Case sizing issues? Or is something completely shagged?

[Beretta28g]

Right to set the scene, when i last zero'd my rifle i had problems with my group size, which is normally under 1'' opening out to 2-3''.

 

These were essentially the same loads as i have used previously with good effect, however they had one difference. Due to difficulties using my neck sizing die, all my previous cases, and therefore loads, had been full length sized, however i thought i had solved the problem with the die, so these cases were neck sized.

 

Whereas with the full length die its just one smooth stroke of the press, to get neck tension with the neck sizing die i was having to use CONSIDERABLE force and repeat the process multiple times to get a acceptable neck tension on the cases.

 

You can feel the difference when seating the bullet, with full length sizing there is some resistance, whereas with neck sizing you can do it with one finger.

 

Would this difference cause a problem?

 

I ask because tonight when stalking, i was in a high seat with a rock steady shooting position, and the crosshairs were firmly on the deers chest (at 60-70 yards) (heart lung area) and my first bullet went straight through its guts, and my next (using a very similar, if not the same point of aim) went through the ribcage, but quite far back destroying the liver.

 

Now obviously i wont be using the rifle again on live quarry till its sorted, but would differing neck tensions have this affect on the accuracy of the rounds?

 

Or is it more likley to be a underlying issue with the rifle?

 

 

Cheers

[sixhills 69]

Sorry stupid question but the brass you had put through you full lenght sizing die had you fireformed them before trying out the neck sizing die again as once you have stretched the full case using the nech sizing die wont work and may make your brass a right odd shape.

 

Neck sizing fireformed brass will make your loads slightly more accurate but from what you have described i think you have completely battered your brass and this is the reason why you can just push your bullets in so easy.

 

At them ranges the bullet should not react like that. To chech the gun put a box of factory ammo through it.

[stirky]

Is the neck die one with bushings ? if so check to see which is in the die.

 

Have you checked a before and after with micrometer ? and compare a sized case with each die ?

[Windknot]

Collet die right?

 

Yup, you need to feel the love when you're squeezing them down to size.

[cockercas]

are you asking weather consistent neck tension affects accuracy?

if you are then yes it dose.

[Beretta28g]

are you asking weather consistent neck tension affects accuracy?

if you are then yes it dose.

 

Baisically.

 

The brass has been used about 7 times, and although its been full length sized before, it was then fired then neck sized.

 

The Neck sizing die is a Lee Collet die. I am about 21 stone and have to put almost my full weight on the press to get it to close up.

[Amazed]

Even the measly hornet takes some welly with a collet die well the older cases do anyway. . Lol put a bar on it

[dicehorn]

I know nothing whatsoever about Lee dies etc. So am not aware of how much pressure one needs to exert to just neck resize. But to me, a neck sizing die (apart from pushing out the old primer) is used simply to contract the neck diameter by around 5 or 6 thou and therefore should be an efforless procedure.

 

Of the many calibres I reload, everyone can be neck sized using just the index finger - if I were in your shoes I would get something like the Redding Deluxe set which are not really expensive. Have you had the die apart and cleaned it - if you happen to use lube that can have a detrimental effect in clogging your die.

 

Not knocking your Lee die but surely they dont need that much pressure for such a simple task? Have you access to a Case Master or similar - the way your bullet is performing sounds as if your run out is many thou for it to perform as you describe.

[al4x]

It's your die setup, there is no way it should take that much effort, as said you are crunching your brass in some way. Go back to full length sizing for the moment and then practice with neck sizing on paper but the effort you are putting in suggests something is wrongly set up

[kent]

If anything takes a degree of force reloading - stop! Something is obviously wrong, i bet that brass wants chucking now coz you have most likely run it off centre or over worked it etc. After 7 firings it was near the end anyway.

 

Full length sizing so the bolt just closes ok is the way to go with std cases that headsize on the shoulder is the way forwards for all hunting as you should never get a hard bolt close for a second opertunity or finishing shot and longer range benchrest shooting (when getting your shots off in the most similar wind counts)

[cockercas]

I use the collet die and no pressure is needed to neck size even in the hornet so you have it set up wrong amazed. The brass sounds like its work hardened, so its new brass. Set up the collet die as per instructions. Sometimes they need the top of the die taking off and wd40 spraying in. Neck sizing is working to a thousand of an inch so to load .243 I neck down to .242. You gain nothing from making it tighter as the bullet just expands the neck.

[Imperfection]

Two things.

 

Try annealing the brass first-you'll find it resizes slightly easier and holds its new size better.

When resizing try twisting it 180 degrees in the press and doing it again.

 

I would hazzard a guess you're perhaps using PPU brass.I find its a bit more springy than other brands and tends to have a memory of its fired size.

[kent]

you wont staighten crooked brass good enough, idealy you looking at 002" max runout or less anealing is maybee not the best idea if your stuggling with basic level stuff presently. I aint a clue about these Lee collet type dies as i dont ever use them

[cockercas]

It is a case of new brass. Annealing won't be of much use now.

[Amazed]

I use the collet die and no pressure is needed to neck size even in the hornet so you have it set up wrong amazed. The brass sounds like its work hardened, so its new brass. Set up the collet die as per instructions. Sometimes they need the top of the die taking off and wd40 spraying in. Neck sizing is working to a thousand of an inch so to load .243 I neck down to .242. You gain nothing from making it tighter as the bullet just expands the neck.

 

I may have then but have no issues with accuracy.

 

Thanks Karl.

 

Just been reminded of the instructions lee collet dies take a minum of 25 lb of pressure to work.

Edited November 17, 2012 by Amazed

[cockercas]

Not a lot of pressure then on a foot long handle. I'd bet you would notice accuracy change above 150m. I had some brass that had been FLS by another member, the necks was way to tight and when you seated the bullet they went in slightly of centre, so little you could only tell by looking under a light at the neck of the brass, accuracy was still what you would call good .5inch at 100m but knowing that the rifle can do that @200m wasn't right. I sat and opened all the necks. Accuracy shrunk. You might aswell do it right or its not really worth doing at all.

Btw amazed are you neck sizing or full length sizing your brass?

[Amazed]

Hi pal. Am just neck sizing. I check 1 in 5 when they have been fired to see if the base of the case has swelled but on my 3 rd firing and no signs of swelling of case lengthening.

[Gobfish]

I had a similar problem with one of my dies some time ago, full bodyweight to size em, turned out that it wasn't lubed properly, when you lube the cases wipe the tiniest amount of lube into the neck of your case.... don't actually try to get lube in there, just scrape the case over the wet finger of your glove... barely enough to see it ..... lubes the sizer...... unfortunately ya gotta clean inside the neck of yer cases afterwards ......... oh and by the way the ones you've stretched by heaving on em...... they're scrap

[shooting charley]

Right to set the scene, when i last zero'd my rifle i had problems with my group size, which is normally under 1'' opening out to 2-3''.

 

These were essentially the same loads as i have used previously with good effect, however they had one difference. Due to difficulties using my neck sizing die, all my previous cases, and therefore loads, had been full length sized, however i thought i had solved the problem with the die, so these cases were neck sized.

 

Whereas with the full length die its just one smooth stroke of the press, to get neck tension with the neck sizing die i was having to use CONSIDERABLE force and repeat the process multiple times to get a acceptable neck tension on the cases.

 

You can feel the difference when seating the bullet, with full length sizing there is some resistance, whereas with neck sizing you can do it with one finger.

 

Would this difference cause a problem?

 

I ask because tonight when stalking, i was in a high seat with a rock steady shooting position, and the crosshairs were firmly on the deers chest (at 60-70 yards) (heart lung area) and my first bullet went straight through its guts, and my next (using a very similar, if not the same point of aim) went through the ribcage, but quite far back destroying the liver.

 

Now obviously i wont be using the rifle again on live quarry till its sorted, but would differing neck tensions have this affect on the accuracy of the rounds?

 

Or is it more likley to be a underlying issue with the rifle?

 

 

Cheers

 

You have the die set up incorrectly i would put money on it.

 

shootingcharley

[Kes]

I'm sorry, I may be wrong but the level of inaccuracy you have suggested cannot (in my view) be explained by your die problems.

Its more likely a coincidence of a banged scope and poor ammo. Re zero with factory and try a few home cooked ones after.

 

Full length re-sizing takes a bit of force but not neck sizing - I once badly set a lee die and used force and destroyed the die's threading - stick a brazil nut in your press and see how little force it takes on the handle to crush it.

[Beretta28g]

 

100 yards, Neck sized, A-max, 5 shots.

 

 

100 yards, Full length sizing, A-Max, 5 shots,

 

6.5x55

 

I'm sorry, I may be wrong but the level of inaccuracy you have suggested cannot (in my view) be explained by your die problems.

Its more likely a coincidence of a banged scope and poor ammo. Re zero with factory and try a few home cooked ones after.

 

Full length re-sizing takes a bit of force but not neck sizing - I once badly set a lee die and used force and destroyed the die's threading - stick a brazil nut in your press and see how little force it takes on the handle to crush it.

 

I wont cheers, id like to live, lol (severe nut allergy)

[Redgum]

Thats a serious accuracy issue and personally I would think the ammo must be seriously screwed to make that much differance and you would feel bolt pressure on cycling if the neck was crushed with the neck sizing die. Using a Lee collet die takes a certain amount of 'feel' but not loads of force. The best thing to do is run a few factory rnds through the rifle after a real good clean with a good copper solvent. As said earlier it sounds more like a scope or mount issue though. What rifle is it.

Ps the above posts came when I was writting this, thats not that bad grouping, needs a bit of tuning but not as bad as you first suggested.

Edited November 18, 2012 by Redgum

[Dougy]

You have no mention of having cases stuck in the resizer, this suprises me.

Using that much force going into the die must have a fair amound on the way back out

[Beretta28g]

They dont stick in the die, but i am fairly strong, lol!

 

 

The groups above are not with hunting ammunition, their AMAX, not interlocks. but it was to illerstrate a point.

 

Also i was shot with 18x mag, which when stalking i use 6x, as said it was the best group i could manage to prove a point.

[sixhills 69]

Hi I have just set my lee collet die up today and it took know pressure what so ever to size the neck if you go on ytube ther is a two part video of how to set it up and he also strips his to clean that maybe your trouble take a look

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