flat shooting!!!

[varget]

i'm poss after a O/U shotgun

it needs to be flat shooting ( no tapered rib )

also 3" chamber m/c

will be used as a general purpose gun (pigeons/crows and clays)

 

anyone got/had one that fits the description, if so what did you think of it

i'm off to the midland on sun so could possibly be bringing a o/u home!!!!!

[dunganick]

miroku MK70 has alot of drop at comb and heel (which should provide a 'flat shooting' gun) the sporter has more drop than the game, (although game still has alot) but the sporter only has 2 3/4" chambers, where as the Game has 3"

[varget]

most shotguns are designed to shoot high (60%high 40%low). ie resting the centre of a stationary target on top of the bead will lead to a central patern of your shot

i want a gun that when the bead is covering the centre of the target it shoots central

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN :look: :look: ?

[dunganick]

I am not certain about this, but i believe 99% of the time when someone says their gun shoots 60/40 this is when the gun is mounted comfortably for them.

 

On any of these guns if you were to look completely flat down the rib (seeing no rib at all) it would shoot POA

 

However i am not certain about this, i simply shoot a gun which is 'flat shooting' with alot of drop at comb and heel.

[Catamong]

Most guns need to be adapted to shoot "flat", this can be done fairly cheaply by a competent gunsmith.

 

A gun that shoots flat for Nick may not shoot flat for somebody else because everybody's faces and cheeks are different.

 

The best option is to find a gun you like at a price that suits you and then get it altered.

 

Cat.

[dunganick]

Most guns need to be adapted to shoot "flat", this can be done fairly cheaply by a competent gunsmith.

 

A gun that shoots flat for Nick may not shoot flat for somebody else because everybody's faces and cheeks are different.

 

The best option is to find a gun you like at a price that suits you and then get it altered.

 

Cat.

 

 

so the adjustment to make a gun shoot flat is found in the stock not in any angles which are set up in the rib.

 

Mk70..... lots of drop.... flat shooting

[the last engineer]

most shotguns are designed to shoot high (60%high 40%low). ie resting the centre of a stationary target on top of the bead will lead to a central patern of your shot

i want a gun that when the bead is covering the centre of the target it shoots central

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN :look: ?

 

 

that my friend will come down to gun fit, as you mention correctly the 60/40 split is standard knowledge in poa, your requirement will need tuning/fitting the stock to your personnel point of aim, before you start hacking the **** out of your existing pc of furniture look to get a low end stock to play with, it can get expensive if you go wrong once or twice , may i ask why you need the gun to shoot this way ?? is it a personnel feel or something you trying out , just curious.

 

as Nick mentioned a lot of stocks will change the way you see a target, you need one that fits you, i may see the same as nick when shooting but my stocks are different, so is the shape of my barrnet :look:

 

Martin

 

oopppps so slow sorry boys

[dunganick]

go into a local gunshop and try everything

 

its what i did, i tried, browning, winchesters, miroku's (all models) beretta's, everything i could lay my hands on and the ones which suited certainly stood out to me.

[varget]

no your all missing my point

if you look down your rib and see no rib just the pip you cant drop the heel no more or you aint seeing nowt.

if it has a tapered rib the angle that it has in conjuntion with your barrel (ie lie your gun flat draw a line through the centre of your barrel and the same with the rib they do not run parrallel thus making the gun shoot high)

with a gun that has hardly any taper on the rib will shoot how i want a gun to shoot (coz i shoot better this way) hatsan escort's can shoot like this but i want an O/U

know what i mean now guys :look: :look:

[dunganick]

 

giving you this effect?

 

well all hte sporting guns i have shot have been setup to my knoledge to shoot 60/40, and i have never found any problem with this. it is mainly trap guns which have the above style rib, and you are very unlikely to find a gun with 3" chambers and a rib like the above.

 

Also bare in mind that the end of the barrels are flared to allow for the chokes, so although this gun appears to have a very strong taper on it, it probably has a very slight one.

 

If you are looking for a sporting gun then i am 99% sure you will only be able to find guns with standard completely flat ribs. Gun fit makes more difference than anything on a gun in my experiance.

[pin]

Have a look at the beretta 686 white onxy. I don't know enough about all this fitment lark apart from mine fits me, looking at it and pictures of it, it looks how you want it to look (rib paralell to the barrels).

 

Could be wrong, usually am

[dunganick]

beretta's dont generally have a noticeable buldge at the end of the barrels like winchesters/browning/miroku's, hense why the rib seems flat. Compared to :

 

(note picture is rubbish as ive turned brightness up so you can see barrels better)

[ziplex]

I was thinking of asking about this rib/fit lark but assumed if the gun felt right and came to shoulder well it should shoot well for you?.............

 

IE; I tried shouldering a Bettinsoli and it felt ok, tryed a Beretta White Onyx and it felt much, much better...i'm not saying it was right but it 'felt' right to me. When buying a gun is it best to buy what feels right or get assistance on gun fit?

[dunganick]

i dont know if this is any measure of anything, but if i mount a gun which is roughly the right fit for me wth my eyes closed (and pointing up a bit) and then open my eyes and look at the rib, it normally gives me an indication if the gun will fit right.

 

Of course our mount does change over time dependant on what gun we are used to, so its by no means a good way of testing on new guns. But it should show if its a seriously bad fit.

 

It also depends on how much rib the shooter likes to 'see' (obviously they shouldnt be looking at it)

 

For example, i like to see the two bead on my gun in a figure of 8 arrangement, this isnt to say i look for this, but i know through moving my focus, that when i mount the gun 'in anger' this is what it comes up like.

 

However i know many shooters who see alot more rib than this.

[ziplex]

I must admit this is going over my head ever so slightly Nick, I also couldn't believe how one gun of similar weight/length/design could feel so different to another. I know the guys at Avalon are happy for a serious customer to take a few guns to the shooting ground to try before purchase.............in my case I think that may well be advisable.

[dunganick]

its a very difficult topic to understand, im not so sure i entirely understand it myself

[ziplex]

its a very difficult topic to understand, im not so sure i entirely understand it myself

 

Better than me obviously..........the powers of retention drop with middle age it seems

[Pushkin]

Varget, perhaps the solution to your quest lies in a much simpler answer You can buy different beads that are set - or can be set higher than a standard one. If you get one that has a light grabbing effect - can't recall the proper name for them - it will help to refocus your aim point. Keep in mind though that in raising the bead, it doesn't take much to quite drastically change your point of aim. I know it's not the same as getting a flatter rib - but it will work out a lot cheaper.

 

Pushkin.

[the last engineer]

no your all missing my point

if you look down your rib and see no rib just the pip you cant drop the heel no more or you aint seeing nowt.

if it has a tapered rib the angle that it has in conjuntion with your barrel (ie lie your gun flat draw a line through the centre of your barrel and the same with the rib they do not run parrallel thus making the gun shoot high)

with a gun that has hardly any taper on the rib will shoot how i want a gun to shoot (coz i shoot better this way) hatsan escort's can shoot like this but i want an O/U

know what i mean now guys :look: :look:

 

knowing now what you mean i still think a visit to a gunshop/smith will sort you out, from what you explain (coz i shoot better) might not be the answer, have you tried getting a respectable shooter to whatch and see if your mount and style could do with a slight tune up ( im not saying your shooting incorrectly) you may see a difference there, the way you explain it is the end of rib (at muzzle) needs to be raised parrallel to the barrel P.O.I. ,the only gun i have seen with an adjustment there was, again as Nick rightly pointed out, in a trap configuration, not the sporting or field style i beleive you use, again i respectfully sujest a fitting at a reputable smith/shop/club.

 

Martin

[varget]

Varget, perhaps the solution to your quest lies in a much simpler answer You can buy different beads that are set - or can be set higher than a standard one. If you get one that has a light grabbing effect - can't recall the proper name for them - it will help to refocus your aim point. Keep in mind though that in raising the bead, it doesn't take much to quite drastically change your point of aim. I know it's not the same as getting a flatter rib - but it will work out a lot cheaper.

 

Pushkin.

 

ive done that b4 mate,

 

just been to my local rfd and tried a few for fit etc

the one that felt the best (well to me) was a berretta 682 sporter (s/h) @ £700 wot do you think of these guns if you have had any experience with one??

[the last engineer]

682 682E 682E gold sporting, all good guns, the only gripe i had with this model around 5 years back was finishing quality, every gun i took off the shelf here had steel burrs and debris in the action, smacks of shody work, its a shame the gun is a great platform, a little overpriced i feel compared to other makes of equal quality though, now it seems they have it together again, the stock is good wood and well finished, the fit wood to steel good also, the barrels are in my opinion small in diameter this is a trate of Berreta why i dont know but there it is, most barrels in winney browning miroku all eqaul guns run around 738" dia plus up to a max (i've found) of 744" this does reduce felt recoil and (im told ) mechanicaly allow the choke's to function better, thats a matter ofopinion though, in saying that i do find shooting my brownings with larger bores is less fatigueing than my Berretas, they all run around .728" to .731" dia.

 

the gun your looking at should at 700 quid be in good condition i think, im sure you will have it checked out before purchase, good luck in your choice and let us know how you get on

 

 

Martin

[Lord Geordie]

I think it all depends on YOUR target aquisition rather than the "flat shooting gun"

 

I can line my beads up like a rifle pop the forbead on the target and take it out no probs moving or not.

 

I can also lower the *** of the gun so i can see the rib again find my target and drop it with ease.

 

I think your problem is you have most likely picked up a Bad habit stemming from rifles rather than shotties and THIS will contribute to the need to line it up with NO rib and hit the target central?? My gun had the 2 beads to line up but i knocked the middle bead off as it was causing more distraction than anything else and i found my shots IMPROVED when it was removed also as i wasn't relying on the lining up of the beads (wasting time) before taking a shot). It becomes natural to just pick the target up and your mind and body does the rest your upper body follows the target and your mind picks a point of kill and POW job done.

 

You SHOULD be able to put a Pound coin on the top of the chamber and STILL be able to see the forebead if your gun is correctly mounted. THIS is the way shotguns (generally) are designed to be shot ( you SHOULD see a small amount of the rib as well as your bead

 

Your using a technique i think is called rifleing and no doubt you stop swinging the gun also when the shot is fired??

 

I would say it's more a problem that PRACTICE will solve rather than blaming guns and wasting money trying out other that STILL may prove to be no use for the particular diciplin your using.

 

Practice Practice Practice is all i can say bud as i dont think it's the gun you need to change

 

Best of luck

 

LG

[varget]

i know what your saying

but ive got a hatsan escort now this gun shot low 40/60 so i raised the comb,it shot central. now i do see a bit of the rib and just like magic i shot better than ever b4, i dont even look at the bead it just happens

but i now want an o/u

[dunganick]

if your having to raise the comb then your idea of a flat shooting gun is different to me.

 

I was under the impression that it was a 60% high and 40% low, what you are suggesting would be the opposite.

 

despite shooting a very flat gun, i still hold under targets ever so slightly, so my gun does shoot high, as i believe it should.

[Gordon R]

If you can see any rib at all, your gun is shooting high. Your rib must not taper from the breech to the muzzle in a downward direction. This too, will shoot high.