nobbyathome Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 i went to a gunshop saturday and being a newbie was enquiring on chokes etc i was told if i was shooting with steel shot to leave the gun open on full choke as lead flexes during the choke process and steel does not so therefore will eventually distort the end of the gun if chokes are set smaller is that so ? the shooting ground i shoot from only allows steel and i dont want to buy a gold e and ****** it up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Other way round , my manual says dont use full choke with steel shot , general advice I was led to believe if more open bored like 1/4 choke , sure someone on here with more experience will be more specific. Julian Edited March 12, 2012 by Zulu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 There is a huge amount of confusion on the subject of steel shot. HP steel for waterfowl is different to steel clay loads. BASC have a good guide to steel shot. Steel patterns tighter than lead and 1/2 choke is normally enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piebob Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 i went to a gunshop saturday and being a newbie was enquiring on chokes etc i was told if i was shooting with steel shot to leave the gun open on full choke Perhaps it is just the way you have phrased this, but you appear to have been told rubbish or have misunderstood. Full choke is the completely the opposite of open choke, so it's impossible to "leave the gun open on full choke". Are you sure the gunshop didn't say something like "use open chokes"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 yes i phrased it wrong basically he said if i purchased a gun with fixed chokes it ruins the end of the barrels i said i was after a gold e with a full set of chokes and he said i need to leave the chokes open fully wide so there is not any choke used if i used chokes to tighten up the shot with steel there is to much pressure inside the end of the gun where it meets the chokes and the barells will eventually distort if that is true at my local club they only allow steel so it means i cannot use any chokes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Some people change their chokes willy-nilly. In your case, I'd be inclined to change gun shops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Type in "basc steel shot " into google and pick the second link down. All the info there. i cant add a link as my new phone is having a funny one. The majority of steel loads have a plastic shot cup which stops any barrel damage. What your gunshop has said ref to chokes (assuming you have interpreted it a tad wrong) is correct. Open chokes (not full as that choke is the tightest not the loosest) will make sense but you can go a bit tighter. You can shoot high performance steel loads (waterfowl) through upto half choke(as long as smaller than 4mm) with clay loads it is a tad different as the loads are not as fast and lower pressures. Pop either cyl or 1/4 or 1/2 in and all clay loads will be fine. ( steel patterns a touch tighter than lead naturally). It is belived that steel doesnt like to be choked as this can affect pattern, personnaly my gun patterns better with cyl and 1/2 .....1/4 is a real shoddy pattern through my gun with steel so i either use 1/2 or cylinder ( most open). Have a read through that basc pdf and that should give you a clearer view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Sorry didnt see your next post, barrel distortion worse case scenario is a choke bulge. I have stuck 100's of hp steel loads through my auto with 1/2 choke and it is fine. Edited March 12, 2012 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfolio Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Have a read through of the Beretta owners manual and take the words straight from the horses mouth? http://www.berettausa.com/file.aspx?DocumentId=20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here you go http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/BAC60995-5CBE-4047-8AD032DF16AD1F1A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobbyathome Posted March 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 as always thank you for your information guys . rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Here you go http://www.basc.org.uk/download.cfm/docid/BAC60995-5CBE-4047-8AD032DF16AD1F1A What concerns me is the difference between eliminate and minimise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) What concerns me is the difference between eliminate and minimise. Would you mind elaborating on your point as i am not following ? Edited March 12, 2012 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Would you mind elaborating on your point as i am not following ? Of course, just read your BASC link - have to rush off - if you don't find it, sing out and I'll explain more later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) If you mean the dangers of damaging guns, i perceived this as more of a bottom covering exercise and the dangers really are minimal. Just looking at the yanks for instance, their proof reg's are a lot different than ours but there guns come from the same place ? I think the steel shot regs in this country dare i say it are a tad paranoid (dons tin hat) obviously you would never recomend anyone does something stupid (myself included) but homeloaders have been loading steel outside of cip regs for years to good and safe affect. Obviously an old English game gun compared to something more modern is a different kettle of fish. I think following the basc pdf file is a safe move and is sound advice. Hope i have got your point (the joys of a 2 year old that doesnt sleep ) Edited March 12, 2012 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you mean the dangers of damaging guns, i perceived this as more of an bottom covering exercise and the dangers really are minimal. Just looking at the yanks for instance, their proof reg's are a lot different than ours but there guns come from the same place ? I didnt think they had proof houses in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 If you mean the dangers of damaging guns, i perceived this as more of an bottom covering exercise and the dangers really are minimal. Just looking at the yanks for instance, their proof reg's are a lot different than ours but there guns come from the same place ? I think the steel shot regs in this country dare i say it are a tad paranoid (dons tin hat) obviously you would never recomend anyone does something stupid (myself included) but homeloaders have been loading steel outside of cip regs for years to good and safe affect. I think following the basc pdf file is a safe move and is sound advice. Hope i have got your point (the joys of a 2 year old that doesnt sleep ) Good oh! You found it. The trouble with bottom covering exercises is that sometimes it can lead to nappy rash - know what I mean?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I didnt think they had proof houses in the US? I'm sure they have a regs system (saami) ? Proof house I'm not sure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Good oh! You found it. The trouble with bottom covering exercises is that sometimes it can lead to nappy rash - know what I mean?! Most certainly see your point, my belief with these type of documents is read it, take what you will from it and act on that information in as safer way as possible with an informed decision Would you agree that the CIP regs need revisiting in the future ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P~MX Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 do away with the steel **** and there will be no safety worries with it !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Most certainly see your point, my belief with these type of documents is read it, take what you will from it and act on that information in as safer way as possible with an informed decision Would you agree that the CIP regs need revisiting in the future ? Re CIP, to be honest, I haven't a clue. Both my guns will see me out and then some. As they're both chambered 21/2" I won't be using steel. When the use of steel was being muted, the criteria for its use which we are all aware of were introduced. To be honest, I'm not now sure if, "must not damage existing guns" (I concede that the wads take care of the undue internal barrel wear) was listed or even thought necessary at that time. An increase in the barrel external diameter is known as a ring bulge and is the result of the barrel material exceeding its elastic limit. The piece in italics in your link concedes that there are risks of this occurring. In my view that should have been enough to prevent its use until this potential was eliminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) Re CIP, to be honest, I haven't a clue. Both my guns will see me out and then some. As they're both chambered 21/2" I won't be using steel. When the use of steel was being muted, the criteria for its use which we are all aware of were introduced. To be honest, I'm not now sure if, "must not damage existing guns" (I concede that the wads take care of the undue internal barrel wear) was listed or even thought necessary at that time. An increase in the barrel external diameter is known as a ring bulge and is the result of the barrel material exceeding its elastic limit. The piece in italics in your link concedes that there are risks of this occurring. In my view that should have been enough to prevent its use until this potential was eliminated. I do see your point about the potential danger being eliminated, however I feel that there are enough measures their for steel to be used safely in the correct way (obviously putting bb's through full choke is asking for trouble) but choke bulging (keeping within the pressure and age restraints of your gun as you normally would) is the issue here which is not going to cause a gun to go bang. I think part of the issue is there are steel converts who have used it to excellent affect (myself) and those that are not.......I think this debate will still go on for years to come For me this is why we need clearer and more concise regulations to eliminate any "grey areas " Edited March 12, 2012 by mpk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 I do see your point about the potential danger being eliminated, however I feel that there are enough measures their for steel to be used safely in the correct way (obviously putting bb's through full choke is asking for trouble) but choke bulging (keeping within the pressure and age restraints of your gun as you normally would) is the issue here which is not going to cause a gun to go bang. I think part of the issue is there are steel converts who have used it to excellent affect (myself) and those that are not.......I think this debate will still go on for years to come For me this is why we need clearer and more concise regulations to eliminate any "grey areas " Yep, agree, it's not going to go bang. However, as a layman, I would like qualified assurance that where a ring bulge (the charge pressure may well be within limits, but it is the load pressure that's out of control) has occured and the metal is stressed having exceeded its elastic limit and will so continue, that stress corrosion of carbon steel in a nitro powder environment wil not occur and consequently eventually result in premature failure. However, not too concerned as lead will see me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpk Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 Cant question wanting 100% assurance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted March 12, 2012 Report Share Posted March 12, 2012 i use a 1974 spanish sxs and according to gamebore and my gunsmith i can only use 4s and 5s in steel,,,strange but true :hmm: i have put plenty of 7 1/2 through it without any problems :yes: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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