Deer stalking/foxing gun

[The Jackson]

Guys, I'm just getting started into deer stalking, I also do foxing and I'm after a new gun.

 

I've got about £600 to spend and would appreciate evryones opinions on a gun.

 

I'm looking at .243

 

Thanks Nathan

 

Sorry the title should say Foxing not fixing

Edited May 7, 2012 by The Jackson

[Bewsher500]

cheap parker hale and a reasonable second hand S&B 8x56

 

lots around.

My PH 243 cost me about £90

slapped a £500 scope on it and it does what you want from it with 100gn Interlocks for deer and 90 Bergers for fox

[Gimlet]

Beware old Parkys that have been shot out and cut down. Somewhat less of a problem with a .243 than a .308 but there's a lot of them about and it can be very difficult to get them to shoot well. To make the most of a .243s foxing potential you want something that can handle fast flat rounds and shoot tidy to 300 yds. If you don't know how to check bore condition take someone with you who does.

[Beretta28g]

6.5x55SE It can handle heavier bullets more suited to stalking. Foxes dont like them either.

[The Jackson]

Thanks guys

[apache]

6.5x55SE It can handle heavier bullets more suited to stalking. Foxes dont like them either.

+1

[Bewsher500]

Beware old Parkys that have been shot out and cut down. Somewhat less of a problem with a .243 than a .308 but there's a lot of them about and it can be very difficult to get them to shoot well. To make the most of a .243s foxing potential you want something that can handle fast flat rounds and shoot tidy to 300 yds. If you don't know how to check bore condition take someone with you who does.

 

really?

I have 3 and none of the people I know who have bought them has suffered a shot out one.

If anything they are exactly the kind of rifle that has only ever shot factory and in very low numbers. They were bought in the 1000's by occasional stalkers as they were not pricey.

 

All of mine looked a lot worse on the outside than they did on the inside. one looked like it has seen less than a box of ammo. the bolt race still had bluing on it places despite the fact the stock finish was battered.

The quality of the old PH, BSA etc barrels was infinitely better than some significantly more expensive brands now.

 

a 90 quid PH .243 shooting 100gr inters ("It'll never stabilise those"....... I was told)

 

 

[kent]

really?

I have 3 and none of the people I know who have bought them has suffered a shot out one.

If anything they are exactly the kind of rifle that has only ever shot factory and in very low numbers. They were bought in the 1000's by occasional stalkers as they were not pricey.

 

All of mine looked a lot worse on the outside than they did on the inside. one looked like it has seen less than a box of ammo. the bolt race still had bluing on it places despite the fact the stock finish was battered.

The quality of the old PH, BSA etc barrels was infinitely better than some significantly more expensive brands now.

 

a 90 quid PH .243 shooting 100gr inters ("It'll never stabilise those"....... I was told)

 

 

 

 

GOSH YOU AINT PUTTING MUCH POWDER IN THERE !

[kent]

if that includes scopes and mounts, then get the best secondhand one you can. If its just the gun you aint too far away from a NEW cz with a bit of haggling

[Gimlet]

really?

I have 3 and none of the people I know who have bought them has suffered a shot out one.

If anything they are exactly the kind of rifle that has only ever shot factory and in very low numbers. They were bought in the 1000's by occasional stalkers as they were not pricey.

 

All of mine looked a lot worse on the outside than they did on the inside. one looked like it has seen less than a box of ammo. the bolt race still had bluing on it places despite the fact the stock finish was battered.

The quality of the old PH, BSA etc barrels was infinitely better than some significantly more expensive brands now.

 

a 90 quid PH .243 shooting 100gr inters ("It'll never stabilise those"....... I was told)

 

 

 

I've had two, one of them from new, and both have served me well. But I know two or three people who have bought tired guns they weren't happy with. All .308s as I recall. And that's the point: don't assume anything with cheap guns, especially obsolete cheap guns. None of these old Parkys floating around are getting any younger and they are often bought by first timers who may not know what to look for. Its the cut ones to check with care, and if cut and threaded make sure they've been proofed. And they are very hard to p/ex. Dealers take them in for nothing, lop 2" off the barrel, thread them and bang them out for £250, but if you want to shift one through a dealer they practically want you to pay them to take them off your hands.

But I agree there are some intact light use Parkys to be had which are real bargains, especially in less popular calibres like .270. And I particularly agree about old Beezas. I've got a CF2 in .222 and its a cracking gun. The Sako of its day and a match for any modern gun 5 times the price.

 

PS: is that a Midland Safari in the photo? They were pretty little guns.

Edited May 14, 2012 by Gimlet

[Bewsher500]

GOSH YOU AINT PUTTING MUCH POWDER IN THERE !

 

don't need anymore.

its a perfect 2700fps 100gr round for roe.

don't need a barrel burning 4000fps crackerjack for that purpose, just makes more mess of the carcase and wastes powder

 

 

But I agree there are some intact light use Parkys to be had which are real bargains, especially in less popular calibres like .270.

 

I picked up a .270 with pecar scope for £150

once I sold the scope and the parker hale mounts I had been paid £30 to take it!!

[Gimlet]

I picked up a .270 with pecar scope for £150

once I sold the scope and the parker hale mounts I had been paid £30 to take it!!

 

You should get a job as a salesman with SGC. You'd fit in just fine.

[al4x]

don't need anymore.

its a perfect 2700fps 100gr round for roe.

don't need a barrel burning 4000fps crackerjack for that purpose, just makes more mess of the carcase and wastes powder

 

 

 

unless you want to be legal which at 1600odd ftlbs that isn't on the English side of the Border. Of course you probably got the velocity slightly incorrect.

[Bewsher500]

unless you want to be legal which at 1600odd ftlbs that isn't on the English side of the Border. Of course you probably got the velocity slightly incorrect.

 

 

luckily I live on the right side of the border and I only took the velocity from a load program.

Not that fussed about detailed MV's

within 200fps does me just fine.

 

No Roe needs 1700ftlbs IMO unless you are shooting them out at 400 yds

 

I have a hotter 100gr for the reds as well

Edited May 15, 2012 by Bewsher500

[matone]

cheap parker hale and a reasonable second hand S&B 8x56

 

lots around.

My PH 243 cost me about £90

slapped a £500 scope on it and it does what you want from it with 100gn Interlocks for deer and 90 Bergers for fox

 

Most underated/undervalued rifles out there! Owned an M81 classic .243 for 25yrs & it was as accurate the day I

sold it as it was new (very).Handled 70-100gr with good accuracy.

[kent]

luckily I live on the right side of the border and I only took the velocity from a load program.

Not that fussed about detailed MV's

within 200fps does me just fine.

 

No Roe needs 1700ftlbs IMO unless you are shooting them out at 400 yds

 

I have a hotter 100gr for the reds as well

 

 

Actually the start load for a 100grn .243" is getting on for 40 grns using N160. You are risking the wrong type of chamber detonation using an overly light load which could turn out very baddly for you /bystanders and the gun one day. I doubt the velocity calcs are correct and Al4x is correct it most likely aint legal.

[M ROBSON]

unless you want to be legal which at 1600odd ftlbs that isn't on the English side of the Border. Of course you probably got the velocity slightly incorrect.

 

 

But we all know that Scotland has much more sense when making laws!

 

 

 

Look out for a new or second hand CZ to fit your budget.

Edited June 9, 2012 by M ROBSON

[Gerry31]

I have a PH in 243 I've had ot for 10 years I've shot every deer species in UK with it I keep toying with a new gun but can't bare to part with it it shoots half inch groups with my 105 grain home loads. I had trouble with the feeding a couple of years back and took it to clarks in derby who sorted it for 30 quid

[Gimlet]

But we all know that Scotland has much more sense when making laws!

 

 

 

Look out for a new or second hand CZ to fit your budget.

 

 

Scotland does have it right when it comes to species/calibre/ME IMHO. Don't know about the rest of your deer law though. Is everything in Scotland that complicated.

Edited June 12, 2012 by Gimlet

[BunnyDoom]

For that budget a .243 CZ I reckon

[12borejimbo]

243/25-06/6.5x55

I have a 6.5x55 myself and as other have said it will shoot 85g-160 grain bullets, so will handle both species. My best mate who is a keeper uses a 308 for everything. Dead is dead when it comes to foxes. I would buy an ok rifle and put a Schmidt and Bender 8x56 on the top (what I have on my 6.5), rifle for £200 and scope for £400. Job done, then save for a moderator (if you want/need one). Will do you just fine.

[Riz]

+1 on the CZ. The CZ550 is good enough for *********** to take on safari in Africa... albeit in a bigger cal...

+1 on the .308 being fine for everything. I have a mate who runs an estate in Ireland uses his .308 on deer and fox. I have a variation for a .243 for deer, but already have a target/stalking .308 and as my FEO pointed out, I could likely use the .308 for anything. There are more loads available for the .308 than anything else out there. Sure a 6.5x55 will outshoot it at medium ranges and a .243 is faster and flatter shooting at short and medium ranges, but the downrange energy still held by the .308 at longer ranges and wide choice of relatively easy to obtain and cheap ammo and brass makes it a top workhorse choice. (imho, and according to my ballistics calculator)

[kent]

The OP said .243" i dont think calibre is in question. I have owned and shot bigger guns than the .243 in the field and competitively sucsessfully but the fact remains i cannot shoot a 140grn bullet as well from improvised stances and off hand as i can a 100 grn one. Its a fact that took me years to come to terms with but a well placed 6mm bullet will kill any UK deer and a badly placed 140grn one might not. This simple fact is well known to the military also and was one of many reasons the 5.56mm (.223 rem eq) was adopted over the previous .30 cals.

[tigger]

A second hand tikka t3 would be my choice or a new howa 1500 brilliant guns for around £600 I've got one of each in 6.5x55 se and not got a bad word to say about them but the tikka is the better rifle......

Edited October 8, 2012 by tigger

[Riz]

To Kent, good point.

I'm quite new to stalking and more of a prone target type shooter.

Thinking about it, I've only ever really shot heavy .308 loads off a rest or bipod in most scenarios as I haven't done any highand stalking.

I'll be keeping my .243 slot in that case and carry on looking for a nice cheap .243 too.

My vote goes to a new CZ or secondhand Parker Hale or at a stretch Steyr.

Sako's are lovely but a bit of the price range for the one I like even secondhand, Sako 85 laminate.

+1 on Tikka's too. I've shot the Sako 85 and Tikka. Tikka T3 is very similar, from the same stable so to speak, 3 lug bolt.

Another thought would be the Remy 700. Good accuracy, build quality not on a par with european guns in my opinion but the price reflects that on the older ones.