Ex layers v poults

[Mr pigeon]

Cheers scully advice much appreciated

[subsonicnat]

Poults for people who have the time to look after them: fresh birds you might say:;

Putting EX Lay birds down gives you a distinct disadvantage, they have been shot at before so will soon be off your patch very quickly::-)).

Put Ex layers with Poults and they will be off in a flash, they know the ropes the old birds:

Some keepers get rid of the old stock because of this problem,, they are stupid,but do know the sound of a gun all the same, watch them at the end of the season, running thorugh the guns and breaking back::

Your choice:

[scolopax]

A very experienced keeper told me to shoot any old cock birds that attach themselves to the poults, as they will lead the poults to stray. This was because we only have a small acreage and therefore all the boundaries are close by. Never did it to be honest, did not seem right to rifle pheasants on the ground. Some bird did stray early on but this was due more to the ****** hedge cutter than old pheasants!

 

We get poults, I would go for 200 poults over 400 ex layers. Never known anyone have great success with ex layers.

 

One tip for ex layers I was told of was to feed them laying pellets for at least a month from the same kind of feeder the game farm used, most cases this is Manola,s.

Edited December 7, 2012 by scolopax

[part timer]

Shooting old cocks that are still hanging around from last year seams crazy to me. They haven't wandered far have they haha.

We put down only polts on our shoot and they wander just as much if you don't keep dogging them back. A friend of mine puts down only ex-layers and swears by them but he is next to a large commercial shoot.

[Gamefarm]

as I posted earlier would u have 200 poults or 400 ex layers ?

If you are within the area we cover, then I may be able to do Poults, but not X lay, that said, I'm not on here looking for business, and you're best dealing with a local reputable supplier.

 

One tip for ex layers I was told of was to feed them laying pellets for at least a month from the same kind of feeder the game farm used, most cases this is Manola,s.

 

Most gamefarms are very quick to put the laying flock back on wheat after peak laying is over - no point in them feeding expensive rations between end of lay and selling them on, so chances are, anything supplied after mid June is off pellets, but the last sentence there is very sound advice, even more so for Poults - Always find out what type of feeders the supplier uses, and try and duplicate them in the release pen - Poults are not bright, and I have had customers lose poults within days of delivery because the birds did not recognise a new style/colour/type of feeder. 2 or 3 Manolas in the pen cured the problem instantly every time.

Sometimes even a change of pellet size is enough to stop them taking the food, so try and keep them on the same brand and size for at least the first few days. All boils down to working together with your supplier and planning the release. There's more to it than just having some geezer turn up and empty some crates into your pen, grab your cash and wave a cheery farewell.

[Mr pigeon]

Where u based mate I'm West Sussex/Hampshire ?!?

[wannabe_keeper]

Mr Pigeon, PM me and we can chat about this as i am in a similar situation to you as i'm setting up a shoot next year on 200 acres in West Sussex. I too am debating whether to get 200 poults or ex-layers. The obvious advantages of ex-layers are the cheaper feed costs as they can be fed straight onto wheat, and they are cheaper per bird (approx. £2/ex layer compared to £3.50/£4.00/poult). But having read everyones comments i am tending to lean more towards less poults than more of the ex layers! We have the benefit of being surrounded by shoots so should gain plenty of birds. We hope to shoot 6 days (1 to the landowner as rent, 1 to me for my labour and 4 sold to cover feed and birds costs) at £80 per gun, based on 6 guns per day shooting 30-50 birds and any surplus birds towards the end of the season we might arrange a walk round or 2.

 

Speak soon,

Harry

[malantone]

. We hope to shoot 6 days (1 to the landowner as rent, 1 to me for my labour and 4 sold to cover feed and birds costs) at £80 per gun, based on 6 guns per day shooting 30-50 birds and any surplus birds towards the end of the season we might arrange a walk round or 2.

 

Speak soon,

Harry

6 guns @ £80 each = £480 average 40 birds thats £12 a bird HEL THATS CHEAP SHOOTING

[wannabe_keeper]

Is it though for ex layers, not necessarily guaranteed, maybe walk one stand one? What would you suggest i charge?

[malantone]

Is it though for ex layers, not necessarily guaranteed, maybe walk one stand one? What would you suggest i charge?

dont feel that £12 per bird is enough to justify the work, or the cost of wheat and pellets, £480 x 4 = £1920 , with poults @ £4 x 200 =800 rearing pellets at god knows what , wheat at £260 a ton I think I`d be looking for £20, comercial driven days are £30 to £40 per bird so it`s not bad.

I`ve never dealt with X layers, but if you are surrounded by shoots and you are feeding your birds then the numbers should be stable ie. birds leaving and coming in.

[Ryan gun]

Have you not thought about putting some ducks out on your pond to supplement your losses of game birds just a thought

[al4x]

Is it though for ex layers, not necessarily guaranteed, maybe walk one stand one? What would you suggest i charge?

 

I didn't say anything to start but you have a few issues some of which will depend on the shoot. With those returns the numbers don't stack up you won't get that many days and shoot that many unless you really do well at drawing birds from neighboring shoots. 200 acres means you won't have many drives and I'd be surprised if you shoot 30 a day average for 6 days from that acreage and putting down 200 birds. With that in mind the cost is actually probably about right as its the level people won't go away too disappointed if the bag is 15, but believe me you will find it stressfull with 6 days, you might be best selling a couple of early ones and the rest later on when you know whats left. Personally I can't stand walk 1 stand 1 shoots lots of people with guns no dedicated beaters it really is only good for the person collecting the money.

[wannabe_keeper]

Would it be better to sell the days at 'pay per bird' then? There are already birds on the land this year and on a walk round day the owner had in November they shot 24, thats without putting any birds down and no feed at all. Its hard to put it into words as you haven't seen the land but it is literally surrounded by large shoots putting down 5,000 plus birds each. There is 5 'do-able' drives which are woodland blocks and shaws from 1 acre in size up to a 6 acre block. All the woodland is central or on the top side of the land with valleys leading down to a large reservoir on the southern boundary. There is an additional 1/2 acre bracken bank overgrowth, small undeveloped natural spring fed pond and we are planting 2 x 10 metre wide strips of maize along the barer shaws to create additional cover.

 

I was hoping to put down 250 ex-layers however the landowner has said he will pay to double whatever i put down so this could be 500 ex-layers or possibly 250/350 poults. Plus whatever we pull in from other shoots, i think selling 4 days giving expected bags of 30-50 reasonable for £80-£100. I would also have a day along with the landowner for his rent but the bag numbers here are less important as no-body is technically paying.

 

Harry

[scolopax]

Frankly, the reliance on 'pulling birds in from your neighbours' is a disgraceful attitude.

 

 

 

 

 

If you plan on 6 x 40 birds days, good return is 40%, so you will need to release 600 poults minimum.

Edited December 11, 2012 by scolopax

[Keeperchris]

Totally agree with scalpopax. Go for poults never heard good reports from ex layers. Personally I would not go whole hog in year 1 perhaps build ya pens big enough for your future optimum numbers and build up to it as you learn the ground and how the birds behave. Plant all the cover you can and start your woodland management as it will take a few years to come right. As the years progress you may be able to add a 5th and 6th day for example. This will be a big learning curve for u but on the days it goes well the satisfaction will be immense! Where I keeper is only 300 acres and we shoot 14 days so small shoots can work with a lot of hard work, careful management and most importantly the right ground and i have no large ahoots around me! Pm me if ya wanna chat about it.

[wannabe_keeper]

The attitude isn't to 'pull in birds from neighbours' but i cannot choose where the land is and of course i will benefit from a few of their birds but so be it.

So what should i do, not run a shoot there at all out of respect for neighbouring shoots? The whole shooting world is filled with shoots that gain and lose birds from/to other estates, and i think as long as i am actually putting some birds down and not just 'pulling' in their birds then there is no issue. I'm sure plenty of the birds i put down will disappear from my DIY set up on 200 acres to much grander estate anyway. In none of my posts did i portray that this was our attitude, it is merely in addition to providing our own stock.

[Keeperchris]

I am not questioning your ethics buddy just think it is dangerous to plan your returns including wandering birds from neighbouring shoots. Hope that makes sense. You are right birds that wander are a bit tit for tat u will have some of there's and they will have some of yours.

[wannabe_keeper]

No worries, i would never intentially do this as being brought up with keepers all my life i know that i would be a big no no to not put any birds down at all and just gain from other estates. By i would be naive to think i am not going to get some and can base my estimated numbers that will be shot on this fact. I think in the first year i will probably pay for and release 250 poults and if the landowner holds his end of the deal he will double that and pay for the additional amount.

 

In addition to this... say the birds were released at 10 weeks, how long from here would i need to feed them on rearer pellet before i can introduce a gradual switch to wheat?

 

Harry

[pontbeck]

Tit for Tat is OK.

What upsets me is setting up a wild bird shoot in the middle of several keeperd or DIY shoots

[wannabe_keeper]

I totally agree

[Keeperchris]

In my experience 10 week old poults are ******* to keep in the pens I would not have them later than 7/8 weeks that way they will settle a bit easier and will not be flying outta the pen every 5 minutes! Personally I feed mine on pellets until 12/13 weeks and gradually add wheat from there on. With the pellets phased out within about 3 weeks.

Edited December 11, 2012 by Keeperchris

[wannabe_keeper]

Okay cheers for the advice, i know its early but what are you guys looking to pay for poults at that age in 2013?

[Keeperchris]

I have been asking about the game farms our way and they all say expect a 10p per poult rise due to gas, feed, labour costs rising I would be expecting £3.70 + for small number orders.

[nipper]

In my experience 10 week old poults are ******* to keep in the pens I would not have them later than 7/8 weeks that way they will settle a bit easier and will not be flying outta the pen every 5 minutes! Personally I feed mine on pellets until 12/13 weeks and gradually add wheat from there on. With the pellets phased out within about 3 weeks.

 

+ 1 on that !

Spot on advice

[keeper1984]

hi guys

 

i work on a game farm and run a little shoot.

 

i myself had ex layes this year we put down 125.

 

we shot 24 on the only day we had so far. but there are alot more about but they are harder to keep on the shoot as we dont have any game cover just small hedge rows.

 

we reared 30,000 pheasants poults for other people they all said ' i tried ex layers once they all ******** off'

 

so guess it is poults !