Modified LED lamping torches.

[digit]

Thanks Dave, for taking the time to explain that

[ahorton]

Ah so you really are interested in IR light, not just red light. This is where my experience ends. I can really only talk with authority on wavelengths up to about 650nm.

 

Red LEDs

 

For example this light:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/300584297308?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=361450420785&clk_rvr_id=361475847875#ht_1137wt_1270

 

which has been mentioned a few times. This one claims 200 lumens while some others claim up to 300 lumens. If we assume that it is a genuine Cree XR-E (probably actually an XR-C but that doesn't matter much) then it is probably either 620nm or 630nm. In which case it can at best have a flux bin of Q2 or P4 respectively. Long story short, at 600mA this can give a maximum of 120-140 lumens. However, I doubt that they paid the extra for the rare but superior high-binned LEDs. The more likely situation is that they bought the cheapest ones which will give around 80-100 lumens at 600mA. These will still appear pretty bright! With a change in the circuit you can easily drive them at 700mA and maybe even 1050mA if you are careful with the thermal path. I do some funky things with copper mounts that will allow these do be pushed up to about 1400mA. At this level you'll be able to get up to and over the stated '200 lumens'.

 

 

 

 

IR LEDs

 

Out of my comfort zone now but I'll try to help. The couple of links posted look like they'll work with the kit.

 

I'm trying to find some info about the LED itself. Does anyone know it's manufacturer and part number? These details will let me assess it a bit better. Of course the best test would just be for someone to buy one and try it out.

 

One thing to look out for is that you buy something with a single emitter.

Look at this one:

http://www.solarforce.hk/index.php?controller=products&action=view&id=21

or this one:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/280845340730?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649&clk_rvr_id=361478327853#ht_3232wt_1270

 

which appears to have three or four little squares (or 'dice') inside it. These work fine with reflectors and flood beams, but terrible for long-range beams. These ones may be tempting since they'll promise higher output and higher power ratings. Sadly you will get multiple beams going off in different directions. Much better to get a single-emitter LED. It will be brighter where you want it.

 

 

LED ENGIN make an IR LED with an excellent radiation pattern for our purposes. Sadly it only peaks at 850nm and I understand that you'd prefer around 950nm. Make sure you find one with a part number that has a '1' in the third position. EG: LZ1-00R400 and not LZ4-00R400 etc. This will make sure you only have one emitter.

 

 

... I haven't finished on the topic yet but I'll post this now and maybe add more later.

 

Feel free to keep posting links to products or your questions and I'll try to respond.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ahorton

[Dave-G]

Bless your little cotton socks ash, we want red ones + IR ones.

 

I think I dumped my solarforce one because it had no indication of power rating or NM so I just figured it must be a **** one lol It had three led's - one above two others. The 5W 940 you link to appears to have four in a square shape.

 

940nm is not essential for most od us - just that it may be used for more covert but shorter ranges. I would like to find a very decent one about 900nm though.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Dave-G

[ahorton]

... another thought is that some forms of glass block certain light frequencies (particularly low frequencies like IR). So you may find that my lens (or any other) acts like an opaque wall to a certain IR emitter. The only way to know for sure is to do some experimenting.

 

I'm not too worried about this since the emitters you're looking at usually live behind glass lenses. Just thought I should mention the possibility since I've never actually tried it myself.

[Dave-G]

... another thought is that some forms of glass block certain light frequencies (particularly low frequencies like IR). So you may find that my lens (or any other) acts like an opaque wall to a certain IR emitter. The only way to know for sure is to do some experimenting.

 

I'm not too worried about this since the emitters you're looking at usually live behind glass lenses. Just thought I should mention the possibility since I've never actually tried it myself.

 

Thank you Ash, i have just scrutinised the red led. It is a single emitter slightly off centre with one of it's edges almost at the centreline. That explains why the projected beam is slightly off centre then.

[ahorton]

Thank you Ash, i have just scrutinised the red led. It is a single emitter slightly off centre with one of it's edges almost at the centreline. That explains why the projected beam is slightly off centre then.

 

That can be fixed by removing the LED and its little board, then repositioning it with new thermal glue. It won't affect the beam strength more than about 5% and may not be worth the trouble.

[Dave-G]

That can be fixed by removing the LED and its little board, then repositioning it with new thermal glue. It won't affect the beam strength more than about 5% and may not be worth the trouble.

 

Thanks for that - Ill leave it as it's still possible to get part of the beam onto the quarry.

 

Here's pic of the singe emiter 850nm;

 

It looks very well encased in its base, so do we just sort of bung some glue in to partly fill up the pill as it were?

Edited July 4, 2012 by Dave-G

[ahorton]

I'm not familiar with that LED but I'll do some research.

 

No need to add extra glue if it's not moving.

[Dave-G]

I'm not familiar with that LED but I'll do some research.

 

No need to add extra glue if it's not moving.

 

That tip about a single emmiter has been a massive help to us all thanks.

 

Most readers will not be aware of it but Ash is very much into lighting in a major business way. We have been asked to maintain a low advertising profile so it's all being kept minimal.

 

EDIT:

A point worth considering while looking into this Ash: Most of us are ham fisted men of the countryside rather than dainty people who might be able to fiddle with tiny things. Few of us would want to use a soldering iron so it's really a case of finding the best drop-ins we can get hold of.

Edited July 4, 2012 by Dave-G

[ahorton]

Looking a bit closer at that picture, I noticed something very bad!

 

It looks to me that the circuit board is a standard Cree XR-E one. This is why it says 'Cree'.

 

However, the LED is not one I recognise. I suspect it's not a Cree at all.

 

The LED they've used doesn't match the circuit board at all. See how the LED is only glued down in the middle. Normally it would be soldered and cover all the SMD solder pads. Instead it's only soldered on the contacts for the leads/wires.

 

This is absolutely terrible for thermal conductivity.

 

Sure it will run, but I think you could increase the efficiency by 20% just by a proper mounting.

 

It also makes it harder to ID the original LED but I'll keep working.

Edited July 4, 2012 by ahorton

[ahorton]

Sorry, I have been getting a bit carried away.

 

I was working to identify the LEDs you're using and find alternatives that will perform better. Of course this was not what you all really wanted or needed.

 

The one you pictured above is the right sort of thing for your purposes. For price and ease-of-use it's probably pretty good for you.

 

As mentioned above, the most important thing for you guys to watch out for is the single-emitter.

 

If (later on) you guys decide that you want to take it up to the next level, then just let me know and I can probably help with either advice or finished products. I think I can make dropins with at least double, maybe triple the sort of output you're getting with that one. Naturally, the cost would be much higher.

 

 

As a side note: I'm not really a big business. Just a guy who likes to make and modify lights in his spare time. It just happens quite frequently that someone (like you guys) asks me to sell what I've made.

[baldy]

Dave what distance are you looking to get out to with 900 nm

[sitsinhedges]

Looking a bit closer at that picture, I noticed something very bad!

 

It looks to me that the circuit board is a standard Cree XR-E one. This is why it says 'Cree'.

 

However, the LED is not one I recognise. I suspect it's not a Cree at all.

 

The LED they've used doesn't match the circuit board at all. See how the LED is only glued down in the middle. Normally it would be soldered and cover all the SMD solder pads. Instead it's only soldered on the contacts for the leads/wires.

 

This is absolutely terrible for thermal conductivity.

 

Sure it will run, but I think you could increase the efficiency by 20% just by a proper mounting.

 

It also makes it harder to ID the original LED but I'll keep working.

 

I have bought one of those IR LED emitters, it's good out to maybe 50metres max with a DX lense.

 

I would be interested in what you could offer as an alternative and what the cost would be?

[Dave-G]

Ash...

 

I have looked harder at that 850nm LED - it appears to be sited over a saucer shaped reflector.

I must have found an alternative Ahorton lighting specialist then lol, sorry.

 

Baldy...

More than I could have expected from a 940nm mate but not expecting as much as an 850. Horses for courses, I feel higher nm's would be ok for air rifle use which might be too bright if it were more visible.

 

Sits in hedges...

That's too vague - Details please - which camera type, which value nm IR and did you use a blackout?

Edited July 4, 2012 by Dave-G

[sitsinhedges]

Sits in hedges...

That's too vague - Details please - which camera type, which value nm IR and did you use a blackout?

 

This board lense

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230785913225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

With this bulb

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270927139810?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

Blacked out reflector and DX aspheric lense

[HW682]

... another thought is that some forms of glass block certain light frequencies (particularly low frequencies like IR). So you may find that my lens (or any other) acts like an opaque wall to a certain IR emitter. The only way to know for sure is to do some experimenting. I'm not too worried about this since the emitters you're looking at usually live behind glass lenses. Just thought I should mention the possibility since I've never actually tried it myself.

 

If you know what the lens is made of it is easy to look up a transmission curve.

Most optical quality glass should be ok for NIR (near infra-red). For example Schott BK7 will be over 99% internal transmission to 2um (2000nm) or so.

HTH

 

Edit: another thought...the focal length will be slightly different at NIR than visible. Not sure how much and whether it is enough to make a difference off top of my head. (It will vary a bit with the lens material). Just be aware that there *might* be an improvement to be made by tweaking the distance of lens to LED for IR.

 

Just food for thought and as you said, maybe try a bit of experimenting.

Edited July 4, 2012 by HW682

[bicykillgaz]

Finally received some of my dx kit unfortunately only one reflector so I'm gonna do my green led first it's an ultrafire r2 allegedly 300lumen, it's already a great little torch so looking forward to seeing what difference the mods will make. If anyone wants a green led get THIS it's same as what's in mine and I rate it.

[Dave-G]

This board lense

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230785913225?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

With this bulb

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/270927139810?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

 

Blacked out reflector and DX aspheric lense

 

OK cheers.

 

That £14 camera is at the low end of low light camera's. It only has a 1/3" super had ccd sensor that will only view areas brighter than 0.1 lux - which is not very dark (http://www.2mcctv.com/blog/2011_09_15-cctv-lux-light-ratings/)

 

EDIT: sorry I had to go out on a call mid post.

 

Were you to use it with a 1/2" ccd sensor camera with say an illumination ability to see above 0.0001 for example the IR would have a better range.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Dave-G

[Dave-G]

Apparently an attempt to make delivery occurred this morning at 10.50.

 

I have an external mailbox and was in the back garden, it's a very small semi I should add. ***** hasn't even left a contact us card so I have no idea which firm couldn't be arsid to knock a bit louder or do the courtesy of proving he's been to the house.

[sitsinhedges]

OK cheers.

 

That £14 camera is at the low end of low light camera's. It only has a 1/3" super had ccd sensor that will only view areas brighter than 0.1 lux - which is not very dark (http://www.2mcctv.com/blog/2011_09_15-cctv-lux-light-ratings/)

 

EDIT: sorry I had to go out on a call mid post.

 

Were you to use it with a 1/2" ccd sensor camera with say an illumination ability to see above 0.0001 for example the IR would have a better range.

 

You wont find a board camera that goes that low without a vastly reduced shutter speed, and you'll struggle to find a 1/2" board camera too.

 

Other than that it's the Watecs, I have one on its way

[Dave-G]

Sounds like you're finally on the way then SIH.

 

Well after much very frustrating ado, the 'attempted delivery' bit is annoying speak for 'it's now with Parcel Force' who need to charge me £102.81 before they actually attempt to deliver.

[ahorton]

Sounds like you're finally on the way then SIH.

 

Well after much very frustrating ado, the 'attempted delivery' bit is annoying speak for 'it's now with Parcel Force' who need to charge me £102.81 before they actually attempt to deliver.

 

 

Is that an import tax or a delivery fee?

 

I'd be very annoyed if it is a delivery fee because I paid for delivery all the way.

 

 

Let me know if I need to complain from my end.

[Dave-G]

Is that an import tax or a delivery fee?

 

I'd be very annoyed if it is a delivery fee because I paid for delivery all the way.

 

 

Let me know if I need to complain from my end.

 

Nothing to worry about Ash, its import duty and I itemised it in the interests of transparency and justifying the total costs incurred in the this group buy after the items have been posted mate. All is good this end, just a bit of patience needed about how long things take once they're landed here.

 

I'll be posting it all up to see what I have or have not made.

[Dave-G]

Still nothing received from Jamiedenny despite pm,'s, I'm not doing any more chasing. Looks I have a spare set, if someone else's payment gets to me before his then that's the way it is.

 

I've again given up trying to find how to temporily show my email addy - so here it is again if someone wants to order the spare one - with an paypal payment. It's the only option I will allow from here on:

********************************

[Dave-G]

Sorry lads, I knew I would struggle keeping up with who don't include their member name with their order;

 

Sorted thanks.

Edited July 5, 2012 by Dave-G