swiss.tony Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) went pigeon shooting other day with one of mates and he said he was getting a dispatch pistol for red deer i sat there a listening and he said he could get up too a 9mm as condition on his FAC has any one else got anything like that cause if they have im getting 1 . I could not argue cause i did not have a clue about it iv looked in search section but found nothing about this and iv never sin it bought up on here .or is it pork pies lol cheers swiss Edited June 28, 2012 by swiss.tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 There's been a thread running on this very thing for the last week or so, search for section 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 you know i cant think of a genuine good reason for a 9mm pistol for dispatch from the point of view of any real need on site. I know it can be argued but IMO its daft and mearly an excuse to own a pistol legally. Besides who wants to pay a big old ammount of wedge for something that can only be used for this purpose playing Devils advocate how about removing the FAC completely from any who apply for one without a stonking great reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sako751sg Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You can get a pistol for humane dispatch but nay sure what calibres are allowed.If i remember rightly someone challenged a refusal for being allowed one,it went to court and it found in favour of him.Maybe someone can provide a link or maybe im speaking keech and it never really happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You can get a 9mm pistol for HD as long as you can show good reason. Look on The Stalking Directory, there are loads of threads on the subject. The burden of proof regarding 'need' is firmly on you. You may find it easier to convince them if you can prove past instances where you have needed one or are a vet or Deer Warden on the call out list for RTAs etc. You will also have to satisfy much more stringent security requirements. Some forces are more 'open' to the idea than others, whilst some who will allow it will restrict you to 2 shots, others will allow unrestricted. Be very careful though... If the Police feel you are asking for one just becausee you want one and that your 'good reason' has been made up so as to get it through, you could end up in very deep poo like that chap over in Lancashire a couple of years ago. He ended up losing everything and gaining a criminal record in the process!!! A handgun is far more suited to humane dispach than any other firearm... Particularly if moderated, it is quieter, safer** & far more discreate than a rifle or shotgun especially in residential areas. I have a couple of friends on the call out registers of differing forces and both have had to deal with injured beasts in gardens, built up areas, with an audience etc... **splashback is an issue with a rifle.. you don't know what's under the deer when you shoot it. Shotguns are noisy and messy and not very discrete... using a knive is quite often very dangerous and not particularly 'public friendly.' I considered asking for one after I nearly lost an eye last year.. Was pushing though dense canopy with my rifle after a runner and a branch hit me in the eye... I spent the day in A&E rather than the day stalking (managed to recover it with one working eye though ) that was a scary experience and one which wouldn't have happened if I'd had a handgun with me. However, I decided against it at this point. I'm trying to get on the call out list for my police area, if that happens I may have a conversation about it with my FEO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 simply it can be done if you have enough reason but you then become far more of a police focus and security is far more of an issue. To my mind its pointless on an I want basis and simply not worth the agro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 simply it can be done if you have enough reason but you then become far more of a police focus and security is far more of an issue. To my mind its pointless on an I want basis and simply not worth the agro. Yep.. that's the conclusion I came to, although it was more of a 'would like as it would be useful' basis rather than want... really don't want the extra hassle! BUT... if I get on the list, that may be a different situation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordieh Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 went pigeon shooting other day with one of mates and he said he was getting a dispatch pistol for red deer i sat there a listening and he said he could get up too a 9mm as condition on his FAC has any one else got anything like that cause if they have im getting 1 . I could not argue cause i did not have a clue about it iv looked in search section but found nothing about this and iv never sin it bought up on here .or is it pork pies lol cheers swiss Hi swi ss Not really good reason is it " He's got one so i want one" some forces only allow 2 shot revolvers with 4 chambers welded up others allow semi automatics with 2 shot magazines others allow unrestricted semi autos i have a CZ85 9MM with a 2 shot magazine Geordie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 which wouldn't have happened if I'd had a handgun with me. I'm trying to work out why (considering you had a rifle with you), sorry if I'm being thick, which is entirely possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I'm trying to work out why (considering you had a rifle with you), sorry if I'm being thick, which is entirely possible No not thick.... was unusually low and dense forest canopy, couldn't sling the rifle or drag it behind so had to use it to push ahead of me, that obviously meant that one, often two hands, and my concentration was on the rifle leaving only one hand and the other half of my concentration to deal with flying branches... unbenownst to me, the forend of the branch had royaly wound up a branch I was pushing past and as it released it whipped back straight into my eye... searing pain and no vision in left eye... at all for 30 mins!!!! VERY, VERY scary, I honestly thought I was blind! If I had had an handgun, it would have been in my pack, a pocket, a holster etc.. leaving both hands and all my wits free to protect my eyes! Rifle would have been secured and left outside the dense stuff! For the record I always carry a pair of safety goggles now! Edited June 28, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 BUT... if I get on the list, that may be a different situation! you'd still be better off with a .410 in most situations. We used to have a rather antiquated bell gun type humane killer at home and worked well on most incidents but deer on the road I did hear it come off a kerb stone once which wasn't a good idea where we were Bear in mind the safe keeping if you think they get iffy if you have a rifle or shotgun stolen you need to see the full with a pistol. A knackerman here had his vehicle stolen while on a call with it in a locked container and he had serious issues about keeping his livelihood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 you'd still be better off with a .410 in most situations. We used to have a rather antiquated bell gun type humane killer at home and worked well on most incidents but deer on the road I did hear it come off a kerb stone once which wasn't a good idea where we were Bear in mind the safe keeping if you think they get iffy if you have a rifle or shotgun stolen you need to see the full with a pistol. A knackerman here had his vehicle stolen while on a call with it in a locked container and he had serious issues about keeping his livelihood. I hear you... and agree.. but a silenced pistol is far more discrete than a .410... hushpower maybe!? It is the spotlight side of things that put me off last time... really don't want to attract attention to myself! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You can get a 9mm pistol for HD as long as you can show good reason. Look on The Stalking Directory, there are loads of threads on the subject. The burden of proof regarding 'need' is firmly on you. You may find it easier to convince them if you can prove past instances where you have needed one or are a vet or Deer Warden on the call out list for RTAs etc. You will also have to satisfy much more stringent security requirements. Some forces are more 'open' to the idea than others, whilst some who will allow it will restrict you to 2 shots, others will allow unrestricted. Be very careful though... If the Police feel you are asking for one just becausee you want one and that your 'good reason' has been made up so as to get it through, you could end up in very deep poo like that chap over in Lancashire a couple of years ago. He ended up losing everything and gaining a criminal record in the process!!! A handgun is far more suited to humane dispach than any other firearm... Particularly if moderated, it is quieter, safer** & far more discreate than a rifle or shotgun especially in residential areas. I have a couple of friends on the call out registers of differing forces and both have had to deal with injured beasts in gardens, built up areas, with an audience etc... **splashback is an issue with a rifle.. you don't know what's under the deer when you shoot it. Shotguns are noisy and messy and not very discrete... using a knive is quite often very dangerous and not particularly 'public friendly.' I considered asking for one after I nearly lost an eye last year.. Was pushing though dense canopy with my rifle after a runner and a branch hit me in the eye... I spent the day in A&E rather than the day stalking (managed to recover it with one working eye though ) that was a scary experience and one which wouldn't have happened if I'd had a handgun with me. However, I decided against it at this point. I'm trying to get on the call out list for my police area, if that happens I may have a conversation about it with my FEO. I dont get the onlookers thing as it dont get done till they are all clear, end of no exeptions. A moderated converted Webley bolt action .410 to pistol format is used by many for descresion. Though for me its .22 lr, deer rifle or 12 bore- if a firearm at all. Call out is not something people should look for IMO. Its not fun, can be inconvienient (i did one while i was actually in the act of moving house) can be unpleasant and carries a legal risk if things did go bad. As for stalking with a rifle and a pistol on my hip for wounders the thought is abhorrent and potrays us in the wrong light Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I hear you... and agree.. but a silenced pistol is far more discrete than a .410... hushpower maybe!? It is the spotlight side of things that put me off last time... really don't want to attract attention to myself! Park your vehicle in front usually the police are there and do the same but by the nature of the times of day and the rural roads where thery are usually hit there don't tend to be many people about. Ones I've been to once the lead is taken the police are keen to just stand back and take advice and the job just gets done minimum of fuss. I've also been to a couple of horse RTA's and they are far worse its more about your manner and the way its approached that matters more, spectators only think in the negative if you look like you don't know what you are doing and botch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I dont get the onlookers thing as it dont get done till they are all clear, end of no exeptions. A moderated converted Webley bolt action .410 to pistol format is used by many for descresion. Though for me its .22 lr, deer rifle or 12 bore- if a firearm at all. Call out is not something people should look for IMO. Its not fun, can be inconvienient (i did one while i was actually in the act of moving house) can be unpleasant and carries a legal risk if things did go bad. As for stalking with a rifle and a pistol on my hip for wounders the thought is abhorrent and potrays us in the wrong light Wandering round like John Wayne toting a six shooter on my hip isn't really what I had in mind! more... in a pistol case in the bottom of my back pack! Anyhoo... as I now carry safety goggles, that little experience should ne'r be repeated... And who exactly would we be painting ourselves in a poor light too even if that was the case.... I'm pretty confident the nearest living soul to me when I'm stalking my usual land is 10-15 miles away! I think you have barked up the wrong tree with the 'looking for call out' thing... It is something I feel I can offer my services for to help and, at the end of the day, there is a financial aspect to it... in most areas, there is financial compensation for attending. I would personally rather step up to the plate, offer my services and know that if there was an incident I would be willing to go and deal with it and put the beast out of it's misery rather than burrying my head because it's 'distasteful' and just assume someone else will deal with it! Edited June 28, 2012 by Vipa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Wandering round like John Wayne toting a six shooter on my hip isn't really what I had in mind! more... in a pistol case in the bottom of my back pack! funnily enough your view mentioned there is exactly my impression of why the original poster wants one. On that basis if I was dishing out tickets I'd reduce his allocation to a single solitary pea shooter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 A two shot 9mm semi auto pistol So kind of like a ferrari restricted to 50hp, pointless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 leaving both hands and all my wits free to protect my eyes! The penny drops. I got stung by a stinging nettle trying to retrieve a pigeon last night which contrived to fall stone dead into the biggest pile of stingers on the steepest and muddiest hill available. Does that count? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vipa Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 A two shot 9mm semi auto pistol So kind of like a ferrari restricted to 50hp, pointless! Well... that's what most forces allow.. the theory being that 2 shots should be enough! Apparently, there is more chance of being allowed unrestricted if you shoot boar and want one for HD of boar... I'm reliably informed that often, a full clip isn't enough if boarzilla is charging you The penny drops. I got stung by a stinging nettle trying to retrieve a pigeon last night which contrived to fall stone dead into the biggest pile of stingers on the steepest and muddiest hill available. Does that count? Absolutely... you should get your variation in now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted June 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Hi swi ss Not really good reason is it " He's got one so i want one" some forces only allow 2 shot revolvers with 4 chambers welded up others allow semi automatics with 2 shot magazines others allow unrestricted semi autos i have a CZ85 9MM with a 2 shot magazine Geordie lol course it IS my mate had bullet gun/rifle i liked look of it so i got 1 just the same mate just need a good story now lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lexikia Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The captive bolt gun, now availlable to any one, does not kill the animal, pithing has to to be done to finish the animal off. I think pithing is a legal requirement in english slaughter houses unless it is Kosher or Alhal. Not a pretty sight to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Nice Rather them than me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 I have two .32 single shot free bullet pistols on my FAC. My weapon of choice for humane dispatch at the side of the road is a shotgun. It is not messy. It is very safe and effective. There is no real need to carry an extra firearm deer stalking, the only time I can see it being useful would be some catastrophic failure of the rifle. They come into their own when shooting horses that are standing (it would be impossible to get the angle with a rifle/shotgun) and I use it regularly for cows. Very rare I have shot an RTA deer with it. And I have them there at home in my cabinet. I'd use the .22RF first. Not sure how this is relevant: The captive bolt gun, now availlable to any one, does not kill the animal, pithing has to to be done to finish the animal off. I think pithing is a legal requirement in english slaughter houses unless it is Kosher or Alhal. But my captive bolt lives under the seat in my car. Has come in very useful at times when I don't have another gun with me. Pithing is illegal for animals that are going to enter the food chain, they must be bled. Very valid point that they only stun and don't kill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted June 29, 2012 Report Share Posted June 29, 2012 Wandering round like John Wayne toting a six shooter on my hip isn't really what I had in mind! more... in a pistol case in the bottom of my back pack! Anyhoo... as I now carry safety goggles, that little experience should ne'r be repeated... And who exactly would we be painting ourselves in a poor light too even if that was the case.... I'm pretty confident the nearest living soul to me when I'm stalking my usual land is 10-15 miles away! I think you have barked up the wrong tree with the 'looking for call out' thing... It is something I feel I can offer my services for to help and, at the end of the day, there is a financial aspect to it... in most areas, there is financial compensation for attending. I would personally rather step up to the plate, offer my services and know that if there was an incident I would be willing to go and deal with it and put the beast out of it's misery rather than burrying my head because it's 'distasteful' and just assume someone else will deal with it! I have never taken payment neither would i, it opens a bag of worms anyway. you can get forestry goggles which are just mesh, under the canopy it gets pretty humid and safty specs easy steam up. failing that get a mesh visor for the same pupose, crawing under spruce is a good reason to have a dog IMO more than a handgun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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