speckled frank Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 This is just a beginners question, but I am sure that someone on PW can answer it. I recently got a Webley and Scott .410 bolt action shotgun. The RFD who sold it to me recommended that I use Eley Fourlong cartridges. I have noticed that on the cartridge base it says "36 cal". Does this mean that a 410 shotgun is also a 36 gauge? If that it so why is it referred to as a 410 (which I imagine is the cartridge diameter) and does not follow the normal convention where it would be referred to as a 36 gauge/bore? Anyway, it's a lovely squirrel gun (grey of course!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo90 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 i think the 36 cal is wrong and that it works out as a 48bore or such? i think its an historical mistake that has been continued Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbuss Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 This is just a beginners question, but I am sure that someone on PW can answer it. I recently got a Webley and Scott .410 bolt action shotgun. The RFD who sold it to me recommended that I use Eley Fourlong cartridges. I have noticed that on the cartridge base it says "36 cal". Does this mean that a 410 shotgun is also a 36 gauge? If that it so why is it referred to as a 410 (which I imagine is the cartridge diameter) and does not follow the normal convention where it would be referred to as a 36 gauge/bore? Anyway, it's a lovely squirrel gun (grey of course!). You're nearly there there. The .410 is the only shotgun cartridge which doesn't follow the archaic bore/gauge format. This is where the bore is the same diameter as a pure lead ball of a certain weight (1/12 lb = 12 bore 1/28 1b =28 bore etc). The .410 is nominally 0.41 inch diameter and would be a 68 bore if measured the same as the others. For some reason, a hundred or so years ago it was mistakenly though to be a 36 bore and as Compo90 says, the mistake sort of stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houlsby Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 There quite quiet as well, been rabbiting with mine a few times. Where does it say 36g? On the cart or the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 There quite quiet as well, been rabbiting with mine a few times. Where does it say 36g? On the cart or the gun? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 It's on the brass cartridge base. What range can you take a rabbit out with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 You're nearly there there. The .410 is the only shotgun cartridge which doesn't follow the archaic bore/gauge format. This is where the bore is the same diameter as a pure lead ball of a certain weight (1/12 lb = 12 bore 1/28 1b =28 bore etc). The .410 is nominally 0.41 inch diameter and would be a 68 bore if measured the same as the others. For some reason, a hundred or so years ago it was mistakenly though to be a 36 bore and as Compo90 says, the mistake sort of stuck. You're nearly there there. The .410 is the only shotgun cartridge which doesn't follow the archaic bore/gauge format. This is where the bore is the same diameter as a pure lead ball of a certain weight (1/12 lb = 12 bore 1/28 1b =28 bore etc). The .410 is nominally 0.41 inch diameter and would be a 68 bore if measured the same as the others. For some reason, a hundred or so years ago it was mistakenly though to be a 36 bore and as Compo90 says, the mistake sort of stuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Thanks for that Blunderbuss. At least I feel a bit better now knowing that I missed something with a 68 bore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
humperdingle Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Bit of trivia... http://www.chuckhawks.com/410bore.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 To be pedantic, it's closer to 67.68 bore. The barrel is indeed .410", though choke constriction can take that down to 0.387" or so with full choke. As to the '36 cal' I have no idea what that is about, I've never heard of it before. The range on rabbits should be within about 25/30 yards. The trouble with a .410 is the pattern is so small that hitting a target beyond those ranges is very difficult, resulting in misses or injury. A great little gun for wandering about and popping off rabbits, close pigeons and squirrels when close enough. I'd suggest no. 5 shot. Make sure that you don't try to use cartridges longer than the gun is chambered for, some older ones have a maximum cartridge length of 2.5", some of them can only take 2", whereas the newer ones are OK up to 3". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Even the term bore is incorrect for any current shotgun other than .410,9mm,.22 and various smoothbored muzzleloaders that retain their rifle size bore. All others are gauges. A long time ago lead was a constant. There was no fine engineers measuring devises. A barrel maker could use lead to come up with a gauge to which he could use to copy over and over again in his barrel manufacturing. Some gauges were dropped and some stuck. 36cal is used in europe to refer to .410. .410 is the barrels bore size. The case itself is close to 444Marlin. U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy H Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Have a read of this. http://www.fourten.org.uk/36gauge.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggysreels Posted July 15, 2012 Report Share Posted July 15, 2012 Is there anyway of gaining information from the serial number on a Webley And Scott .410 bolt action ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 Have a read of this. http://www.fourten.org.uk/36gauge.html Many thanks for that Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 As already mentioned, watch the maximum range. A few minutes shooting large sheets of paper will tell you how big the gaps are in your pattern. As regards Fourlongs being recommended- they are a great cartridge which saw me through my early years with a Norica bolt action. However, I would not go with number 5 shot as there will be very few of them in a 12.5g Fourlong. Number 7 are listed (I think in 2.5 inch)which would be good for close woodies but i have yet to get my hands on a box. Sixes are easy to get hold of and are OK for rabbit at 25 yards. Remember, with a .410 the pattern generaly gives out before the pellet energy. I started loading my own so I can shoot exactly what works for me. All the best with it- I think everyone should have a .410, if only for a bit of fun now and again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speckled frank Posted July 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 As already mentioned, watch the maximum range. A few minutes shooting large sheets of paper will tell you how big the gaps are in your pattern. As regards Fourlongs being recommended- they are a great cartridge which saw me through my early years with a Norica bolt action. However, I would not go with number 5 shot as there will be very few of them in a 12.5g Fourlong. Number 7 are listed (I think in 2.5 inch)which would be good for close woodies but i have yet to get my hands on a box. Sixes are easy to get hold of and are OK for rabbit at 25 yards. Remember, with a .410 the pattern generaly gives out before the pellet energy. I started loading my own so I can shoot exactly what works for me. All the best with it- I think everyone should have a .410, if only for a bit of fun now and again. Thanks for the advice Dangerous. When I got my 410 the RFD said "Don't let anyone give you a hard time using this. A 410 is a gentleman's gun!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Underdog Posted July 16, 2012 Report Share Posted July 16, 2012 As already mentioned, watch the maximum range. A few minutes shooting large sheets of paper will tell you how big the gaps are in your pattern. As regards Fourlongs being recommended- they are a great cartridge which saw me through my early years with a Norica bolt action. However, I would not go with number 5 shot as there will be very few of them in a 12.5g Fourlong. Number 7 are listed (I think in 2.5 inch)which would be good for close woodies but i have yet to get my hands on a box. Sixes are easy to get hold of and are OK for rabbit at 25 yards. Remember, with a .410 the pattern generaly gives out before the pellet energy. I started loading my own so I can shoot exactly what works for me. All the best with it- I think everyone should have a .410, if only for a bit of fun now and again. Spot on All my 410 reloads were 7s and 71/2s and I did fine on pheasant, pigeon, crow and Fox! The fox was side on at 33 paces , further than I thought at the time! IIRC at liest 7 no 7 shot penertrated the rib cage to the skin on the other side and was instant! U. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
houlsby Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 Using 11g no6 Iv taken rabbits to around 25-30 paces. It's useless on birds tho, the rabbits were stone dead. I really like it, take it flaying a few times to learn your ranges and lead etc and have a go at the rabbit stands its a right giggle, very expensive tho lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dangerous Brian Posted July 18, 2012 Report Share Posted July 18, 2012 Using 11g no6 Iv taken rabbits to around 25-30 paces. It's useless on birds tho, the rabbits were stone dead. I really like it, take it flaying a few times to learn your ranges and lead etc and have a go at the rabbit stands its a right giggle, very expensive tho lol Absolutely- The last stand at my local is sometimes a rabbit. Great fun if there is a bunch of you all wanting to use the .410. Even more fun trying to quickly adjust if you have been using a 12 gauge for the previous 9 stands. My friend has a Winchester underleaver and shooting Wild West style does take some getting used to. I'll probably stick with my little Yildiz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fieldwanderer Posted July 20, 2012 Report Share Posted July 20, 2012 I borrow one off a mate occasionally, very good fun and certainly capable. Shame it's not cheaper to run though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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