cockercas Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 knowing of 2 people who have sgc and another who has sgc/fac who, in my opinion shouldn't have a water pistol never mind a shotgun. should we have a sort of test? well not a test that decides if you get the certificate or not more like a questionnaire. one that covers basic things like knowing were you can shoot, approved land/permission ect. basic safety, etiquette ect. if say theres a question about shooting on a naibouring farm with your rifle, and your on a conditioned cert can you legally do it. if you dont know the answer than a quick google and your more informed. or shooting a rifle at a crow sat at the top of a tree with blue sky behind is it safe or not? if you answer yes than a quick word by the flo and your more informed and safer. got to be a good thing. right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 knowing of 2 people who have sgc and another who has sgc/fac who, in my opinion shouldn't have a water pistol never mind a shotgun. should we have a sort of test? well not a test that decides if you get the certificate or not more like a questionnaire. one that covers basic things like knowing were you can shoot, approved land/permission ect. basic safety, etiquette ect. if say theres a question about shooting on a naibouring farm with your rifle, and your on a conditioned cert can you legally do it. if you dont know the answer than a quick google and your more informed. or shooting a rifle at a crow sat at the top of a tree with blue sky behind is it safe or not? if you answer yes than a quick word by the flo and your more informed and safer. got to be a good thing. right? Now studying your signature i should say cause for consern there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Errrr the historic posts of a few on here (now banned) in relation to the old "pistol ban chestnut" would certainly fail any psychometric test you care to mention. Where do you start? What questions do you ask and what tests do you set? What about a photo of Anne Widdecombe topless on the front of the SGC / FAC form and anyone who has a trouser twitch gets sent to the padded cells immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 knowing of 2 people who have sgc and another who has sgc/fac who, in my opinion shouldn't have a water pistol never mind a shotgun. should we have a sort of test? well not a test that decides if you get the certificate or not more like a questionnaire. one that covers basic things like knowing were you can shoot, approved land/permission ect. basic safety, etiquette ect. if say theres a question about shooting on a naibouring farm with your rifle, and your on a conditioned cert can you legally do it. if you dont know the answer than a quick google and your more informed. or shooting a rifle at a crow sat at the top of a tree with blue sky behind is it safe or not? if you answer yes than a quick word by the flo and your more informed and safer. got to be a good thing. right? This sort of stuff was done with me at the interview but I agree with you, it can only be in our interests in the long run. That said I'm not in favour of specific tests for quarry but gun and shooting safety and the law is a different kettle of fish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Now studying your signature i should say cause for consern there the system the police have to follow is an ****, never in my life will i phone plod again. as they say 'the law is an **** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 (edited) This sort of stuff was done with me at the interview but I agree with you, it can only be in our interests in the long run. That said I'm not in favour of specific tests for quarry but gun and shooting safety and the law is a different kettle of fish. more what i was getting at. a lad in the village has just got into rifles, ive been showing him bits and bobs but he seemed abit shocked when i said he would have to get plod to check his mates farm before he could shoot. and that he couldnt shoot fox with his .22lr Edited July 23, 2012 by cockercas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 more what i was getting at. a lad in the village has just got into rifles, ive been showing him bits and bobs but he seemed abit shocked when i said he would have to get plod to check his mates farm before he could shoot. and that he couldnt shoot fox with his .22lr Thats a dangerous level of knowledge for someone who has a deadly weapon - his FEO cant be much cop ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted July 23, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 Thats a dangerous level of knowledge for someone who has a deadly weapon - his FEO cant be much cop ! there pcso's, they was baffled when i was talking about 'open ticket'. he knows now. but how else would he of found out if i wasent there to ask? plod turning up pointing there mp5s at him in the dark, cert revoked and the loss of something he loves doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apache Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 there pcso's, they was baffled when i was talking about 'open ticket'. Strictly there is no such thing (in law) as an open or closed ticket, it is just a popular term. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedwards1966 Posted July 23, 2012 Report Share Posted July 23, 2012 It is indeed concerning just how little some people know, both regarding safety and the legal side. When I had both my SGC interview (few years ago) and my FAC interview (last year) I was told in great detail what I could and could not do, how to handle guns, what is and isn't legal and humane and so on. Much of it is fairly basic stuff, though to someone new to shooting it is critical to know. I didn't learn much, as I was lucky enough to be taught by someone who knows what he's doing, but I can defiantly say the stuff I was told by my FEO was well worth listening to. This leaves me wondering why so many people haven't a clue. Is it that not all FEO's go through all this (most likely), or that people just don't listen or care? In some ways I think that compulsory testing, mainly focused on firearm safety as the legal stuff isn't that important (yes it's wrong to break the law but it's not going to kill someone), however my concern about any sort of test/questionnaire/course etc is that it is yet another expense for the shooter, and another way in which we'll get restricted out of shooting. It might start as a free questionnaire to determine whether you need teaching a few things, but it would then be charged for, then you'd end up having to pass it to retain your certificates, then it would get harder and so on, until there were no shooters left who could afford it and pass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swiss.tony Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Glad im not on your list for Danger the thing here lots of people are thick you see it all the time at work on the roads and with guns i once had a mate shoot him self in foot with air rifle after i told him to empty it he trusted the safty catch bad idea . i honestly think its too easy to get guns with not much more than a good record and a cabint and a feild your ticket lands on mat run to shop then lots of people think you can shoot where you like i also no a lad who shoots deers on other peoples land with a c/f not open ticket i bet a few off here have took there rifles to bits of land they shouldnt have . Too be fair you have as much chance geting caught as you do with winning lotto most cops dont evan no what a FAC ticket looks likes. iv took a few out and still to this date i see them doing safety routeens i showed them on day 1 and like they say its just good gun practice 6 months to get .......1 second to lose only thing you can do is learn him more mate before he loses his bit of paper for good ps...... sin 3 feilds down now iv got 3 rape cut 2 grass and barley due today so lamp and foxy cannon will be out at weekend if your up for a ride ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matone Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 knowing of 2 people who have sgc and another who has sgc/fac who, in my opinion shouldn't have a water pistol never mind a shotgun. should we have a sort of test? well not a test that decides if you get the certificate or not more like a questionnaire. one that covers basic things like knowing were you can shoot, approved land/permission ect. basic safety, etiquette ect. if say theres a question about shooting on a naibouring farm with your rifle, and your on a conditioned cert can you legally do it. if you dont know the answer than a quick google and your more informed. or shooting a rifle at a crow sat at the top of a tree with blue sky behind is it safe or not? if you answer yes than a quick word by the flo and your more informed and safer. got to be a good thing. right? Couldn`t agree more,most shooting forums expose the sadly lacking mentality of a high percentage of those who post. I`ve always been dead set against any form of mandatory testing etc but reading the posts of many here and elsewhere,I find a shocking lack of intelligence and powers of reasoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 the system the police have to follow is an ****, never in my life will i phone plod again. as they say 'the law is an **** Being quite serious does this make you a pillar of the comunity? i don't think so personally. the thing is we can all look outwards and critise others. I actually do think training is a very good thing and have played with the idea of setting something up, though i must admit am a little put off by the red tape i might encounter and the jobsworths Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not one for compulsory testing, and certainly wouldn't advocate anything that adds any extra expense. However, I do think there is a way forward which would help newcomers to the sport gain a little knowledge on safety and the basics of shooting. It would involve all the major shooting organisations and the police working together and setting up a website aimed specifically at new shooters. The site should be in layman's language, and have easily accessed sections to cover the basics. For instance the police have input on the legal side of things. CPSA would cover basic clay shooting info and safety. BASC/CA to cover live quarry info and safety. There could be links to more specific things, such as general licences, seasons and cartridge choice etc. The main jist of each section should be to give information on WHERE to shoot, WHAT to shoot and WHEN to shoot, and to do it all LEGALLY and SAFELY. A small leaflet should be produced by the above orgs. and sent out with every new application, advising the applicant of the website so they can then access whichever section suits them best for the type of shooting they're interested in. It would then be up to the applicant to learn a little about what they hope to be doing, if their application is passed. The safety and legal side should be a compulsory read, and the FEO should ask a few questions at the interview. If the applicant hasn't bothered to learn the basics then his application should be put on hold until he/she has made the effort. In my mind if you can't be bothered to learn the basic safety and legal aspects of the sport then you shouldn't have access to firearms. We're talking about newcomers to the sport here, so everything should be in simple to understand language, not jargon, and only needs to cover the basic requirements needed to get started. Any extra information could be accessed through links to the relevant websites. The cost of the website and information sheets should be met by the shooting organisations, with NO extra cost to the new shooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I'm not one for compulsory testing, and certainly wouldn't advocate anything that adds any extra expense. However, I do think there is a way forward which would help newcomers to the sport gain a little knowledge on safety and the basics of shooting. It would involve all the major shooting organisations and the police working together and setting up a website aimed specifically at new shooters. The site should be in layman's language, and have easily accessed sections to cover the basics. For instance the police have input on the legal side of things. CPSA would cover basic clay shooting info and safety. BASC/CA to cover live quarry info and safety. There could be links to more specific things, such as general licences, seasons and cartridge choice etc. The main jist of each section should be to give information on WHERE to shoot, WHAT to shoot and WHEN to shoot, and to do it all LEGALLY and SAFELY. A small leaflet should be produced by the above orgs. and sent out with every new application, advising the applicant of the website so they can then access whichever section suits them best for the type of shooting they're interested in. It would then be up to the applicant to learn a little about what they hope to be doing, if their application is passed. The safety and legal side should be a compulsory read, and the FEO should ask a few questions at the interview. If the applicant hasn't bothered to learn the basics then his application should be put on hold until he/she has made the effort. In my mind if you can't be bothered to learn the basic safety and legal aspects of the sport then you shouldn't have access to firearms. We're talking about newcomers to the sport here, so everything should be in simple to understand language, not jargon, and only needs to cover the basic requirements needed to get started. Any extra information could be accessed through links to the relevant websites. The cost of the website and information sheets should be met by the shooting organisations, with NO extra cost to the new shooter. Yes,great idea i have thought a book or booklet might be produced upon a similar vein. getting our organisations to co-operate with each other might be the hardest part I have to say i am often left very unimpressed by some organisations works in this regards and sponsor bias (that must be removed from any such work) you can see it comming " you realy must get X,Y,Z and heres the suppliers contact details", i hope we never see one "in association with" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
station Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Couldn`t agree more,most shooting forums expose the sadly lacking mentality of a high percentage of those who post. I`ve always been dead set against any form of mandatory testing etc but reading the posts of many here and elsewhere,I find a shocking lack of intelligence and powers of reasoning. And for the paranoid out there - yes he is talking about you ........ or us ..........or is it just me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xav Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 When I was in France I had to take a test before I could be granted a SGC (quarry recognition,habitats, gun safety, ballistics...). I know many people are against and I can understand why but then again, I think it would help beginners feel more confident when they start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Interesting points, BASC already produce codes of practice such as the Shotgun code the Air rifle code, the lamping code and so on., the first two are endorsed by ACOP and many police forces take these and hand them out to applicants. I am not in favour of compulsory testing either, but surely to goodness it’s reasonable for people who own firearms to know the basics of the law, and good practice, and making yourself familiar with the BASC codes is simple enough. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kes Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I think it needs a bit of force and integration David. The idea of pointing an applicant at a website before his interview with the FEO and then running through some basics of law, species recognition, gun safety etc.- making it a REQUIREMENT and getting an Ok are surely better than voluntary codes? Having all organisations involved and the police bring some sense of purpose and intent as well. Many people are not BASC members still. I think its a great idea from (was it) Kent. It would also be useful in starting to bring some commonality to police forces across the country. Another helpful thing might be a voluntary database (privacy protected) of grants, calibres and restrictions for FAC's across the country as its more and more obvious there are extreme and unwarranted variations. Useful for BASC too perhaps to collate best and worst and normal practice in FAC grants for their members and Mr Harriman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keg Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Whilst my FEO was happy to give me my FAC with any mentoring conditions, he did want a letter stating that i had been out with an experienced FAC holder and had proved myself safe. What defines an experienced FAC holder What is to stop anyone just writing the letter " for a mate". It's a case of you don't know what you don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 BASC has had 19 Codes Of Conduct for decades. We have had the 10 Commandments for several millenia: They don't do much good either! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Interesting points, BASC already produce codes of practice such as the Shotgun code the Air rifle code, the lamping code and so on., the first two are endorsed by ACOP and many police forces take these and hand them out to applicants. I am not in favour of compulsory testing either, but surely to goodness it’s reasonable for people who own firearms to know the basics of the law, and good practice, and making yourself familiar with the BASC codes is simple enough. David I don't disagree with what you say David, but there are an estimated 800,000 shooters in the UK and only 130,000 are BASC members. That leaves a huge amount of people (even taking into account other orgs membership) who probably gain their information from friends and forums such as this. The problem with that, as we see all too often on here, is the amount of conflicting views on pretty much any subject. A national 'database' with definitive information can only be beneficial. I really do think it's about time the shooting community got its collective backsides into gear and started promoting the sport to the general public. All we ever see from the media is the bad news stories. Wouldn't it be great if just for once we all got together, with the police, and worked actively to promote safer shooting to newcomers to the sport? Just think of the PR benefits of the shooting community working together with the police and being SEEN to promote safe, legal sport on their own initiative, without the need for legislation. It's a win win situation. We often see from the anti gun lobby how easy it is for people to own a shotgun, with very little training and knowledge. We could very easily knock that argument on the head couldn't we? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson_tom Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 When i got my SGC I had an informal interview and she asked a range of questions not only on the quarry but also safe shots, what land you can go on and even safe handling of the gun. All of it was basic stuff and most the answer were in BASC code of practice. I felt the questions were all valid and none were trying to catch you out or anything. After looking on here supposedly she has no right to ask me the questions but i felt it was good as they showed i was serious about getting the gun and had safety as a priority. These questions did make you think and if I got one wrong she just explained the correct way to do something and also it did make me read the codes of practice properly. I no other people have just had there FEO turn up check the cabinet etc and then just leave after a cup of tea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazed Posted July 24, 2012 Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 I have found that progressing to the fac side of shooting in general is very confusing and can be a steep learning curve. And your pretty much left to your own devices. I have tried not to get carried away so to speak, as not to forget the fudementals of The safety of myself and others that may be around me. It can be hard for some people to listen to sound advice, especially if they "know it all and have done it all before" I my self am aware I am not perfect and will take my criticisms and use them to build my knowledge to make my hobby/ sport more enjoyable and most of all safer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockercas Posted July 24, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2012 Is there all the relevant links in the newbie section? Would it be hard to run a day, by pw members teaching the basics like they do with fishing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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