.22 hornet, some advice please

[Mr_Logic]

Oh dear lord. Hornet is a wonderful little calibre and directly replaces HMR with something capable on fox. It IS a rabbit calibre. It is quiet and cheap; 243 cannot do that. Round livestock, I want a bloody good reason to use one, where Hornet doesn't cause much upset.

[wymberley]

 

I'm not saying its a pointless caliber entirely

 

There, that didn't hurt too much did it! The cracks are starting to show so we'll leave it there for now. But by the end of the year you'll be admitting that it can be very capable out to a good 200 yards which in any right minded point of view makes it a fox calibre, but just not one for the more extreme ranges.

[kent]

I can only refer you back to guntrader where there is one new hornet for sale versus rather a lot of magnum rimfires. Thats how much they are taking over. A 150 yard truck gun is fine in my book as simply lamping taking 2 guns when there are 2 of you isn't a hardship.

 

You know the lack of second hand ones realy does prove two things 1. those that buy them tend to keep them 2. those that keep them have generally sold a stack of other calibres in thier shooting careers.

 

The fact that there is only one new one does not mean they are rare. Go in your dealer and ask him to phone Edgars up and see if they have any they might send straight away from stock. New guns make little money for the dealer these days many if truthfull admit they only sell them to gain well priced second hand swapers and so they might sell the mounts, moderators,scopes etc. With this in mind .223 , .243 , .22 lr and 17 HMR are alway gonna be the New guns on the shelf as most potential buyers have slots for these.

 

actually i will take a punt and say the Hornet is becoming more popular after the HMR has been with us a while now. Many have been awakened to the possibility of the light rifle (calibre wise) that can effectively deal with crows, rabbits, hares all the way up to foxes. People like myself thought (quite wrongly) there was little point in anything between the trusty .22 LR and the .222 rem, the HMR hype awakened us but we found it lacking on its initial promise (it did ricochet, it wasn't to be trusted on the terminals, the 200yds billing is way too far for it on live quarry and its windy as heck).

 

BTW please stop saying 150 yds for the Hornet the thing will shoot a 1" tunnel out to 160 yds as i have already stated NIL hold! At 200 yds its only 4" low based on the 130yds zero that acomplishes this afore mentione tunnel. So without any dialing of turrets a competant rifleman can drop anything he needs out to 200 yrds with a little hold over and beyond dependant on his skill and the previaling conditions he can start dialing in. Remember it carries the energy of the WMR at the muzzle at this 200yds so foxes and carion crows should fear it.

 

My own primary reasons for one were i had a long running issue with terminals on Crows with the HMR and as i shoot a heck of a lot of them neither did i want to use too much gun. Also i wanted a carry gun that could take on anything without turning the dog deaf and generally creating any more disturbence than was totally required to get the job done. It turned into way more than that though and i am here today kicking myself i didn't listen to some of the old timers who stuck up for the "lil Gun" years ago when i started up and was laughing at them and extolling the virtues .222 and bigger, you see i missed the whole point

[Hornet 6]

vice versa how big are the rabbits round your and Kents way that require a centrefire to deal with? Its the idea of it being a perfect gun for both roles and its not. It has too much power for a bunny gun and is ok on foxes but you can get better.

 

No bigger than yours, but they do need dealing with out to 200 yards, although more usually 150 yards.

Now I suppose you could do it with a more expensive to run HMR, that doesn't perform in the wind, won't humanly

kill a fox past about 70 yards (and not at all in Essex and many other places these days)and can't be relied on to always

expand, and put up with the lously ammo that seems to becoming very common.

You choice, I made mine and the HMR got sent down the road, the .223 would follow it except for it being small deer leagal.

(.223 did get changed though, why have £1500 in a rifle/mod/scope that gets out maybe twice year when £100 sorted a replacement)

 

Neil.

[gixer1]

No bigger than yours, but they do need dealing with out to 200 yards, although more usually 150 yards.

Now I suppose you could do it with a more expensive to run HMR, that doesn't perform in the wind, won't humanly

kill a fox past about 70 yards (and not at all in Essex and many other places these days)and can't be relied on to always

expand, and put up with the lously ammo that seems to becoming very common.

You choice, I made mine and the HMR got sent down the road, the .223 would follow it except for it being small deer leagal.

(.223 did get changed though, why have £1500 in a rifle/mod/scope that gets out maybe twice year when £100 sorted a replacement)

 

Neil.

 

Why would rabbits need taken out to 150-200 yards? Is this a requirement or just because the shooter wants too? By far and away i have found the most effective way to deal with rabbits as a pest species is a lamp and 22LR and if you want to shoot a fox take a bigger calibre such as 22-250, 223 or 243...

 

I'm not putting the calibre down I just don't see a requirement if you already have - for example- 22LR and a 243 in the cabinet - I see people with a want/passion for it but really it's no more efficient for the overall picture - and nothing that has been said here has changed that in my opinion.

 

Are people struggling to get close to rabbits nowadays or something?

 

Regards,

Gixer

[njc110381]

Al4x - you keep saying that the Hornet is too much for Rabbits and not enough for serious Fox work. You may be right but some of us are looking for a one gun answer.

 

So answer this - isn't a .223 even worse for bunnies than a Hornet? And isn't the Hornet better than a HMR for Fox? That's why we like them. It's a mid calibre that does both jobs acceptably well. Neither of the calibres you have do that in my experience. I've shot plenty of Foxes with a HMR and plenty of bunnies with a .223 but put those two totals together and it doesn't come close to the number I've shot with the Hornet.

 

For me and in fact for most of us that own one, it does the job well. I bet you've had more than a couple of occasions when you've thought "****, I wish I had my .223 for this Fox" when you've been out on the bunnies? Can't say as I have since I traded in my HMR.

[Underdog]

You know the lack of second hand ones realy does prove two things 1. those that buy them tend to keep them 2. those that keep them have generally sold a stack of other calibres in thier shooting careers.

 

The fact that there is only one new one does not mean they are rare. Go in your dealer and ask him to phone Edgars up and see if they have any they might send straight away from stock. New guns make little money for the dealer these days many if truthfull admit they only sell them to gain well priced second hand swapers and so they might sell the mounts, moderators,scopes etc. With this in mind .223 , .243 , .22 lr and 17 HMR are alway gonna be the New guns on the shelf as most potential buyers have slots for these.

 

actually i will take a punt and say the Hornet is becoming more popular after the HMR has been with us a while now. Many have been awakened to the possibility of the light rifle (calibre wise) that can effectively deal with crows, rabbits, hares all the way up to foxes. People like myself thought (quite wrongly) there was little point in anything between the trusty .22 LR and the .222 rem, the HMR hype awakened us but we found it lacking on its initial promise (it did ricochet, it wasn't to be trusted on the terminals, the 200yds billing is way too far for it on live quarry and its windy as heck).

 

BTW please stop saying 150 yds for the Hornet the thing will shoot a 1" tunnel out to 160 yds as i have already stated NIL hold! At 200 yds its only 4" low based on the 130yds zero that acomplishes this afore mentione tunnel. So without any dialing of turrets a competant rifleman can drop anything he needs out to 200 yrds with a little hold over and beyond dependant on his skill and the previaling conditions he can start dialing in. Remember it carries the energy of the WMR at the muzzle at this 200yds so foxes and carion crows should fear it.

 

My own primary reasons for one were i had a long running issue with terminals on Crows with the HMR and as i shoot a heck of a lot of them neither did i want to use too much gun. Also i wanted a carry gun that could take on anything without turning the dog deaf and generally creating any more disturbence than was totally required to get the job done. It turned into way more than that though and i am here today kicking myself i didn't listen to some of the old timers who stuck up for the "lil Gun" years ago when i started up and was laughing at them and extolling the virtues .222 and bigger, you see i missed the whole point

 

Spot on

 

I am considering going back to Hornet, a nice little toting rifle is all I would need these days.

 

U.

[kent]

Al4x - you keep saying that the Hornet is too much for Rabbits and not enough for serious Fox work. You may be right but some of us are looking for a one gun answer.

 

So answer this - isn't a .223 even worse for bunnies than a Hornet? And isn't the Hornet better than a HMR for Fox? That's why we like them. It's a mid calibre that does both jobs acceptably well. Neither of the calibres you have do that in my experience. I've shot plenty of Foxes with a HMR and plenty of bunnies with a .223 but put those two totals together and it doesn't come close to the number I've shot with the Hornet.

 

For me and in fact for most of us that own one, it does the job well. I bet you've had more than a couple of occasions when you've thought "****, I wish I had my .223 for this Fox" when you've been out on the bunnies? Can't say as I have since I traded in my HMR.

 

Although i feel the first paragraph should read very differently, the middle and end are totally crack on the principle

[kent]

Why would rabbits need taken out to 150-200 yards? Is this a requirement or just because the shooter wants too? By far and away i have found the most effective way to deal with rabbits as a pest species is a lamp and 22LR and if you want to shoot a fox take a bigger calibre such as 22-250, 223 or 243...

 

I'm not putting the calibre down I just don't see a requirement if you already have - for example- 22LR and a 243 in the cabinet - I see people with a want/passion for it but really it's no more efficient for the overall picture - and nothing that has been said here has changed that in my opinion.

 

Are people struggling to get close to rabbits nowadays or something?

 

Regards,

Gixer

 

In most cases we dont the massive majority i shoot are on the lamp in the winter of mooching about in the warmer months. If you can stalk within 70 yds of crows for a shot reliably your going some though (so there are plenty of jobs for a Hornet) The hornet is ok to use at very much shorter ranges on rabbits though aswell remember. If you already have a .22 lr and a .243" IMO you have the perfect stable mates for a Hornet, going from .22 lr to .243" there is a massive gap created by adding a WMR or HMR to span it

[al4x]

Al4x - you keep saying that the Hornet is too much for Rabbits and not enough for serious Fox work. You may be right but some of us are looking for a one gun answer.

 

So answer this - isn't a .223 even worse for bunnies than a Hornet? And isn't the Hornet better than a HMR for Fox? That's why we like them. It's a mid calibre that does both jobs acceptably well. Neither of the calibres you have do that in my experience. I've shot plenty of Foxes with a HMR and plenty of bunnies with a .223 but put those two totals together and it doesn't come close to the number I've shot with the Hornet.

 

For me and in fact for most of us that own one, it does the job well. I bet you've had more than a couple of occasions when you've thought "****, I wish I had my .223 for this Fox" when you've been out on the bunnies? Can't say as I have since I traded in my HMR.

 

 

it wasn't so long ago that all your foxes shot with a hornet were just being wounded and running off never to be seen again

 

That aside I have to say I've shot just over 30 foxes now with the HMR and can actually say none has gone more than 10 feet using ballistic tips, I had two when I tried 20 grain ammo that went as far as cover and then died but that was with a hole straight through the body just a very small one without enough trauma. Both picked fine and dead on arrival of the hound so no issues. I can safely say I've very rarely had the wrong tool for the job as we lamp from a vehicle so both guns are there so all bases covered.

As a one gun answer if you aren't doing serious rabbit work then it fills a gap, a serious bunny gun it still isn't IMHO I just can't see doing 100 rounds of centerfire ammo in a night as being a reasonable option. If you lamp on foot then a .22lr is still required and from a vehicle the HMR takes some beating simply die to the range you get.

[kent]

it wasn't so long ago that all your foxes shot with a hornet were just being wounded and running off never to be seen again

 

That aside I have to say I've shot just over 30 foxes now with the HMR and can actually say none has gone more than 10 feet using ballistic tips, I had two when I tried 20 grain ammo that went as far as cover and then died but that was with a hole straight through the body just a very small one without enough trauma. Both picked fine and dead on arrival of the hound so no issues. I can safely say I've very rarely had the wrong tool for the job as we lamp from a vehicle so both guns are there so all bases covered.

As a one gun answer if you aren't doing serious rabbit work then it fills a gap, a serious bunny gun it still isn't IMHO I just can't see doing 100 rounds of centerfire ammo in a night as being a reasonable option. If you lamp on foot then a .22lr is still required and from a vehicle the HMR takes some beating simply die to the range you get.

 

Lamping on foot does not give the option of carrying more than one gun and thats a big point. i don't think we are being sensible talking of 100rounds as that is totally .22 lr territory, it is not such an issue to carry 100 Hornet rounds and it aint too labour intensive to make them either.

 

I find your claims of 30 foxes with non going more than 10ft a little spurious i must say. You dont say they all died perfectly, if you do say this i take the option not to believe you. Case in point i wounded a Rabbit with a head shot at way less than 25yds with the gun you say is too much for rabbits, the shot went low as it had yet to meet the line of sight. Without being overly graphic it removed the lower section of the head - didn't run away and was quickly finished and guess what that happened on two occasions with the HMR once on a bunny once on a Hare.

 

Don't come at suggesting the Hornet hasn't got the ft lb energy required for fox, like i say dependant on bullet choice your looking at .22 WMR muzzle energy at 200yds. All guns can and do wound for pities sake and i am always sceptical of those who claim otherwise. Seems strange you now extolling the virtues of the HMR's killing profficency yet talking down that of the far more powerfull Hornet

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

Goodness, over 80 replies and over a thousand views. I seem to have opened a pandoras box.

 

Some very good points have been made and i have certainly learned alot regarding the hornet.

 

I have been lucky over the years to get some permissions that had a steady population of rabbits. I have two permissions in particular that before i got them were shot over by lads with shotguns.during the day and night. The upshot of this is as soon as a rabbit sees a lamp they are off. They are not in huge numbers but do need reducing anually (some 50 or so anually usually sees the job done). These rabbits in paticular on a still night or moonlit night are impossible to get near with the .22 and have been a challenge with the .17. I have recently picked up a new permission with alot of twitchy rabbits because of the same reasons.

 

My plan has always been to use the .22lr for the majority of our bunny cull and to use the hornet for the lamp shy twitchy ones. I did put a post in sporting pics recently of some 40+ bunnies taken with the .22 however the bunnies in that area are getting wised up already and it will not be long before the .22 starts to be less effective.

 

When would i take a hornet out? when i had twitchy rabbits to deal with and wasnt expecting a big night say 8-15 rabbits or so with the possibility of a fox being around (as said previously for serious fox work i have my .243.) those 8-15 rabbits taken an a regular basis would be the difference between doing a good job for the farmers and an ok one. i would imagine firing some 200 to 300 rounds per year on bunnies plus whatever i use in practice.

 

The hornet does seem to be a niche calibre, and thats fine it is what i want. i dont mind the reloading for the amount of rounds i expect to use and running costs dont worry me (got medium depth pockets) if it meets the above criteria which it sure seems to.

 

There is also the most impotant factor to be taken into account. I enjoy going shooting, i enjoy the challenge of fieldcraft and marksmanship and most importantly i haven't treated myself to a new rifle for ages.

 

Thanks for all your comments you have put my mind at ease, the hornet seems to fit MY bill.

[wymberley]

Goodness, over 80 replies and over a thousand views. I seem to have opened a pandoras box.

 

Some very good points have been made and i have certainly learned alot regarding the hornet.

 

I have been lucky over the years to get some permissions that had a steady population of rabbits. I have two permissions in particular that before i got them were shot over by lads with shotguns.during the day and night. The upshot of this is as soon as a rabbit sees a lamp they are off. They are not in huge numbers but do need reducing anually (some 50 or so anually usually sees the job done). These rabbits in paticular on a still night or moonlit night are impossible to get near with the .22 and have been a challenge with the .17. I have recently picked up a new permission with alot of twitchy rabbits because of the same reasons.

 

My plan has always been to use the .22lr for the majority of our bunny cull and to use the hornet for the lamp shy twitchy ones. I did put a post in sporting pics recently of some 40+ bunnies taken with the .22 however the bunnies in that area are getting wised up already and it will not be long before the .22 starts to be less effective.

 

When would i take a hornet out? when i had twitchy rabbits to deal with and wasnt expecting a big night say 8-15 rabbits or so with the possibility of a fox being around (as said previously for serious fox work i have my .243.) those 8-15 rabbits taken an a regular basis would be the difference between doing a good job for the farmers and an ok one. i would imagine firing some 200 to 300 rounds per year on bunnies plus whatever i use in practice.

 

The hornet does seem to be a niche calibre, and thats fine it is what i want. i dont mind the reloading for the amount of rounds i expect to use and running costs dont worry me (got medium depth pockets) if it meets the above criteria which it sure seems to.

 

There is also the most impotant factor to be taken into account. I enjoy going shooting, i enjoy the challenge of fieldcraft and marksmanship and most importantly i haven't treated myself to a new rifle for ages.

 

Thanks for all your comments you have put my mind at ease, the hornet seems to fit MY bill.

 

I said from the word go that you'd probably already made your mind up!

 

Apart from being a very pleasant post, out of the 80 odd, this is also the best one as an advert for the advantages of having and using a Hornet.

 

Nice one!

[Gonna Shoot a Wabbit]

I said from the word go that you'd probably already made your mind up!

 

Apart from being a very pleasant post, out of the 80 odd, this is also the best one as an advert for the advantages of having and using a Hornet.

 

Nice one!

i had heard from only one source the advantages of the hornet and as you say my mind was almost made up, it seemed to fit the bill for what i wanted. I do believe that before commiting the ol' hard earned it is always wise to get other opinions.

 

I have heard enough to the positive for any lingering doubt to be satisfied, time to look round at whats available methinks

 

Many thanks everyone.

[al4x]

 

 

I have heard enough to the positive for any lingering doubt to be satisfied, time to look round at whats available methinks

 

 

that will be one new one and 7 second hand in the country then

 

seriously though you'll probably find it fills a gap in your arsenal

[wymberley]

that will be one new one and 7 second hand in the country then

 

seriously though you'll probably find it fills a gap in your arsenal

 

Another pleasant post!

 

Well said!

 

Don't think that the OP will see it though as if he's got any sense (seems he may just have), he'll be legging it to greater Manchester!

[njc110381]

it wasn't so long ago that all your foxes shot with a hornet were just being wounded and running off never to be seen again

 

I can't argue about the seven Foxes that ran off after I shot them with a new bullet I'd loaded up. The couple of hundred before hand had fallen over just fine most of the time to several other bullets, although I must say I've had more runners than you seem to get with your HMR even with small Deer calibres!

 

Is it a Hornady Magnum Rimfire you're using or a Huge Massive Rocketlauncher? :look:

[Hornet 6]

If you lamp on foot then a .22lr is still required and from a vehicle the HMR takes some beating simply die to the range you get.

 

.22lr, I like mine and get to use it most of the winter, well when the ground is soft anyway.

On hard ground it is a stay at home for me, ricochets I can do without, too many people about around my shoot.

As for the HMR, yup great range, at least 150 yards, if there is no wind, or 100 yards in a moderate breeze.

For me here in Essex the HMR is a rabbit only gun, and with all the split necks, squib loads and the resultant problems it

is no longer an option for me, should CCI ever sort the ammo out I may reconsider in the future, but short of moving

to an area that allow it for fox it is still just an expensive to shoot rabbit gun.

The hornet for me at least ticks all the boxes, easy to load for, cheap to run, accurate and kills foxes legally, and not too much for rabbits.

 

Neil.

[al4x]

I actually would question if you have ano hmr after all those points hornet. Ammo isn't that bad you get a few occasional posts on here with issues but the number of people with one is huge. Split necks happen but certainly don't seem to affect performance generally. I can also point out all the foxes I've had with mine were perfectly legal and above board. Nj its probably the fact I don't stretch it far that seems to be why they fall over

[kent]

I actually would question if you have ano hmr after all those points hornet. Ammo isn't that bad you get a few occasional posts on here with issues but the number of people with one is huge. Split necks happen but certainly don't seem to affect performance generally. I can also point out all the foxes I've had with mine were perfectly legal and above board. Nj its probably the fact I don't stretch it far that seems to be why they fall over

 

Well thats one answer to it Brings to mind the question how far is far and how far is too far. Yet still i think most with more than a snatch of experiance might put it down to luck or BS.

With a Hornet on the other hand................

[Hornet 6]

I actually would question if you have ano hmr after all those points hornet. Ammo isn't that bad you get a few occasional posts on here with issues but the number of people with one is huge. Split necks happen but certainly don't seem to affect performance generally. I can also point out all the foxes I've had with mine were perfectly legal and above board. Nj its probably the fact I don't stretch it far that seems to be why they fall over

 

Another one, your probably right, as it stands now I won't.

As for the ammo problems, what you seee posted on forums is the tip of a much larger iceburg, I have been told of a shop that has 6 hmrs waiting for replacement.

My local shop has 2, these are all damaged due to a squib round stuck in barrel and another one fired behind it, I hope I would notice one not going off.

I did have an HM2 that sufferd more squibs than good shots, for the same reason, split case that had lead on to damp powder that failed to go bang.

I have used my HMR on foxes, until my feo pointed out although I was shooting in a county that allowed it, I had to stick to my conditions no matter where I was.

It did the job after a fashion, but not one was a clean dead right there.

 

Neil.

[cockercas]

i have a hornet (as of yesterday) i also have .22lr and .243, the hornet is great and fills the gap nicely

[njc110381]

I've had some quite close Foxes run from shots I've taken with the HMR. Sub 50 yard shots even. My feelings are that at long range it doesn't really have the grunt and at closer ranges the bullets are flying fast enough for them to surface splash, especially if they hit bone. Don't get me wrong I knocked plenty of Foxes over with mine and they dropped dead on the spot, but the number of runners made me feel bad - I knew I should be doing better.

 

I think the issues I had with the Hornet a while back can be put down to two things. Me placing my shots a little too far back, and the bullet not expanding at all. Just to prove my point I took some and fired them into a lage tub of water at just under 100 yards. They mushroomed lightly and dropped the jacket but still they didn't lose much weight or break up. I don't think they were transferring much of their energy to the Fox - entirely my fault as I used the wrong bullet for the job and didn't place it perfectly.

 

With a slightly more frangible bullet that couple of inches of shot placement wouldn't have mattered one bit. Certainly the 35gr V-Max I used to use would floor a Fox right out to 200 yards with a shot placed anywhere low and forward of the gut. It's a shame that bullet just doesn't run well in the wind.

[al4x]

 

I have used my HMR on foxes, until my feo pointed out although I was shooting in a county that allowed it, I had to stick to my conditions no matter where I was.

 

 

you were quite lucky to keep your ticket breaking your conditions and admitting to it in such a way, you've this county thing completely wrong. I can shoot foxes in essex with one and there is **** all they can do about it. Its the words on your own ticket nothing else

[gixer1]

Well thats one answer to it Brings to mind the question how far is far and how far is too far. Yet still i think most with more than a snatch of experiance might put it down to luck or BS.

With a Hornet on the other hand................

 

 

And of course you just happen to be one of these people with a wealth of experience?

 

As Alex has said if you keep ranges sensible on fox then a rimfire will almost certainly do the job - when I say sensible I mean sub 100 yards for a magnum rimfire and in my opinion sub 50 for a 22LR....

 

I still can't see much need to shoot rabbits long range as normally they are very easy to get close to, and anyone who has more than a "snatch" of experience can find a way to get close to a fox too.... that way you can be pretty much assured of a good kill as long as shot placement is correct, I personally have never had a fox run on if the shot placement has been good with a WMR, or a 22LR - with the 22LR all the foxes were shot withing 40yards of a highseat or vehicle - although I would say I had a bad experience with an HMR although it may have been pushing the effective range a bit as it was infancy the first fox I shot with an HMR - and in reality the last... Although this can be put down to that bad experience and having to empty a mag into the fox to stop it shuffling along the stubble field it was in...

 

Regards,

Gixer

 

Regards,

Gixer

Edited March 10, 2012 by gixer1