Hopper Bopper Posted October 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 I assume you mean .17rimfire but I disagree. It depends entirely on the ground you are shooting and the range you are shooting at. most people think of fox shooting as 200yds out as a norm. In practice there are lots of people including me who shoot several a week and never get past 80-90-100yds we dont know where this chap is shooting or what ranges he expects to be shooting. I for one would rather an new FAC holder was out lamping with a WMR than a .223, The land I want to shoot on can offer some shots at 200 yds plus with safe back stops but i dont want to shoot beyond 150 max. I have shot 5 inch groups at 300 yards with .303 and it is damned hard work. I believe I know my limitations - not just the rifle and circumstances in which I hope to shoot.This is where i feel the 17 rem will come into play for a humane job, potentially lower ricochet issues and I dont want to be spending oodles on different rifles as time goes on. HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 4, 2012 Report Share Posted October 4, 2012 The land I want to shoot on can offer some shots at 200 yds plus with safe back stops but i dont want to shoot beyond 150 max. I have shot 5 inch groups at 300 yards with .303 and it is damned hard work. I believe I know my limitations - not just the rifle and circumstances in which I hope to shoot.This is where i feel the 17 rem will come into play for a humane job, potentially lower ricochet issues and I dont want to be spending oodles on different rifles as time goes on. HB I dont disgiuse my distrust of the .17's on here but there are many other suitable .17s for that sort of range the new Hornet varients might be right up your street?. The safety margin is only "marginal" i have had 17 ricochet and they seem to do it were a .22 might generally not and vice versa so dont give it any leeway its a safe shot or not - no middle ground for different calibres or different bullet choices in a given calibre though thats not to discount building in the extra factor for good measure- just ignoor it thereafter. .222 and .223 are all time classic foxers for good reason and the .22 Hornet aint existed longer than all of them for no reason (being the lowest power centrefire on HO guidence) might also work in your favour as a new applicant? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I assume you mean .17rimfire but I disagree. It depends entirely on the ground you are shooting and the range you are shooting at. nope I meant 17cf its uncommon you have little choice of guns ammo pretty much has to be hand loaded and no easier to get from a licensing perspective than a .22cf. The reason for not suggesting .22wmr as a dedicated fox caliber is its not on the home office guidance table and adds a complication to matters, you get into the rimfire dedicated for fox and thats unlikely to be a good first start on an initial application. Like you I know its perfectly capable as is the HMR in the right situation but it takes experience to know and get into those situations. I share your view of cf's and first grants but its down to need and more likely now mentoring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I dont disgiuse my distrust of the .17's on here but there are many other suitable .17s for that sort of range the new Hornet varients might be right up your street?. The safety margin is only "marginal" i have had 17 ricochet and they seem to do it were a .22 might generally not and vice versa so dont give it any leeway its a safe shot or not - no middle ground for different calibres or different bullet choices in a given calibre though thats not to discount building in the extra factor for good measure- just ignoor it thereafter. .222 and .223 are all time classic foxers for good reason and the .22 Hornet aint existed longer than all of them for no reason (being the lowest power centrefire on HO guidence) might also work in your favour as a new applicant? I wouldnt choose a 17hornet over a 17rem...but then I have a .222 for a reason! think we have gone a little off topic though and I am confused as to the OP's reason for wanting the WMR @OP is your biggest issue gaining the rifle you want because you have limited experience? If so I would say you are more likely to get a WMR with a 1B quarry condition of ground game and fox that you are of getting a .17 or .22 centre fire with Fox and Ground game. this depends entirely on your argument..sorry .... explanation of good reason If fox is your main reason I would say you will struggle to get a rimfire UNLESS you have a good story to back it up. one rilfe for fox and vermin, noise, urban proximity, less power for ground etc etc if vermin and fox is your reason that is different. lead with vermin and have fox for as and when you see one AT SENSIBLE RANGES. make sure you tell them the range you intend to use it rather than the other way round. if you have all the info and reasons set out in a logical manner and you make the FLO's job easy then there is rarely a problem. give him ball ache or make his (or her!) life difficult and expect to walking your ground with a catapult for several weeks and months! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wymberley Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 In addition to the sound information here, there's another idea that can often bring the FEO on to your side. Having explained both your reason and need for the application, including the quarry species and ranges involved together with your selected choice of rifle(s) to meet that need, as you offer the plate of Hobnobs just add, "naturally, I would welcome any advice that you may have that will help with my application". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hopper Bopper Posted October 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Again, very sound advice as i see it. I choose 17 rem as dedicated fox rifle with limited range for first grant. The idea behind the wmr is as suggested that i do have a capable tool IF i ever happen upon charlie and all conditions suit the safe shot. I was out earlier this year in a ladies back garden bopping hoppers with my pcp. I was soon visited by a beautiful vixen at 20 yards - perfect shot presentation etc. Obviously based on pcp - NO shot. I have had a dof 8 yards in front of me when popping crows with pcp. Again NO shot. So, with a wmr I believe I can pop the smaller quarry and IF the correct conditions present themselves I can then bag a ginger. The 17 rem would be taken out on dedicated fox hunts. Please keep the advice and opinions coming as I am learning a lot of new information. Many thanks HB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 whats limited in range about the 17rem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Look up the new .17 Hornet and try that, it will do both jobs. It's a little more expensive to run if you don't home load but that is something you can learn fairly easily. Even the old .22 Hornet will do the job really well and you'll find cheaper ammo and guns for that. In all fairness if you're out popping bunnies with a .22lr and a fox comes out at 20 yards just shoot it, at that range it won't go far. Especially if you double tap it with a semi auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 oh gawd double tapping foxes you been on that SAS wannabe course picking up the lingo again NJ at that range just stick one in the boiler room and it will be lights out. We had yet another with the hmr last night and it still amazes me how well it drops them close up. Would have been sub 50 yards last night and it looked pole axed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njc110381 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I know.. I read that back after I'd posted it and thought the same! I think I actually read the term in a foxing book and it does describe the method well. Apparently Robert Bucknell sticks three into them with the thought that two will hit the mark well and the third will just smash the fox up worse no matter where it hits so it's no bad thing! Makes sense in my eyes if it stops runners although I haven't done it for a long time as I now use a bolt action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 Talk of double tapping and ricochets gets pretty meaningless if you put the shot in the right place to start with, even with a .22lr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dekers Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I know.. I read that back after I'd posted it and thought the same! I think I actually read the term in a foxing book and it does describe the method well. Apparently Robert Bucknell sticks three into them with the thought that two will hit the mark well and the third will just smash the fox up worse no matter where it hits so it's no bad thing! Makes sense in my eyes if it stops runners although I haven't done it for a long time as I now use a bolt action. What on earth is that about? This will be the pull the trigger and hope method of shooting then? What happened to shot placement and consideration for the quarry, this sounds like a comment made by a paint baller who thinks he is Rambo! ONE shot is all you need to stop a fox, not several blasted in the general area! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 I hope it wasn't Mr Bucknell as I thought he made more sense than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 One shot is all it takes, two is a mistake, three a disgrace. BTW say limited Range in reference to any powder burner and you will end up with no grant. Do you homework- most shoot further than you can see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bewsher500 Posted October 6, 2012 Report Share Posted October 6, 2012 In all fairness if you're out popping bunnies with a .22lr and a fox comes out at 20 yards just shoot it, at that range it won't go far. Especially if you double tap it with a semi auto. there is only one place to shoot a fox at 20yds with a .22lr and that is between the eyes. chest shots and subsonics dont go together, you will be surprised how far they can go. i shot one at 23 yds between the eyes with the .22lr recently. lights out instantly. its feet never moved I shot one a while ago when a chest shot was the only option. probably 30yds and if I had not been on a golf course I would have lost it in the undergrowth as it made it about 20 yds up the fairway. It was dead on its feet but if you dont have the body to prove it you will never know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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