CharlieT Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 Am I the only one who thinks it is a cleaver and well produced short video. It is succinct, to the point and made up completely of pertinent sound bites. Their advertising agency and video production company have done them proud. Yes, we as shooters are able to see through the sound bites but Joe public, as he is with all advertising promotions, tends to believe such things. After all, if advertising didn't work TV companies would go broke. Unfortunately, no matter how proactive BASC and the CA are, nothing they can do will prevent this form of spurious nonsense being produced. All we can do is devote even more time and resources to educating the public of all the the benefits shooting brings to both the countryside and the population as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted July 7, 2012 Report Share Posted July 7, 2012 First it teaches us that we have to behave. As has been mentioned, much of the footage appears to have een aquired while trespassing. Anyone could be filmed, at any time, by these loonies and be on the internet branded a murdering toff within hours. Second, it teaches us that someone, somewhere, doesnt like us and is doing something about it. These particular people were involved with the Hunting Act, so they may have more weight than we think in government decission making over shooting and even firearms legislation. Exactly Am I the only one who thinks it is a cleaver and well produced short video. It is succinct, to the point and made up completely of pertinent sound bites. Their advertising agency and video production company have done them proud. Yes, we as shooters are able to see through the sound bites but Joe public, as he is with all advertising promotions, tends to believe such things. After all, if advertising didn't work TV companies would go broke. Unfortunately, no matter how proactive BASC and the CA are, nothing they can do will prevent this form of spurious nonsense being produced. All we can do is devote even more time and resources to educating the public of all the the benefits shooting brings to both the countryside and the population as a whole. Can't disagree with any of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) The antis are becoming active in their anti shooting campaigns, and it would help if the pro shooting organisations would do the same - create a video about the benefits of shooting. We need to be more proactive and not just reactive, as someone has already said. As for dumping of birds, I looked around on the animal aid website and if I remember rightly, found a mention from animal aid themselves that incidences of game being dumped are very rare and there are only a couple of confirmed cases. If I see an anti shooting article or comment when browsing the internet, I usually log in and comment if I can. I also browse all sorts of anti shooting websites to see what propaganda is being put against us. Do any other pigeon watch members do this as well? Edited July 8, 2012 by Reece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 8, 2012 Report Share Posted July 8, 2012 The antis are becoming active in their anti shooting campaigns, and it would help if the pro shooting organisations would do the same - create a video about the benefits of shooting. We need to be more proactive and not just reactive, as someone has already said. As for dumping of birds, I looked around on the animal aid website and if I remember rightly, found a mention from animal aid themselves that incidences of game being dumped are very rare and there are only a couple of confirmed cases. If I see an anti shooting article or comment when browsing the internet, I usually log in and comment if I can. I also browse all sorts of anti shooting websites to see what propaganda is being put against us. Do any other pigeon watch members do this as well? I do! Well, I do for a while, then I just get annoyed at the sheer stupidity displayed by eco warrior townies who cant tell a tree from a stalk of wheat and give up. Can be very interesting sometimes. Other times just infuriating. If you try to correct them they quite often just call you a toff, murder, phyco, etc etc. Gets boring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muddy Funker Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) The antis are becoming active in their anti shooting campaigns, and it would help if the pro shooting organisations would do the same - create a video about the benefits of shooting. We need to be more proactive and not just reactive, as someone has already said. As for dumping of birds, I looked around on the animal aid website and if I remember rightly, found a mention from animal aid themselves that incidences of game being dumped are very rare and there are only a couple of confirmed cases. If I see an anti shooting article or comment when browsing the internet, I usually log in and comment if I can. I also browse all sorts of anti shooting websites to see what propaganda is being put against us. Do any other pigeon watch members do this as well? I do mate but the fact is you can't argue/debate with these people as they're so set in thier ways and not willing to listen to reason. Animals are cute and we should not kill them!!! Out of interest do we have any anti's here that are willing to have a sensible discussion on the subject? I'm sure there are lurkers but I was wondering if any were ever brave enough to come out of the shadows? Same goes for LACS, any members from here post there? Edit: I've watched the full film, while it touches on a couple of things that might be considered relevant for the best part it is total propaganda. So they're saying millions of game birds are dumped? Where's the evidence, I only saw a handful which for years of supposed evidence gathering is quite frankly poor. What is the relevance of the landowner who was alleging the harrassment from a neighbouring shoot? I thought that part was absolutely ridiculous!!! Where he is talking about who is there to represent him or whatever words he uses, errr,,,,,, what about the police? Might watch a few more now. Edited July 9, 2012 by Muddy Funker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 9, 2012 Report Share Posted July 9, 2012 I do mate but the fact is you can't argue/debate with these people as they're so set in thier ways and not willing to listen to reason. Animals are cute and we should not kill them!!! Out of interest do we have any anti's here that are willing to have a sensible discussion on the subject? I'm sure there are lurkers but I was wondering if any were ever brave enough to come out of the shadows? Same goes for LACS, any members from here post there? An anti is an anti and won't change their ways, but for those who are undecided, one unchallenged but idiotic post from an anti might be all it takes to push them over to the anti side. There are people on both sides who hold their views dear to their hearts and you will not change their views, but you can persuade those in the middle ground who are undecided on the issue. I always do it just to add a bit of balance to the discussion for any passing person who is unsure. An unchallenged post from an anti is more believable than one which has been scrutinised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Dear All, As you know the Leagues film was on YouTube, we have contacted YouTube to complain, and they have removed the film. The league will , I have no doubt, lobby YouTube to try and get it back on….we will see David Edited July 10, 2012 by David BASC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Dear All, As you know the Leagues film was on YouTube, we have contacted YouTube to complain, and they have removed the film. The league will , I have no doubt, lobby YouTube to try and get it back on….we will see David are BASC planning any pro-shooting stuff to counteract this propoganda? I mean they have the media facility now. not talking about the films aimed at us shooters but some for the general U-tube wanderer? sometimes we find it easy to preach to the converted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 Yes indeed, and more on this and what else we can all do about it soon. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 are BASC planning any pro-shooting stuff to counteract this propoganda? I mean they have the media facility now. not talking about the films aimed at us shooters but some for the general U-tube wanderer? sometimes we find it easy to preach to the converted where do you think the clip that infringed copyright in this case came from Nice when getting a film like that removed is quite so simple Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougall Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 David, LACS film still up on utube as at 2.52pm today........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 The anti-shooting video made by the League Against Cruel Sports was removed from YouTube and Vimeo after BASC accused the organisation of breach of copyright. BASC reported the League Against Cruel Sports to both internet sites because it had included a clip from BASC’s own film “An Introduction to Pheasant Shooting”. BASC heard today that both YouTube and Vimeo, the two main film-hosting web channels, had removed the League’s anti-shooting video, Gunsmoke and Mirrors, while the copyright issue was resolved. The video has now been re-edited and re-published. The copyrighted material has been removed. Gunsmoke and Mirrors is littered with factual inaccuracies and misrepresents shooting. We took immediate action to ensure BASC material could not be included. To watch BASC’s film An Introduction to Pheasant Shooting, visit http://www.youtube.com/user/BASCfilms What we an all do is post comments on the channel (polite and accurate) pointing out the factual inaccuracies etc. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 10, 2012 Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) Interesting to note that the film almost exclusively shows LACS personnel, barring 2 MP's who are skillfully used, particularly in relation to snaring. Nothing is mentioned about the destruction caused by cats kept as pets and nothing about the law on control of dogs and the legitimate protection of what constitutes 'livestock'. The extension of what looks like unuseable remains of deer and pheasant carcasses for predator attraction into 'mass dumping of millions of shot birds' is a wicked fabrication - who would dump a deer carcass rather than eat venison? The hypothetical link to mass killing of animals to protect pheasants, as with much other evidence, is unsubstantiated. The idea that it is amoral to involve children in shooting is appalling and possibly the most repugnant of all aspects of the video. All aspects of this video need challenging in respect of truthfulness and objectivity, a piece by piece alternative interpretation with an unbiased and objective conclusion could be made which would leave an intelligent person to draw conclusions. How many dogs have been killed by gamekeepers last year; how many have been killed by farmers, how many incidents of worrying livestock are recorded by the NFU and what is the law of the land to protect expensive livestock, not just pheasants. An intelligent deconstruction of the video needs to be made to show it as an emotional unsubstantiated plea for funds for those whose jobs depend on telling partial truths to animal lovers who arent shooters, as those animal lovers who are also shooters, I'm one, recognise there are some faults in the system but our organisations are actively working to eradicate lawbreaking and improve welfare standards - (Codes of Good Practice etc) as well as continuing extensive work in conservation of habitat waterfowl etc.. Contrast emotional hype with reality and their video loses its teeth. Perhaps its also time BASC publicly stated it will expose law breaking in predator control and any other aspect of shooting sports as the majority suffer if the minority breaks the law or adopts poor or cruel practice. Just a few thoughts after viewing the full length video and visiting LACS website. Edited July 10, 2012 by Kes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted July 10, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2012 One of the MP's (Derby North) used to be closely linked to LACS , He was a key force as a trustee of the League Against Cruel Sports in the national campaign that eventually saw foxhunting outlawed. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 One of the MP's (Derby North) used to be closely linked to LACS , He was a key force as a trustee of the League Against Cruel Sports in the national campaign that eventually saw foxhunting outlawed. David Do you mean Chris Williamson? He's an MP for Derby North and he does post a lot of anti shooting stuff on his blog. He also joined a campaign to restrict shooting magazines or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 Do you mean Chris Williamson? He's an MP for Derby North and he does post a lot of anti shooting stuff on his blog. He also joined a campaign to restrict shooting magazines or something. That guy really is an idiot. He recently wrote a piece on his blog attacking shooting, and its followed from loads of pro shooting comments which show him to be a rambling biggoted fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reece Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) That guy really is an idiot. He recently wrote a piece on his blog attacking shooting, and its followed from loads of pro shooting comments which show him to be a rambling biggoted fool. I just thought I'd mention that I was one of them. I sent him quite a long email about it. I decided to after I saw a letter in Shooting Times. I've also posted a few comments on the LACS video. Edited July 11, 2012 by Reece Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 11, 2012 Report Share Posted July 11, 2012 I cant believe he has not been removed from office, all he is doing is using his position to push his own personal agenda. His pieces are blinkered, and he uses figures of murders committed with illegal guns as 'evidence' to push for a ban on legal private owner ship. He seems to believe that the country can get by with no pest control or animal population managment and that animals are only killed for fun and brands those involved as killers and murders. He thinks that it is a good idea and indeed practicle to store all guns at clubs, because obviously all animals are shot at gun clubs. I cant get over how stupid some people are! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dicehorn Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just an update to this thread http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/british-association-for-shooting-and-conservation-basc/article/league-film-taken-down-after-basc-accusation-of-breach-of-co Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 Just an update to this thread http://www.politics.co.uk/opinion-formers/british-association-for-shooting-and-conservation-basc/article/league-film-taken-down-after-basc-accusation-of-breach-of-co The comment makes it sound like the second holocaust with the buried in giant trenches bit. It is a perfect example of someone who has never seen a real shoot, and whos only evidence is from the antis propaganda. Its almost word for word what they spout on thier website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I see that unlistenable-to DJ Mark Radcliffe has been 'interviewed' on the LACS website too. Tosspot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cant hit rabbits 123 Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 (edited) If anti's must be anti, why can they not be more like this fellow. Edited July 14, 2012 by cant hit rabbits 123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted July 14, 2012 Report Share Posted July 14, 2012 I see that unlistenable-to DJ Mark Radcliffe has been 'interviewed' on the LACS website too. Tosspot. They certainly have some high profile celeb's on board....a lot more than us anyhow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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