willing to work for what they see as a low-wage. I do not see a problem with people working for benefits. I would propose that it's part time, allowing them to look for work, it keeps them positive and they may find an alternative career. Edited January 25, 2012 by keg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 The minimum wage is one of the problems that has created amongst other things an uncompetitive marketplace in a number of areas. What I mean by this is that the market rate should be paid rather than a false minimum wage. Think of it as an EU subsidy because that is exactly what we are doing with the minimum wage it puts the price of most things up by artificially increasing labour costs. I know it sounds a little bit right wing but it's the truth. I understand why the minimum wage was brought in and what it has helped, but overall I think it's a bad thing I left school at 16 to work on a farm shovelling muck and the desire to better myself has driven me ever since. I firmly believe that the welfare state combined with the minimum wage has made us a less competitive and softer nation. I agree there are areas of the country that have little or no employment however there are many that have jobs people are willing to work for what they see as a low-wage Generally speaking the 'market' wage was above minimum wage when it was introduced. The problem with any modern economy is finding a way to improve worker productivity and part of me wonders whether labeling a particular wage 'minimum wage' damages output as people feel undervalued knowing that the employers are simply giving them the minimum they can as opposed to a good wage to entice them to work, a so called 'efficiency wage'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diceman Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) An apocryphal tale but an interesting theory... An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all). After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that. Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections. These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation Edited January 25, 2012 by Diceman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 An apocryphal tale but an interesting theory... An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all). After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that. Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections. These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation Of course, this is an entirely fictional account written to make a political point. It is also not really accurate, certainly not in the US. A more accurate thought experiment would involve a simple percentage being clipped from all but the lowest achievers, and some of this percentage being distributed to the lowest acheivers. The lowest acheivers should also, for the most part, having a compelling reason why they cannot attempt the exam. Provided that percentage being clipped off isn't too great, then the highest acheivers will still be that and the lot of those at the bottom will be acheived. Granted, there will be some who are capable, but ride out happy with an average grade, but the majority work to the best of their effort. I don't believe in high taxes, or extensive welfare, however I do not buy the argument that unless we leave these people to rot, we are destroying society as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unapalomablanca Posted January 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 Of course, this is an entirely fictional account written to make a political point. It is also not really accurate, certainly not in the US. A more accurate thought experiment would involve a simple percentage being clipped from all but the lowest achievers, and some of this percentage being distributed to the lowest acheivers. The lowest acheivers should also, for the most part, having a compelling reason why they cannot attempt the exam. Provided that percentage being clipped off isn't too great, then the highest acheivers will still be that and the lot of those at the bottom will be acheived. Granted, there will be some who are capable, but ride out happy with an average grade, but the majority work to the best of their effort. I don't believe in high taxes, or extensive welfare, however I do not buy the argument that unless we leave these people to rot, we are destroying society as a whole. But we have never tried leaving them to rot, quite the opposite, so how we will ever know unless we try.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 But we have never tried leaving them to rot, quite the opposite, so how we will ever know unless we try.? People were effectively left to rot until the turn of the 20th century, and a basic standard of living was only really acheived in the 50s. The reason a lot of welfare came about is that society as a whole was too unfit to work as a result of poverty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 An apocryphal tale but an interesting theory... An economics professor at a local college made a statement that he had never failed a single student before, but had recently failed an entire class. That class had insisted that Obama's socialism worked and that no one would be poor and no one would be rich, a great equalizer. The professor then said, "OK, we will have an experiment in this class on Obama's plan". All grades will be averaged and everyone will receive the same grade so no one will fail and no one will receive an A.... (substituting grades for dollars - something closer to home and more readily understood by all). After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little were happy. As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free ride too so they studied little.. The second test average was a D! No one was happy. When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F. As the tests proceeded, the scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone else. To their great surprise, ALL FAILED and the professor told them that socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away, no one will try or want to succeed. It could not be any simpler than that. Remember, there IS a test coming up. The 2012 elections. These are possibly the 5 best sentences you'll ever read and all applicable to this experiment: 1. You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. 2. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. 3. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. 4. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it! 5. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for, that is the beginning of the end of any nation A rather simplistic theory on a complex problem. Sounds Daily Mailesque. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laird Lugton Posted January 25, 2012 Report Share Posted January 25, 2012 I don't believe in high taxes, or extensive welfare, however I do not buy the argument that unless we leave these people to rot, we are destroying society as a whole. I agree wholeheartedly, however everybody should pay their fair share. Warren Buffet is campaigning that the rich should pay their fair share. The trickle down effect doesn't seem to be working. In the Times this morning Mitt Romney has a fortune of $250m yet he is charged a lower rate of tax than a postal worker. Fair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.