CrapShot Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 Gents, i recently read in one of the shooting magazines that not many people had ordered liberty load cartridges of which a donation is made to the campaign to save our sport. As i am one of those people i though i would ring up and place my order (although quite expensive). When i enquired about the 20b loads they only do 23 gram or a 25 gram loads which i though maybe a bit light for game\pigeon shooting so i did not place an order. Has anyone purchased any of these loads and if so did they do the job. Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 23 grms is a 20 bore load. If you want to use 16 bore loads, get a 16 bore. The nearer to a standard load you use. the more even the pattern, in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted July 21, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I thought 1oz was a standard shotgun load ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red_stag88 Posted July 21, 2003 Report Share Posted July 21, 2003 I have shot (and killed) Pheasants and pigeons with a 25g load (about 7/8oz) with ease. Its just my aim which makes em, keep on flying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I thought 1oz was a standard shotgun load ? Don't you know why a 12 bore is called a 12 bore, or a 20 bore a 20 bore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted July 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I do, but with regards to shot pattern and i thought the chokes decided that. I shoot 1oz loads through 28, 20 and 12 bore shot guns and have done for as long as i can remember but i do sometimes use 32gram through my 12bore is this also not a 12 bore load ? Would it be possible to send me a list of shotguns and the correct cartridges. Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjimmer Posted July 22, 2003 Report Share Posted July 22, 2003 I shoot 1oz loads through 28, 20 and 12 bore shot guns and have done for as long as i can remember but i do sometimes use 32gram through my 12bore is this also not a 12 bore load ? Have you ever found out what sort of patterns you are getting? I think you would find that the 12 bore throws a more even pattern with the same load as the others. With less kick! Who makes your 28grm 28 bore cartridges, and how much do they cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted July 23, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 i have checked the pattern pattern on my beretta but not on my sbs as i don't use it much any more, but the pattern my beretta throws is very tight indeed. My local gun shop is Simpsons in Shepshed (leicestershire) and the cartridges are made by Winchester but i have no idea how much they cost as i haven't had to buy any for a long time as i just use the gun for shooting bunny's at the end of summer. Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Does anyone know who sells these liberty cartridges?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkshire Pudding Posted July 23, 2003 Report Share Posted July 23, 2003 Neil I don't know who sells em ....but i can tell you they are £125 per 1000 all the best yis yp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted July 24, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2003 If you go to http://www.countryside-alliance.org/ all the details are there about the liberty loads. Although they are a bit expensive if you can afford it it would be a worth while purchase as these people are the ones protecting our sport. Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammergun Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 You could alway go to your gun shop, buy 1000 for £90 and donate £35 to the CA!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hammergun, that is a great idea. When I read this thread, I tried to remember very similar circumstances some time ago, when I bought something that was "overpriced", but the proceeds supported something to do with shooting. I found out afterwards that only about 10p in the £1 actually went to the "cause". Someone was making a lot of money out of the deal and it wasn,t the "cause". Once bitten twice shy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted July 25, 2003 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 cranfield, you are spot on with your comment but in last weeks shooting times there was a article about shooters not supporting the cause by not buying the liberty cartridges. The 12 bore loads are 30gram, fiber, 6's and the 20 bore are 25 gram, fiber, 6's but unlike hammergun i cannot get these loads for £90 per 1000 so i was willing to do my bit and make a donation. One thing that has amazed me over the past year is the ammount of shooters that are not a member of basc or the countryside aliance, don't buy game a licence and didn't march for liberty in london. Its not a dig at anyone but i think we all need to do our bit more so now than ever before and i think that is the piont that the Shooting Times was trying to make. Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cranfield Posted July 25, 2003 Report Share Posted July 25, 2003 I agree we should all do "our bit". I marched and I send donations. It makes sense to belong to the BASC or CA, if only for the insurance cover. I know quite a few people that didn,t attend the March, but I don,t think less of them because of it. Lots of shooters support the "cause", but can,t afford the time to attend marches, or the money to send donations. But, they do sign petitions, write to their MP,s etc. Its a fallacy to assume, that all hunters and shooters are rolling in money. Everyone does what they can. I can buy those cartridges for £90 per 1000 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodeer Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 I can assure you that these are good ,hard hitting cartridges and in my opinion are some of the best around. Yes they are £125 per 1000 but you save time and fuel if they are delivered to your house and they are a superb cartridge. My local where I go beating has birds no lower than 35yards and most exceed 45y and are easily bought down with these loads which he has had paper cased. At the end of each season he gives the left overs to the beaters on our 3 beaters days and a lot of the beaters where relucktant to use anything but there favourite but when they saw what they could do they couldnt fill there pockets fast enough! My shooting syndicate has ordered 7000 and will do each season. GO and BUY some or pinch some from a mate! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbus Polumbus Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Why not have a dig Crapshot? I was on every march and coerced, tricked and forced people and friends to go along also. I am a member of various shooting organisations and proud of what I have done. I write letters to my MPs etc but measuring the responses I have not had I don't think they can read. Everyone who is shooting or involved in country sports can make a contribution in some way and those that participate and freeload of the backs of us out there doing our bit, is unfair and morally unexscusable. There are genuine people out there who for whatever reason cannot attend or cannot afford the time or money to go and do there bit and I for one wholly support them as they are the ones who are in desperate need of our voice and support and I will not criticise them in anyway, but those of you who are too lazy or too selfish and can't be bothered............. well shame on you all. We are on the precipiss (is that how you spell it) of the big greasy slope of ruin for our sport and our way of life and I will fight to the bitter end to keep it, but IF we lose the fight then I can go to sleep with a clear conciousience (big words ) knowing I did my bit, the freeloaders can't and I hope they have many sleepless nights but I suppose they don't care enough anyway so they wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbus Polumbus Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 And only A PENNY goes to the cause for these cartridges if I read the article correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 Well said Columbus. At the risk of being boring and obsessive, there is currently a Lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest flightline Posted July 31, 2003 Report Share Posted July 31, 2003 -premature posting! Lord`s write in campaign. I`ve posted it twice now for no replies at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrapShot Posted August 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Columbus, i think it is a penny for every shot, so it is a £10 donation per 1000 which makes the cartridges £115 per 1000 including delivery which i think is not too much for a one off purchase. Dig deep gents ! Crapshot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbus Polumbus Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 I agree with you crapshot. I also agree with other comments from other PW repected posters that on the face of it, go and buy your cartridges for say £90 and donate an even larger amount to the cause. This does two things 1. you get your cartridges & 2. the cause gets a direct contribution of the difference, in this case it is potentially and extra twenty five quid. Now that would make a difference to the lobby coffers. I also think Cranfield has a very valid point with the amount of money going to the cause. I think they could donate a larger sum, it would be interesting how much money they do make from their manufacturing process etc.. I am a simple man and assume if I can buy cartridges for £90 / 1000 with the company logo on them and both the manufacturer and the retailer make money on them, then to take a a tenner off for the donation and another fiver for the delivery, to my mind and application of simple math, there is a deficit of £20 somewhere, where is that going? I may be wrong they may be better cartridges I don't know, I can only ask the questions I have that no one seems to be able or willing to answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highdowns hunter Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 I would guess that the cost of delivering 1000 cartridges would be quite expensive to anywhere in the UK. Maybe they average the cost over the GB as a whole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neil Posted August 1, 2003 Report Share Posted August 1, 2003 Does anyone know what these cartridges atcually are??i mean are they specially loaded for this reasion or are they just a standard cart with different writing on them,the reasion i ask is that my local gunsmiths sells pigeon specials with the shop name on them for the same price as normal pigeon specials Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbus Polumbus Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 From my perspective I would assume, like all manufacturing processes, you try and make the constituant parts as similar as you can to keep costs as low as possible, whilst making the product look as distinctive as you can to secure the premium costs you want to charge. So if we take a shotgun cartridge, for example, the size and tolerances are within certain parameters, that pretty much rules out the case, I accept the colours change but if your cleaver, you can change the colour and the bit in the middle is waste that you sell off cheaper. So what about the internal bits and bobs? Well you have powder that is developed over the years so it is a reasonable assumption that the powder will be "off the shelf". Likewise with the fibrewad or plastic cup and then we come to the shot, well again, shot is shot is it not. Therefore I do expect it will be pretty much a standard cartridge (to whoever makes it) with a different "badge" on it. I do accept, before the cartridge manufacturers get on my case, I have simplified the process somewhat but equally, I dont think I am too far from the mark. I also think we are in the same situation as Tesco's are with their own brands eg some of the big names actually produce for Tesco's own brand goods so to all sense and purposes whats in the packet is the same as the branded stuff further down the aisle. They don't have seperate production facilities. They just keep it quite. But I guess the higher costs will be attributable to the "high Development costs" incurred by the manufacturer that cannot be proven, unless you work for them. Neil if you want you can go to any manufacturer and have your own cartridges made up, you just have to have a lot made, hence your local gun shop has as a marketing strategy, try asking him what they are, he may tell you they are x or y brand with his own name on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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