cocker3 Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) yds, Your point about eye flicker from neck up shots is true for the neck I have on occasion seen this but can be sorted very quickly and the beast is no longer of danger to me once it is on the ground. I can't remember seeing this on a head shot. John, ? I would probably be at my Beast buy the time yours hit the ground. When I shoot a Deer at 80 yards with a neck or head shot it drops where it was and it takes me very little time to get to it as I don't have to wait any length of time to let it bleed out in piece. If there is eye flicker then it is normally nerves as it can’t be feeling pain due to its atlas joint being shattered. So I don't Regards, Jimmy well i have to disagree with you there buddy a good friend of mine shot a roe buck a few years back (neck shot)and walked in to it and got eye flicker so he went to grab the back legs to pull it to a piece of level ground to deal with it an and as he grabbed for the back legs it kicked out and struck him across one eye (removing the eye and opening up a 6 inch gash on his cheek needing 39 stitches .a 1 mile walk holding his face together and the loss of his left eye .and that was just nerves that did this to him so i am sorry but if there is eye flicker there is still a very real danger to you !!!!! i dont want to pick a fight just pointing this out and john a great video again buddy Edited June 1, 2012 by cocker3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I have found this whole dicussion quite enthralling and informative. What I have disliked intensely is the signature image of YDS, which shows a fox with a gaping chest wound and the speech bubble. To me it shows a degree of callousness which is out of place. We talk about respect for game, and for sure we know that foxes are vermin and they can and do make a real mess of the chickens they slaughter, but I do not think the demise of a sentient mammal should be the object of peurile "humour". I feel the same about giddy laughter on youtube when deer are shot. The humane kill is what the good hunter aspires to. Respect for the quarry should be a given. IMHO. I am sick of seeing the RIP Nibbles picture on every post by YDS. How can it instil hunting ethics in the reader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 well i have to disagree with you there buddy a good friend of mine shot a roe buck a few years back (neck shot)and walked in to it and got eye flicker so he went to grab the back legs to pull it to a piece of level ground to deal with it an and as he grabbed for the back legs it kicked out and struck him across one eye (removing the eye and opening up a 6 inch gash on his cheek needing 39 stitches .a 1 mile walk holding his face together and the loss of his left eye .and that was just nerves that did this to him so i am sorry but if there is eye flicker there is still a very real danger to you !!!!! i dont want to pick a fight just pointing this out and john a great video again buddy dead on it feet and no need for a follow up shot He obviously did not hit it in the right place. Sorry to hear that about your friend. I have found this whole dicussion quite enthralling and informative. What I have disliked intensely is the signature image of YDS, which shows a fox with a gaping chest wound and the speech bubble. To me it shows a degree of callousness which is out of place. We talk about respect for game, and for sure we know that foxes are vermin and they can and do make a real mess of the chickens they slaughter, but I do not think the demise of a sentient mammal should be the object of peurile "humour". I feel the same about giddy laughter on youtube when deer are shot. The humane kill is what the good hunter aspires to. Respect for the quarry should be a given. IMHO. I am sick of seeing the RIP Nibbles picture on every post by YDS. How can it instil hunting ethics in the reader? Yep, I have to agree with you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted May 31, 2012 Author Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I have found this whole dicussion quite enthralling and informative. What I have disliked intensely is the signature image of YDS, which shows a fox with a gaping chest wound and the speech bubble. To me it shows a degree of callousness which is out of place. We talk about respect for game, and for sure we know that foxes are vermin and they can and do make a real mess of the chickens they slaughter, but I do not think the demise of a sentient mammal should be the object of peurile "humour". I feel the same about giddy laughter on youtube when deer are shot. The humane kill is what the good hunter aspires to. Respect for the quarry should be a given. IMHO. I am sick of seeing the RIP Nibbles picture on every post by YDS. How can it instil hunting ethics in the reader? well i agree it is misleading, i found out it wasn't nibbles he is still out there. and p.s i have never tried to keep my hatred and lack of respect for foxes a secret. If i could kill the last 2 in yorkshire i'd shoot them both.............TWICE just to be sure. been ruthless with foxes is why i have so much land in the area, just picked up today another 600 acres adjoining some land i already shoot. the first thing that was said is make sure you kill every fox please, we don't want them on the shoot. Having any sentiments for them in this area doesnt win you any points with land owners, keepers and shoot captains. If they thought you could just shoot a leg of it and it might die a week later that would be fine with them. But I live in a big game shooting area. Edited May 31, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 Feel what you like about foxes, but I am sick of the picture and the sick joke. Why do you feel the need to inflict it on the reader with every post? It is past its sell by date. Others manage without a picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Does the fox picture really offend that much? I'll put my neck on the block here - it actually made me chuckle a little! I see it as light hearted humour which shouldn't been taken too seriously. Yes it has a gaping wound, but it's clearly a picture of a humane shot right? It's good to respect your quarry, but how many of us respect the fox enough to let it walk away when a shot is on? You won't get many land owner friends like that I can tell you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I'm not sure that 'hatred and lack of respect' are words a firearm user should post on a public forum!! Surely, one of our main defences are the respect for the things we shoot. By all means dislike things, but shouting it maybe isn't the smartest thing to do. I'm sure you'd never express such vitriolic hatred of a species to the FEO! I must confess, I don't like the foxy photo either. I think it is exceptionally disrespectful and makes us look poor in the eyes of others. If you treat it as 'humour', it is sullied by the fox having a huge hole in it. A dead fox is one thing, but it screams 'physco' to me!! A grown man, dressing up a fox and posing for a picture with it - not really a character trait to shout about!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure that 'hatred and lack of respect' are words a firearm user should post on a public forum!! Surely, one of our main defences are the respect for the things we shoot. By all means dislike things, but shouting it maybe isn't the smartest thing to do. I'm sure you'd never express such vitriolic hatred of a species to the FEO! I must confess, I don't like the foxy photo either. I think it is exceptionally disrespectful and makes us look poor in the eyes of others. If you treat it as 'humour', it is sullied by the fox having a huge hole in it. A dead fox is one thing, but it screams 'physco' to me!! A grown man, dressing up a fox and posing for a picture with it - not really a character trait to shout about!!!! after holding an fac for 28 years and been a keeper as long why should the feo expect anything else but a hatered for foxes and a lust to kill every fox I come accross. I have been in the trade a long time now and seen the fox destroy everything i have worked hard to produce. if you think sleepless hours away from my family waiting for a systematic killer to come back to a pen of birds, who will leave the free meals (rabbits ect) left for him and still he walks past them to get to the poults will make me respect such a creature. you are the mad one. Why when you read my posts do you have to even see the photo? I know its there myself but no longer look at it. And how this has gone from an unusual reaction to a lung shot and an educational debate about othershots to as OFF TOPIC as a signature, I don't know. I have 5 rifles all with a fox condition attached the police know I want to kill them whatever gun i'm carrying. Please stay on topic. Edited June 1, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Yes it has a gaping wound, but it's clearly a picture of a humane shot right? It's good to respect your quarry, but how many of us respect the fox enough to let it walk away when a shot is on? You won't get many land owner friends like that I can tell you! too right, many are happy just to get some lead into them on a game day as they know they won't survive. It all comes down to what you've seen them do, killing all your poultry or game birds in a pen isn't their best advert. Once you go onto centerfire rifles pretty much any part of a fox visible and its job done. I shot one last week with just part of its back visible over a log, some might have left it but when you have a landowner loosing more chickens every day you just shoot them all on sight. This thread is turning into a load of old bullocks really, its a lung shot perfectly acceptable. No one can say the shot is unsafe without being there so much comes into that decision that you can't see on film. The simple thing is it showed what a deer can do on adrenalin and why a lot of people take a dog. I had a fox jump up and run off the other day, didn't get a second shot on it as I was onto the next one. Left it while we cleared some more up and took the dog to the shot site and she picked it 30 yards away. That ran with a .243 hole inside its front leg through the edge of the chest cavity raked the side of it and back inside its rear leg and out of its backside. Thats pure adrenalin nothing else as the trauma was huge took those 30 yards to bleed out and drop dead. The fact is that is being missed or avoided is when you screw up a head or neck shot on a deer its highly mobile and you won't find it. This shot is taken because get it a little wrong and you will find the deer, though this shot there was nothing wrong with the positioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greymaster Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Why when you read my posts do you have to even see the photo? I know its there myself but no longer look at it. It seems to have served your purpose, and as you are indifferent to it why not give us a break from it. Don't some adverts get on your nerves on TV? Some forums allow for the signature to be seen only on the first post not subsequent. As for staying on topic, the fox pic detracts from the discussion not adds to it. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 YRDS I'm not saying you can't hate foxes!! Nor that you can be driven with a wonder lust to slaughter eachowns every one the planet. I am merely saying some things don't need sharing with the rest of the world!! I hate plenty of things in life - but wouldn't share them with people who can then use it against me!!! I shoot foxes, same as many. On the farm we shoot them if taking the lambs etc. However, I would never shoot one on a driven shoot - even if allowed. If I am paying, I expect the gamekeeper to control them, not me! To get back on track, as you rightfully comment things have got derailed. Lung shots. To me, they are not ideal and should be avoided. Why? For me, we want heart, or heart/lung combo to kill our quarry as quickly as possible. Any mammal (including people) when shot through the lung(s) rarely dies from blood loss - a key actor in reducing blood pressure leading to unconsciousness etc - but usually dies from asphyxiation. Effectively, the victim suffocates as their lung deflates. This is NOT painless and IS distressing for mammals. A punctured lung is a relatively common injury following severe trauma injuries with people, but often they will survive with medical treatment - which means they can live for many minutes, as we all know how long it takes to see a doctor, let alone an ambulance!! With the exception of primates and 'us', it is hard to read facial expressions on animals, so the looking around could well be an expression or agony, or could be an expression of 'what the ***** was that'. I am NOT saying the animal won't die - clearly they do. But, don't think it won't hurt, or that there is this euphoric passage of time where the animal drifts off to sleep by blood pressure loss alone. Often, the blood loss is secondary to the cause of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I am of the opinion that we are our own worst enemy's by posting pictures of dead game and vermin on this forum . I have always been against it and always will . It was worse a little while back and some very graphic pictures were posted of dead animals ,with the big brave white hunter posing with the kill .Its not necessary .A number of members on here including myself were opposed to it and the graphic pictures were banned . Iam sure that we can get our point across on the forum with out the pictures of our kill . Harnser . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I am of the opinion that we are our own worst enemy's by posting pictures of dead game and vermin on this forum . I have always been against it and always will . It was worse a little while back and some very graphic pictures were posted of dead animals ,with the big brave white hunter posing with the kill .Its not necessary .A number of members on here including myself were opposed to it and the graphic pictures were banned . Iam sure that we can get our point across on the forum with out the pictures of our kill . Harnser . So we have not got the right on an open forum to show something that is legal and unanomonous, everyone knows where i am, i dont hide behind an avatar. The subject was legally killed by legal methods in a humane mannor. As was the subject in my signature. As it happens by a good friend not by me. And its not me in the photo so its NOT a great white hunter photo, its a bit of fun amongts me and my friends. Just because you find the joke sick should it be banned? I never go on the jokes section (EVER) but bet i could easily be offended on there. Its a joke. and its nothing to do with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 Well, I tried to get the thread back on track! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) You seem to be missing the point . Its because it is an open forum that in my opinion we shouldn't be showing dead game that we have shot . Please dont mistake me for an anti ,but unfortunately there are a lot of antis out there and some of the content of this forum is ammunition for them . Please try and remember us shooters are in the vast minority in this country and the anti shooting brigade is very powerful . It has become apparent to me that over the last few years that there is a hidden agenda to stop or make it very difficult for individuals to obtain a grant for a firearms certificate . Just look at some of the conditions that the police are putting on new applicants that we read about on this forum . posting pictures of dead game do not help our position as shooters and sportsmen . Incidently I have been doing this for 50 years . Harnser . Edited June 1, 2012 by Harnser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) You seem to be missing the point . Its because it is an open forum that in my opinion we shouldn't be showing dead game that we have shot . Please dont mistake me for an anti ,but unfortunately there are a lot of antis out there and some of the content of this forum is ammunition for them . Please try and remember us shooters are in the vast minority in this country and the anti shooting brigade is very powerful . It has become apparent to me that over the last few years that there is a hidden agenda to stop or make it very difficult for individuals to obtain a grant for a firearms certificate . Just look at some of the conditions that the police are putting on new applicants that we read about on this forum . posting pictures of dead game do not help our position as shooters and sportsmen . Harnser . well i disagree (and this thread is not the place) I am bussier then ever mentoring new applicants for centre fires, have another out tonight. I even have police forces contacting me to see if i can take any more on! The deer population is growing out of control with them showing up in city supermarket car parks now. Dead animal photos will not inspire an anti to be more anti like hiding will not make them forget about us hunting animals. They won't or don't want to see a reasoned argument. They are anti's and dont like to think we should kill anything especially for "sport" Sport or not deer and fox do need controling and if not by us who will pay for trained appointed employees to do it. But as I have said this thread is not the place. Be happy my friend and hide away, I will be proud of what i do and work along with the bodies that be to bring shooting into the reach of many. BE PROUD. ps i am very sorry the mods feel the need to remove "nibbles" It was not me, it was forced upon me. Be proud! Edited June 1, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRamsay Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 You seem to be missing the point . Its because it is an open forum that in my opinion we shouldn't be showing dead game that we have shot . Please dont mistake me for an anti ,but unfortunately there are a lot of antis out there and some of the content of this forum is ammunition for them . Please try and remember us shooters are in the vast minority in this country and the anti shooting brigade is very powerful . It has become apparent to me that over the last few years that there is a hidden agenda to stop or make it very difficult for individuals to obtain a grant for a firearms certificate . Just look at some of the conditions that the police are putting on new applicants that we read about on this forum . posting pictures of dead game do not help our position as shooters and sportsmen . Harnser . I Agree With What Your Saying, But Posting Pictures Of Dead Game And Pictures Of Various Dead Things With There Guts Strewn All Over The Place Are 2 Different Things, Dont You Think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 I Agree With What Your Saying, But Posting Pictures Of Dead Game And Pictures Of Various Dead Things With There Guts Strewn All Over The Place Are 2 Different Things, Dont You Think? Nail on head! - a picture of a buck/deer - or a line of pigeons/game is ok in my opinion (a lot of people on here need to back up some of the bull the spout and a picture sometimes proves or disproves this ) I will say the pictures of headshot foxes/rabbits with eyes bulging out of the head is not a good idea in my opinion. Nothing to do with Anti's - I don't really care about them as nothing we do will be agreeable to them - I simply don't want to be sitting on my laptop with my son in the room for him to come up and ask why wile-e-coyote's head is in pieces and blood everywhere with a guy holding him. :blink: it's pretty hard to explain to a 3 or 4 year old - and remember there is (to my knowledge) no age limit to this forum - members could be 12 (and I myself sometimes forget this with my language ) Regards, Gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 YRDS Lung shots. To me, they are not ideal and should be avoided. Why? For me, we want heart, or heart/lung combo to kill our quarry as quickly as possible. Any mammal (including people) when shot through the lung(s) rarely dies from blood loss - a key actor in reducing blood pressure leading to unconsciousness etc - but usually dies from asphyxiation. Effectively, the victim suffocates as their lung deflates. This is NOT painless and IS distressing for mammals. A punctured lung is a relatively common injury following severe trauma injuries with people, but often they will survive with medical treatment - which means they can live for many minutes, as we all know how long it takes to see a doctor, let alone an ambulance!! With the exception of primates and 'us', it is hard to read facial expressions on animals, so the looking around could well be an expression or agony, or could be an expression of 'what the ***** was that'. I am NOT saying the animal won't die - clearly they do. But, don't think it won't hurt, or that there is this euphoric passage of time where the animal drifts off to sleep by blood pressure loss alone. Often, the blood loss is secondary to the cause of death. back on track now. Nobody i know "lung" shoots but mearly, "boiler house" or "engine room" shoots. This hopefully hits the heart and lungs as well as all the vital veins in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 back on track now. Nobody i know "lung" shoots but mearly, "boiler house" or "engine room" shoots. This hopefully hits the heart and lungs as well as all the vital veins in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mr Pieman Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 So, possibly not the best thread title of 'Incredible Lung Shot' then, eh?!?! Although you spelt 'incredible' incorrectly :rolleyes: :blink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gixer1 Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 So, possibly not the best thread title of 'Incredible Lung Shot' then, eh?!?! Although you spelt 'incredible' incorrectly :rolleyes: :blink: Think you're picking at minor details there - it was an incredible lung shot in the fact that it stayed upright so long with a .308 pair of holes in it! the "best practice" is infact called a heart/lung shot isn't it? regards, gixer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) So, possibly not the best thread title of 'Incredible Lung Shot' then, eh?!?! Although you spelt 'incredible' incorrectly :rolleyes: :blink: :blink: :look: It was never meant to be about the placement of the shot, OR THE SPELLING. It was amazing it went so far unaware of the hole in its lungs and rib cage. Have i spelt that ok? Edited June 1, 2012 by yds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andrewluke Posted June 1, 2012 Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 to me the "nibbles" photo tells me that you dont respect what you shoot!, just my opinion, andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yds Posted June 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 1, 2012 to me the "nibbles" photo tells me that you dont respect what you shoot!, just my opinion, andrew Please not again, read the thread in full. I have NO respect for foxes and would kill them with a dessert spoon if i got close enough. Now back to the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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