.22 hornet, .222, 223?

[rabbit_stu]

I know discussions between calibres can never be answered with one or the other, as each are suited to a different job but i shall explain my individual situation:

 

I have had .22lr and .17hmr approved and waiting on my ticket to come through. I've put a deposit on a .22lr as i want to spend plenty of time and ammo punching paper first. The 17hmr is cleared for fox, and would do i guess, but i would really like to get into homeloading as a side hobby, to save money is great but not the most important thing to me, as i like the idea of developing loads and enjoying an additional side to the sport.

 

I'd like a longer range rifle, capable of taking foxes, but also the odd rabbit without destroying it's body too after a head shot.

 

I've read loads on here about the calibres, but wondered if there were a few answers to suit my situation.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Stuart

 

i'm also aware there not suitable for deer, but im not too worried as the future entails dsc1 and something bigger again.

 

Thanks

[Ackley]

I know discussions between calibres can never be answered with one or the other, as each are suited to a different job but i shall explain my individual situation:

 

I have had .22lr and .17hmr approved and waiting on my ticket to come through. I've put a deposit on a .22lr as i want to spend plenty of time and ammo punching paper first. The 17hmr is cleared for fox, and would do i guess, but i would really like to get into homeloading as a side hobby, to save money is great but not the most important thing to me, as i like the idea of developing loads and enjoying an additional side to the sport.

 

I'd like a longer range rifle, capable of taking foxes, but also the odd rabbit without destroying it's body too after a head shot.

 

I've read loads on here about the calibres, but wondered if there were a few answers to suit my situation.

 

Thanks in advance

 

Stuart

 

i'm also aware there not suitable for deer, but im not too worried as the future entails dsc1 and something bigger again.

 

Thanks

all the calibers you mention can be reloaded all will be great for foxes and rabbits (head shots if you want the meat) I would go for the 223 as it will do everying the other 2 can do plus you can push it out to serious distance if you wishthe 222 and 223 are suitable for roe deer in scotland munty and chinks in england

Edited February 21, 2012 by Ackley

[rabbit_stu]

Whats the cheapest of the three, in total to reload? or is there very little between them?

[kent]

The hornet is the better choice for Foxes and Rabbit with just one load IMO. Next choice is the .222 but you might need to consider two different loads. .223 is still capable but getting a little too big IMO but can still be effectively downloaded non the less.

Note: by downloaded i do not mean a half empty case, another powder must be used, half empty cases can prove dangerous.

 

The Hornet via the fact it uses half the powder will be the cheapest to re-load and if you only load for this calibre a press is not required with a little know how and the correct dies. It is also the quietest to shoot and esiest to moderate as a result of this smaller max. fill level. On foxes it maybee maxes out at 200 yds in the right hands were it still holds the same power levels the WMR does at its muzzle. The other larger cases will add maybee 80-100 yds to this under the same criteria of shooter

 

You wont need a HMR if you get a hornet though and thats the honest truth, i was forced to sell mine as licencing said i had too many vermin guns. Ok i was spitting mad about it at the time but now i know they did me a great favour as it put some extra wad in my pocket and saved me buying another scope to boot. Can i point out they didn't say "you must loose the HMR" they said " you must loose one other vermin gun" it was the locical choice being the closest in performance and one of my reasons for the hornet was it proved poor terminally on crows, i don't consider the HMR a fox gun and that then left Rabbits and Hares on whichtend to use the .22 lr.

 

I have yet to chest shoot a Rabbit with the Hornet and full power re-loads but i have neck shot a few hares and they have all been damaged no worse than the HMR did. As it holds massive ammounts better windages and drop over the Hummer and great accuraccy there is no point in aiming for the chest shots to be fair. My closest head shot was a squatter at maybee 20yds and it was just fine for the table

[rabbit_stu]

thank you both for your informative replies! top stuff. Will be looking into the hornet a bit more deeply i think. thanks guys

[wymberley]

The hornet is the better choice for Foxes and Rabbit with just one load IMO. Next choice is the .222 but you might need to consider two different loads. .223 is still capable but getting a little too big IMO but can still be effectively downloaded non the less.

Note: by downloaded i do not mean a half empty case, another powder must be used, half empty cases can prove dangerous.

 

The Hornet via the fact it uses half the powder will be the cheapest to re-load and if you only load for this calibre a press is not required with a little know how and the correct dies. It is also the quietest to shoot and esiest to moderate as a result of this smaller max. fill level. On foxes it maybee maxes out at 200 yds in the right hands were it still holds the same power levels the WMR does at its muzzle. The other larger cases will add maybee 80-100 yds to this under the same criteria of shooter

 

You wont need a HMR if you get a hornet though and thats the honest truth, i was forced to sell mine as licencing said i had too many vermin guns. Ok i was spitting mad about it at the time but now i know they did me a great favour as it put some extra wad in my pocket and saved me buying another scope to boot. Can i point out they didn't say "you must loose the HMR" they said " you must loose one other vermin gun" it was the locical choice being the closest in performance and one of my reasons for the hornet was it proved poor terminally on crows, i don't consider the HMR a fox gun and that then left Rabbits and Hares on whichtend to use the .22 lr.

 

I have yet to chest shoot a Rabbit with the Hornet and full power re-loads but i have neck shot a few hares and they have all been damaged no worse than the HMR did. As it holds massive ammounts better windages and drop over the Hummer and great accuraccy there is no point in aiming for the chest shots to be fair. My closest head shot was a squatter at maybee 20yds and it was just fine for the table

 

Yep, that just about wraps it up.

From what the OP has said he is not into long range cannons which probably cater for the odd couple of percent of the foxes shot, the other 90% plus being taken at sub 200 yards.

If you're serious, it may be possible to save a few bob (read what you said about necessary expenditure) by swapping the HMR before the FAC is issued. Being what it is, the Hornet may avoid the mentor problem - worth asking.

If it appeals, then a quick dash up the A38/M5(for a mile or two) and there's a choice of two that you're welcome to have a play with.

[al4x]

If you're going to get a centrefire go for a proper one

 

have a rimfire for bunny bashing then one with a lot more clout for foxes. Simply I'd go for the .223 because as a newcomer to rifles reloading isn't necessarily good to start at the same time. .223 has pretty reasonably priced factory rounds and a large supply or rifles both new and second hand, being a reasonable caliber they don't tend to burn barrels fast so you can buy second hand with few worries. Having a centrefire as a main bunny gun only makes sense if you don't shoot many.

[Davy Holt]

Hiya,

 

I'm doing pretty much what you want to do (and a bit more) with a .222, I only use one load to cover everything up to and including Roe.. makes things a lot easier to learn your drops. if you want to start dialing in you can easily push it out to 400 yards and further. It's cheap and easy to reload for if you want to go that way and you still can get good factory rounds for it if you so wish.

[kent]

If you're going to get a centrefire go for a proper one

 

have a rimfire for bunny bashing then one with a lot more clout for foxes. Simply I'd go for the .223 because as a newcomer to rifles reloading isn't necessarily good to start at the same time. .223 has pretty reasonably priced factory rounds and a large supply or rifles both new and second hand, being a reasonable caliber they don't tend to burn barrels fast so you can buy second hand with few worries. Having a centrefire as a main bunny gun only makes sense if you don't shoot many.

 

Did you not read what the op said? Also why the heck should someone new to rifles not get involved in reloading? the two skill set are quite different i even know people who reload but dont shoot

 

I should listen to what Wyberley has to say carefully and take advantage of the kind offer

[Thedeerman]

If you're going to get a centrefire go for a proper one

 

Utter garbage. Not everybody needs a 22-250 to shoot foxes.

 

I have a hornet, my mate has a 223. There arent many shots on our land that he can make I cant, and my hornet is cheaper to feed and quieter. Both are great rounds, but I would never say one was better than the other, just different.

[trapperdan]

.22 HORNET HAS ALWAYS APPEALED TO ME ALTHOUGH IVE USED 1, IVE NEVER OWNED 1.

BUT IF I WAS AFTER A .22 CENTRFIRE,I WOULD CHOOSE A .223 AND THEN USE REDUCED LOADS FOR RABBITS.WITH REDUCED LOADS YOU CAN EASILY REPLICATE WMR VELOCITIES.

[njc110381]

Buy a Hornet and dump the HMR if you want to reload. I did and I've never looked back. If you want to compare .223 and .22 Hornet I have both that you could try but I'm a bit far away. In fact between me and a mate we could show you HMR, Hornet, .222 and .223.

 

The Hornet is a funny round. It shoots about the same trajectory as the HMR and costs a similar amount to run when home loaded. It's certainly no big boomer but gives you a lot more down range energy than any of the rimfires can offer. I shot some Foxes with my HMR before it went and I wasn't impressed. It's just too light.

 

Al4x uses a lot of rounds. Perhaps if you feel that you will need more ammo than you are prepared to load then a HMR and a bigger gun could be an option but I can't think of any other reason.

 

Body shots on bunnies with a Hornet can vary vastly depending on bullet choice. The 45gr SP tend to drill through without making a massive mess but a 35gr V-Max will damn near cut the front end off with a mid body hit! With head shots it doesn't matter whether you're using a .22lr or a full on Deer round, you don't eat that bit!

[rabbit_stu]

Thanks for the offer, I'm hoping to take up Wyberley on his offer as he not too far from me. If I cant for whatever reason I will defo get back to you and travel the distance. Thanks

[njc110381]

We meet at South Wales once a month so if you do want to come up let us know - that'd knock half an hour or more off of your trip.

 

I think the easiest way to look at it is if you want a HMR then get say a .223 as well, but personally I think you'd be better off putting the money into one good setup (Hornet) and getting used to it.

[Gimlet]

I was in your position having got an HMR to extend rabbits ranges but found it too limiting on foxes. If you set out looking for foxes with an HMR, nine out of ten shots you'll have to turn down.

I went for .222 mainly because a peachy rifle turned up with my name on it. I started a similar thread a few months ago, when I was after an additional rifle for foxes and long range rabbits. The issue of either/or with the HMR put me off the Hornet though I would now seriously consider getting one to replace the HMR when I start reloading because I shoot a lot across valleys and cross winds are a pain. The PW Hornet fan-club has convinced me I could achieve HMR accuracy levels from a Hornet. It will be interesting to see whether the .17 Hornady Hornet has any advantages over the .22. I have a feeling wind drift will still be an issue

Very pleased with the triple. I run it on 40 gr BT factory Federals. It is supremely accurate with slightly less noise and recoil than a .223. Can't say the ammo is cheap though. I'm paying the same for the triple Feds as I am for Sako SPs for my .308. I know people say they can feed a .223 on factory ammo at 60p a bang but don't assume the rifle you buy will accept this cheap ammo. If you're starting off with factory ammo, best to play safe and budget for £1-£1.25 a go. Not sure what the homeloading costs will be because I haven't got started yet, but I'm guessing 30-50% cheaper with reused cases.

[activeviii]

I have a 22lr, 17 hmr and a 222, im about to drop the hmr as the 222 does the same and more. i can take the odd muntie with the triple and i can shoot rabbits with the same damage as the hmr, head shoot every thing and no problems.

 

reloading is as cheap as the hmr once you have the kit. 20p a click for hmr and 31p for 222.

Is it easy to reload for? i use to reload with a lee reloader. you make the rounds up with the help of a Hammer. clover leaf at 100mtrs with the right nut on the butt. this calibre must be one of the easiest and most forgiving there is for reloading. whether it is start loads or max loads, it makes no differance out to 100 meters. so reloading with start loads works on my budget.

 

The 222 tikka T3 with a Pez T12 is as quite as a hmr as well. not a cheap moderator but worth the money.

 

You are more than welcome to Join NJC, Me and the rest on the range in south wales. there is normally a few different makes and calibres around to have a look at.

 

All the best

 

Phil

[kent]

I have a 22lr, 17 hmr and a 222, im about to drop the hmr as the 222 does the same and more. i can take the odd muntie with the triple and i can shoot rabbits with the same damage as the hmr, head shoot every thing and no problems.

 

reloading is as cheap as the hmr once you have the kit. 20p a click for hmr and 31p for 222.

Is it easy to reload for? i use to reload with a lee reloader. you make the rounds up with the help of a Hammer. clover leaf at 100mtrs with the right nut on the butt. this calibre must be one of the easiest and most forgiving there is for reloading. whether it is start loads or max loads, it makes no differance out to 100 meters. so reloading with start loads works on my budget.

 

The 222 tikka T3 with a Pez T12 is as quite as a hmr as well. not a cheap moderator but worth the money.

 

You are more than welcome to Join NJC, Me and the rest on the range in south wales. there is normally a few different makes and calibres around to have a look at.

 

All the best

 

Phil

 

I have the PES scout on the Hornet, as quiet as it gets Consider the above the .223 burns twice the powder of the liitle Hornet so it is even cheaper and even easier to moderate

 

Someone mentioned any C/f and headshots on Rabbits here? Well it aint true with the .243" it turns thier guts out and breaks the back legs with the forces involved There are limits to the c/f rabbit thing

[njc110381]

What bullet Kent? I was shooting bunnies with 75gr Hornady HP (at £1.50 per bang but it was fun...) out of my .243 and it just took the bulk of the head clean off. No damage elsewhere unless they were facing me, at which point the blow out of fragments trashed the whole lot.

 

With a side on shot there wasn't even bruising of the shoulders? :look:

 

Edit... Perhaps using a bullet that doesn't expand too fast wastes a lot of the energy in the backstop? That would explain the 45gr Hornet bullets not making as much mess as the V-max. They drill through without putting too much energy into the quarry maybe...

Edited February 22, 2012 by njc110381

[kent]

What bullet Kent? I was shooting bunnies with 75gr Hornady HP (at £1.50 per bang but it was fun...) out of my .243 and it just took the bulk of the head clean off. No damage elsewhere unless they were facing me, at which point the blow out of fragments trashed the whole lot.

 

With a side on shot there wasn't even bruising of the shoulders? :look:

 

Edit... Perhaps using a bullet that doesn't expand too fast wastes a lot of the energy in the backstop? That would explain the 45gr Hornet bullets not making as much mess as the V-max. They drill through without putting too much energy into the quarry maybe...

 

Cant honestly remember it was an experiment with a mate some years ago with various i think, even tried skimming the heads