kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 That's tripe....like to see you carry 100-150 243 rounds around with you up a hill here when out shooting rabbits - the WMR is the perfect round for rabbit with the "occasional" fox, light, not as obnoxiously noisy as a c/f and cheap to feed, and yes, I have both, WMR can take a fox out to 80 yards and pick away at rabbits reletively cheaply in comparison to a c/f so it fits where the 22LR is out or clout, the 17hmr would be similarly out of energy in my opinion for a fox. A WMR has a different purpose entirely to 243/223 etc. Regards, Gixer sorry i think i badly worded that - as it needs to be in context to which it relates "if you have a .22 hornet" and a .243". The .243 is a terrible rabbit gun my experiance shows even head shots send bits of bunny all over and make mush of the internals. Carrying the rounds is the least of your issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Hornet ammo is so cheap to make it's daft. A tub of powder lasts for about 600 rounds or so, and using cheap 46gr HPs they're about 10p each. As for the time taken - loading 223 to shoot 1000 yards takes time (lots of time, my other half doesn't realise how lucky she is). Hornet is a doddle. H110 meters amazingly well so you can throw the charge very accurately. Unless you're shooting hundreds and hundreds of rabbits a week, then it's really no bother. You forget that these who say differently are not even re-loaders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrelsniffer Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I have recently started using my 22 hornet and am still in the load developing side as i work away not much time...but after i started using it last time i was home i found it a joy to shoot at TGTs for now and realised what i had been missing as i stopped using it a few yrs ago why i dont really know..as i usually use either my 223s for fox, or if after rabbit and fox then i use my 17Rem..if its just rabbits then its either the .22 rimmy or a 17hmr...but will be using my 22 hornet a lot more once i have sorted a nice load which im close to doing..just needs tweaking when next home. Each differing cal has its uses for me depending what and where im shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 You forget that these who say differently are not even re-loaders Seems you have a problem with those that don't reload commenting on using a round of certain types, I have the basic gear to reload but to be honest I never really see the need - my father was always the same - I can't see how that prevents a person on commenting on the performance of a round? Out of curiosity I recently bought a Lee reloading book to have a read - and in the first few pages of the book there is a statement which sums it up nicely - "ammunition is simply a combination of a case, primer, powder and bullit, no black magic"..... Also, I would say the majority of rabbits I've shot with silly sized caliber rifles show remarkably little damage although in fairness it would usually have been soft points not BT's... I have said this in the past but most of my information and guidence within the rifle use area was from my father and one of his friends - both carried arms round places where knowing how a rifle worked wasn't just important - it was critical to ensure you lived! Neither were ever big into reloading yet both had an uncanny talent to pick up most rifles shoot at something and hit it with irritating accuracy! It just seemed ingrained....it wasn't the fact they had counted out the grains of powder in each round. I sometimes feel there is too much focus on the reloading thing for the sake of a 1/4" reduction in group size. If the OP wants a hornet - buy one, shoot it and make your own opinion from that as all you will get on here is opinions from people who may be using the round for different purposes than you plan too, all you get is an idea... I actually agree with Alex in that there is a reason they are not that common a calibre - and that is nothing to do with the fact everyone is "holding onto thier hornet chambered rifle" with a death grip.... Most gun shops with have rows of 308's, 243's, 223''s, 22wmr's 17hmr's and 22LR - because these pretty much cover everything on this island with an overlap here or there.. Regards, Gixer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Gixer, An appology for you mis quote of my statement would have gone down a bit better than the random rant . The statement about re-loading through this thread is about time taken not minutes of a bugs bum improvement to qualfy . How the heck can someone who has never done something make rash statements about the time expended on a task, it was and is that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Ok, simple terms - you stand at one end the tumble weed town with your hornet, a reloading press, scales, case, head, primer and powder.... I'll stand at the other end with a WMR an my cheaply bought factory ammo.... Now draw.... Reloading - no matter if you are the fastest reloaded ever - isn't as simple as buying a brick of rimfire rounds - if it's justification you are looking for then just state the fact you like reloading and messing around - its the same as buying vintage vehicles - they don't do the job as well BUT they are way more enjoyable and have character - I guess the rarer calibers are the same... The OP said reloading was not an issue to be considered in this - it was a comparison he was looking for between 17hmr rf and the hornet. And I didn't misquote you - your wording was poor... With respect and regards, Gixer Edited March 8, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Ok, simple terms - you stand at one end the tumble weed town with your hornet, a reloading press, scales, case, head, primer and powder.... I'll stand at the other end with a WMR an my cheaply bought factory ammo.... Now draw.... Reloading - no matter if you are the fastest reloaded ever - isn't as simple as buying a brick of rimfire rounds - if it's justification you are looking for then just state the fact you like reloading and messing around - its the same as buying vintage vehicles - they don't do the job as well BUT they are way more enjoyable and have character - I guess the rarer calibers are the same... The OP said reloading was not an issue to be considered in this - it was a comparison he was looking for between 17hmr rf and the hornet. And I didn't misquote you - your wording was poor... With respect and regards, Gixer Oh you did but i was being polite. That is a stupid first statement if i was you FEO i should take your ticket, this is what you can expect from lever (cowboy) gun shooters is it It dont shoot that great but i feel like John Wayne so all is good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Oh you did but i was being polite. That is a stupid first statement if i was you FEO i should take your ticket, this is what you can expect from lever (cowboy) gun shooters is it It dont shoot that great but i feel like John Wayne so all is good :lol: are you 12??? I will bow out now as you have turned down the insult road and it will do nothing other than ruin the thread. I was making a light hearted comparison on the time it takes to reload a round versus a factory ready made round - but it went over your head apparently : what action type a gun has and the bearing of that on this thread is a mystery to me :blink: Grow up! Appologies to the op.... Regards, Gixer Edited March 8, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Nail on head gixer its a play caliber for enthusiasts and there is nothing wrong with it, I actually don't have a complete downer on it what gets me is suggesting every newbie to rimfires should have one instead and take up reloading at the same time. Its all pretty complicated to someone who has picked up a rifle and shot a few rounds and thats about it. The hornet fills a niche for those who like to play and reload a few rounds and go and shoot the occasional bunny. When we go lamping I'll usually take 100 rounds of rimfire ammo and a few . 243 occasionally I'll run low, similar if you plink a bit which you tend to do when you start you can get through more than would be practical with a center fire. I reload centerfire as there is a fair difference in cost with the .223 and .243 but reloading for bunny bashing life really is too short time is much better spent in the field shooting IMHO but people differ and needs do. Thats why I tend to get drawn into discussing with kent the negatives of a hornet as a bunny gun. The numbers for sale and availability speak volumes about the general shooting populations requirement for a low powered centerfire. I have a hankering to swap my .223 for something fast and flat shooting but really should just stick to the .243 as it just kills what you point it at. ( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Logic Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good lord Gixer what a load of tosh. The hornet is a reloader's calibre, plain and simple. Factory offerings are poor, inaccurate and expensive. But, when reloaded, it costs the same or less than the magnum rimfires to shoot, makes the same amount of noise (tested and verified) and ****** all over any rimfire in capability. I don't expect you to know this as you don't reload, but please respect those of us who do know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Nail on head gixer its a play caliber for enthusiasts and there is nothing wrong with it, I actually don't have a complete downer on it what gets me is suggesting every newbie to rimfires should have one instead and take up reloading at the same time. Its all pretty complicated to someone who has picked up a rifle and shot a few rounds and thats about it. The hornet fills a niche for those who like to play and reload a few rounds and go and shoot the occasional bunny. When we go lamping I'll usually take 100 rounds of rimfire ammo and a few . 243 occasionally I'll run low, similar if you plink a bit which you tend to do when you start you can get through more than would be practical with a center fire. I reload centerfire as there is a fair difference in cost with the .223 and .243 but reloading for bunny bashing life really is too short time is much better spent in the field shooting IMHO but people differ and needs do. Thats why I tend to get drawn into discussing with kent the negatives of a hornet as a bunny gun. The numbers for sale and availability speak volumes about the general shooting populations requirement for a low powered centerfire. I have a hankering to swap my .223 for something fast and flat shooting but really should just stick to the .243 as it just kills what you point it at. ( Well changing the .223 for something faster and flatter is a move the wrong way as this will bring it even closer to the .243" in performance. You need to consider a move down not up to sepperate it from the .243" if anything. How long you been re-loading only a very short while back you were not if i remember? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Good lord Gixer what a load of tosh. The hornet is a reloader's calibre, plain and simple. Factory offerings are poor, inaccurate and expensive. But, when reloaded, it costs the same or less than the magnum rimfires to shoot, makes the same amount of noise (tested and verified) and ****** all over any rimfire in capability. I don't expect you to know this as you don't reload, but please respect those of us who do know. Erm....that's what I said! :blink: that hornet is a reloaders calibre in the fact if you want to play - thn do that, but don't justify at more useful than a mag rimfire - and the cost will be more - people tend to take the cost of the round components but not the reloading gear - which IS a factor. You say factory ammo is poor, inaccurate and expensive - what's the poor part? and inaccurate?? - I bet more things have been shot with factory rounds three times over than have been with reloads in recent years. and a 22LR rimfire for bunny bashing is going to be quieter than any hornet, unless you are referring to mag r/f's :unsure: So, not tosh at all.... Regards, Gixer Edited March 8, 2012 by gixer1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Good lord Gixer what a load of tosh. The hornet is a reloader's calibre, plain and simple. Factory offerings are poor, inaccurate and expensive. But, when reloaded, it costs the same or less than the magnum rimfires to shoot, makes the same amount of noise (tested and verified) and ****** all over any rimfire in capability. I don't expect you to know this as you don't reload, but please respect those of us who do know. I just cant agree with factory Hornet being poor and inaccurate, though you might not have been able to find one your gun likes granted it happens. Expensive yes, the better stuff will set you back a fair bit and this does make the Hornet a re-loaders gun unless you have no regards for money or dont shoot much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabbit_stu Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 for someone considering buying a hornet, instead of a .17hmr in the future, this thread has been really informative, and good to get both sides of the arguement, glad its steered clear of name calling and stayed informative! cheers guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Well changing the .223 for something faster and flatter is a move the wrong way as this will bring it even closer to the .243" in performance. You need to consider a move down not up to sepperate it from the .243" if anything. How long you been re-loading only a very short while back you were not if i remember? The problem is I have an hmr for rabbiting and problem foxes close up and thats spot on for the job so centerfire would be something with a lighter bullet but not being tight with powder down here I can afford to have a larger case behind it than the hornet. Reloading wise I'm actually not sure its a few years but I'm not a geek reloader I just reload what works for me and don't play about. Its possible I'll just keep the .223 as its simple and works but we shall see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Erm....that's what I said! :blink: that hornet is a reloaders calibre in the fact if you want to play - thn do that, but don't justify at more useful than a mag rimfire - and the cost will be more - people tend to take the cost of the round components but not the reloading gear - which IS a factor. You say factory ammo is poor, inaccurate and expensive - what's the poor part? and inaccurate?? - I bet more things have been shot with factory rounds three times over than have been with reloads in recent years. and a 22LR rimfire for bunny bashing is going to be quieter than any hornet, unless you are referring to mag r/f's :unsure: So, not tosh at all.... Regards, Gixer I think your missing the facts, these pertain purely to the thread in question and i have already stated them in less simple terms. I will now state them in a way that is realy easy to understand just incase some did not understand the words. The Hornet using very commonly available 45 grn seirra Hornet bullets will hand load to 2900 fps. There are better BC bullets but they are either requiring magazine alteration or proove hard to obtain. In comparisom two identical rifles compared in HMR and .22 Hornet with factory 17 grn v-max and the load above will give you 30yds at least extra 1" tunnel shooting (1/2" high or 1/2" low) advantage to the Hornet- NOW COMPARED TO A WMR ITS FAR GREATER ADVANTAGE At 200yds using a 130 yds zero (to achive the tunnel in the Hornet) your 4" low at 200yds In the HMR using a 110 Zero (to achive the tunnel in the HMR) your 8" low at 200 yds In the WMR lets just say dont point it Now to talk winadges the HMR is significantly better than the WMR yet the Hornet with suitable bullets is way better again at those critical 130 + ranges it is showing the HMR a clean pair of heels and inreasing its initial 100yds gains the further it gets. It hard to talk comparisoms because there are so many different bullets compatible with the Hornet but your looking at around half at 130 As regards energy it holds the same energy as a WMR does at the end of the barrel out at 200 yds and more depending on bullet choice. Though this extra wack does not do any greater damage to rabbits for the table than a HMR with similar placement and range as genrally it is just carried into the backstop.(similar to shooting deer with a .375 H&H i assume) In terms of moderation it is as quiet as the hmr - yet as it is safe for c/f moderators (which the HMR is not) with far larger cooling areas it becomes better in real terms. Yes reloading stuff costs but the handloader will normally either load for other calibres anyway so costs can be offset some OR if he only loads Hornet he can make some very nice rounds with just £60-£70 worth of kit via hand dies, priming tool, plasic mallet, small punch and a kitchen table. If he then wishes to make a subsonic round a WMR equivelent etc he will need a set of scales. For the former exising re-loader if he wishes to use a honking big press which is not required for the hornet he need only get a die set which dependant on quality will set him back far less than the £60-£70 suggested. More usefull than a magnum rimfire? yeah you bet it is It is not a first gun, it is better with the .22 LR and something bigger like a .243" or 22-250 on either side of it in the cabinet but yes IT CAN TOTALLY REPLACE BOTH THE MAGNUM RIMFIRES IN USE. Like is said "it is all that and more". Downside is you have to dig deep for factory ammo or re-load. Consider your range on foxes is easily doubled over that of WMR yet you can still do all the other small game stuff with it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Still not as good as a .223 though on all the above. Its going round in circles of theoretical bull excrement. For a bunny gun a hornet is just not worth it and there are far better fox calibers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 The problem is I have an hmr for rabbiting and problem foxes close up and thats spot on for the job so centerfire would be something with a lighter bullet but not being tight with powder down here I can afford to have a larger case behind it than the hornet. Reloading wise I'm actually not sure its a few years but I'm not a geek reloader I just reload what works for me and don't play about. Its possible I'll just keep the .223 as its simple and works but we shall see. The lighter bullet? Why? The .243 is very capable with a 58 grn sort of offering, if you trying to reduce ricochets as much as possible its as good as it gets. More powder aint just about cost, noise and barrel wear do come into it it just seems many are taken over by it magnum rimfire rounds ain dirt cheap at the end of the day. Please read my last post the Hornet will shoot inside that 1" tunnel out to 160 yds with the load i mentioned and a 130yds zero, thats a heck of a combination as a truck gun one round one gun rabbits or foxes. Now if you can keep to sub 200 yds on those foxes (which is 4" low only)................... Many times i have looked at the .20 etc but all said and done the .243 beats it when you talk pure ballistics, the Hornet just aint about that its a case of enough gun without too much or too little of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 (edited) Still not as good as a .223 though on all the above. Its going round in circles of theoretical bull excrement. For a bunny gun a hornet is just not worth it and there are far better fox calibers There you go again with that closed mind- your gonna kick yourself one day if you keep shooting. I keep telling you the .243" beats the .223 by the same argument its just missing the point the Hornet operates in a different place in use spanning the gap between the .22 lr and the hotter .243, 22-250, 22 swift etc. Example my .243 is set on a 200 yds zero during foxing (effective all the way from short range to 300 yds +) bucks the wind about as good as it gets with a 70-87 grn pill. It wont harvest rabbits and hares, it is noisy even when moderated and it burns a lot of powder which leads to costs in barrel wear and rounds The .22 lr and subs is on a 50 yds zero up to 75 yrds it is very usable on rabbits and hares. quiet in the extreame and very cheap to feed. I dont use it on foxes, i can push the range in daylight but tend not to bother unless i am onto a crow The hornet effectively takes over inbetween the two ranges of 75 to 200yds. Is fox capable, is rabbit compatible. Is as quiet as it could ever be and very cheap to re-load for and will never need a new tube as long as i dont let it rust. Will the magnum rimfires replace the hornet? No! they dont give the range, windages or energy. Is a more powerfull .22 c/f going to match the .243? No! Try as you might its one great foxer both in the field and on paper. Edited March 8, 2012 by kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 I can only refer you back to guntrader where there is one new hornet for sale versus rather a lot of magnum rimfires. Thats how much they are taking over. A 150 yard truck gun is fine in my book as simply lamping taking 2 guns when there are 2 of you isn't a hardship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hornet 6 Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Its simple its not a full on fox caliber and its not suitable for proper bunny bashing. Sort of jack of all trades master of none. Yes if you want to pootle about and shoot a few bunnies and maybe the odd fox on foot then it fits the bill. On the other hand if you have a fair few bunnies to go at then its not the tool for the job. Makes me laugh how blinkered a few on here are to them as if you can't shoot numbers with an hmr or .22lr and need to go back to ballistics as something to occupy time its a pure sign you need to get out more and shoot more. You can always get better in theory but then where do you stop certainly I'll shoot the odd bunny with the .243 but not an evenings worth. t That may be your opinion, and you are welcome to it. In my opinion you are wrong, but again that is my opinion, based on shooting several thousand Hornet rounds per year at rabbist and foxes. It does the job better than an HMR, it does it at longer range, in windy weather, and has the power to do a proper job on foxes out to 200 yards. As for reloading, yes it takes time, but as I load in batches of at least 150 it is at worst a hour or two every week, I have that time, some may not. But with the way HMR ammo is going, and it is only going to get worse, and the Hornet is cheaper to run that a HMR, no squib loads, no breech explosions (yet) and it moderates better than the HMR. Neil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 Still not as good as a .223 though on all the above. Its going round in circles of theoretical bull excrement. For a bunny gun a hornet is just not worth it and there are far better fox calibers So what you're saying is that if your maximum range is never ever much greater than this mythical 200 yards and your miserable little toy of a rifle only produces some 450 ft/lbs at that distance, then you still need something better with which to kill a fox. Just how big is Reynard where you are? Not to mention the size of the male bovine as there seem to be a lot of it about.! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 vice versa how big are the rabbits round your and Kents way that require a centrefire to deal with? Its the idea of it being a perfect gun for both roles and its not. It has too much power for a bunny gun and is ok on foxes but you can get better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 vice versa how big are the rabbits round your and Kents way that require a centrefire to deal with? Its the idea of it being a perfect gun for both roles and its not. It has too much power for a bunny gun and is ok on foxes but you can get better. Not too concerned about Kent, as is obvious, he's perfectly capable of looking after himself. The bunnies in my location are as per normal but not too many of them. Loading - or downloading - the other Hornet to suit where the LR is stretched too far takes care of them nicely. So, come on, stop squirming and answer the question, please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted March 8, 2012 Report Share Posted March 8, 2012 its not squirming at all foxes being inedible and hardy I like to hit as hard as possible so usually use the .243 its not a gun i'm likely to replace with a hornet, and you and kent with your heads in figures and ballistic charts will well know its superior in every way Rabbits here are usually lamped and you're doing well if you can see them and they are out of HMR range with a filter on I'm not saying its a pointless caliber entirely as it suits some people but as you can see from the sheer number of new ones being manufactured they are mostly on here and trying to start their own 22 hornet fan club Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.