gazzthompson Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Because, for the umpteenth time, if legal drugs are not sold as cheaply or are as easily available as black market drugs are then the illegal import and supply of drugs will continue. Given that one of your main planks for arguing for legalising drugs is that we can save £££ millions on policing and take the profits away from drug dealers, this proves what a total nonsense your argument is. Yes it will continue, It well never stop, The idea is to reduce it, not make it magically disappear. Your either intentionally misrepresenting my argument for your own sake, or just not reading it properly. We would do everything we do now, But not police or imprison users (Unless they are committing other crimes before somebody says something). Hence savings. Edited December 17, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 so are we now saying drugs will have their own aisle in Asda? Here we go again Please feel free to look back at previous comments for the answer to your question I wonder what could be causing your short term memory loss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Yes it will continue, It well never stop, The idea is to reduce it, not make it magically disappear. Your either intentionally misrepresenting my argument for your own sake, or just not reading it properly. We would do everything we do now, But not police or imprison users (Unless they are committing other crimes before somebody says something). Hence savings. We don't imprison users now. Read my posts, based on 25 years of law enforcement! All that happens is that they either get a slap on the wrist or are put on some crackpot scheme. So, if the black market on drugs will as you admit continue with all the costs of enforcement and the profits still being made by dealers where does that leave your assertion that the country will benefit? The portion of legal drugs will be tiny based on their cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drayman Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Just so I'm clear on the proposal for cannabis: 1. Cannabis will be supplied by the pharmaceutical industry. 2. The government will tax the supply from the industry. 3. They won't tax the black market supply. 4. There will be some mechanism where people can buy the product produced from the pharma industry but as yet unknown. 5. The supply of a drug from the pharma industry will have to fall under the medicines directive and will need a prescription. 6. THC levels will have to be defined and limited for the industry product. 7. Statute will have to be changed to decriminalise possession of small amounts. 8. International treaties will have to be changed or we will have to go against them in order to allow the sale of a narcotic. 9. DUI and safe limits will need to be defined. 10. Declaration of use may be required for motoring insurance and or other licences. 11. Minimum age of use needs to be set. Just trying to see where we've got to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Just so I'm clear on the proposal for cannabis: 1. Cannabis will be supplied by the pharmaceutical industry. 2. The government will tax the supply from the industry. 3. They won't tax the black market supply. 4. There will be some mechanism where people can buy the product produced from the pharma industry but as yet unknown. 5. The supply of a drug from the pharma industry will have to fall under the medicines directive and will need a prescription. 6. THC levels will have to be defined and limited for the industry product. 7. Statute will have to be changed to decriminalise possession of small amounts. 8. International treaties will have to be changed or we will have to go against them in order to allow the sale of a narcotic. 9. DUI and safe limits will need to be defined. 10. Declaration of use may be required for motoring insurance and or other licences. 11. Minimum age of use needs to be set. Just trying to see where we've got to. I would like to think all of the above Pretty much the same as the current system's for tobacco and alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 WVAM well said but there is only two on this thread that are saying what you have posted above,surely after reading it the way you have put it they will wake from there dream well written my fellow PW member lumpy no offence but surely you cant believe your own hype Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 and the failing in that plan is entirely down to medicines and their licensing, who is going to pay for the safety testing or are we saying they won't need to be licensed like every other mainstream drug? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 WVAM well said but there is only two on this thread that are saying what you have posted above,surely after reading it the way you have put it they will wake from there dream well written my fellow PW member lumpy no offence but surely you cant believe your own hype Maybe you saw something i did'nt but what i read was pretty much the same legislation's that already apply to some products that are already legal in this country. The fact remains that parliment have taken it seriously enough to call for a debate on the subject so it matters not what you think really ! Maybe in your infinate wisdom you could come up with a solution that actually works seeing as our current failing system has led to the use of recreational drugs more than doubling in the last 25 years. I look forward to hearing your solution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cottonseed Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 If the price is low enough there's no margin for dealers regardless of whether there is a tax element in the official price. Another aspect to legalisation is that it takes away the need for people to interact with drug dealers who have a vested interest in encouraging an escalation to harder drugs. The 'first one is free' scenario. I agree. Politicians are too greedy for the tax revenue they need to feed their vanity and pay for wars, social engineering and endless new statutes and IMO any attempt to market drugs--I mean cannabis rather than Class A drugs--would be doomed to failure on this basis alone. I used to agree with legalisation, but it won't work. The way forward is for the security serrvices to kill--yes, kill--anyone even suspected of being involved in the top-end of drug-trafficking and possibly it is too late for draconian measures as the worldwide corruption caused by drug money has gone too far--as we saw with HSBC and the documentation of CIA involvement in heroin-trafficking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pimpkiller Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 carrot and stick approach wont fail, you do good you are rewarded, you do bad you are punished. All legalizing drugs will do is cost tax payers money to set up then tax payers money will disappear into large companies bank accounts and out of the economy. meanwhile Mr druggy is puffing away at his drugs exactly like he did before and finding the money for it in exactly the same places as well. Thats my OPINION Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I look forward to hearing your solution i,ve already said what my solution would be and it would not be to legalise nor de-criminalise it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 I look forward to hearing your solution i,ve already said what my solution would be and it would not be to legalise nor de-criminalise it So charging everyone an extra £10 tax is the best you got LMAO and you say our theory is flawed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 So charging everyone an extra £10 tax is the best you got LMAO and you say our theory is flawed i would willingly pay it every week to put them in jail, but giving harsh sentences is the way forward and not putting them in holiday camps do you not understand that these scum cause communities so much hurt and misery nearly everyone if not all is affected by them, put them in jail with no ammenities at all and if it means paying more money out of my wages every week to do this to cover costs then i,m sure i will do it and so will many others, lumpy i really cant understand why you are so hell bent on wanting drugs available legally have you never been affected by these lowlife it seems to me you havn,t just speak to someone who has, don,t worry there are millions out there you can speak too who are sick to the back teeth that these scum just get a slapped wrist and 10 mins later are back down the towns stealing to supply their habbits its a joke bud to say decriminalise it or legalise it, as said it would not work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) We don't imprison users now. Read my posts, based on 25 years of law enforcement! This: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19942378 And this: http://www.homeoffic...drugs/drug-law/ Disagree with you, Though I should of defined sentenced rather than exclusive imprisonment. Just so I'm clear on the proposal for cannabis: 1. Cannabis will be supplied by the pharmaceutical industry. 2. The government will tax the supply from the industry. 3. They won't tax the black market supply. 4. There will be some mechanism where people can buy the product produced from the pharma industry but as yet unknown. 5. The supply of a drug from the pharma industry will have to fall under the medicines directive and will need a prescription. 6. THC levels will have to be defined and limited for the industry product. 7. Statute will have to be changed to decriminalise possession of small amounts. 8. International treaties will have to be changed or we will have to go against them in order to allow the sale of a narcotic. 9. DUI and safe limits will need to be defined. 10. Declaration of use may be required for motoring insurance and or other licences. 11. Minimum age of use needs to be set. Just trying to see where we've got to. Basically yes, Except 5. I would argue that the "softer" drugs be more on line with alcohol and tobacco and sold without prescription (given the appropriate age) . Cannabis, ecstasy, LSD , magic mushrooms etc. The "harder" stuff prescription based would probably be best , But i would leave that decision up to the scientists. Edited December 17, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungler Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) An interesting read. I can buy alcohol and get smashed every day but I and the majority of the population manage not to. The sale of alcohol is taxed, licensed and sales are restricted to over 18's The government could easily do the same for cannabis. Whatever your views in the rights and wrongs about drug regulation from Class C through to Class A is that the law and current government / regulatory approach doesn't work and has never worked. Repeating an approach that has never worked will end up with the same result ie failure. Something needs to give and change, but what I don't know. I'm fascinated about the amount of money associated with the illegal drugs trade - HSBC have happily ponied up a couple of billion in fines for laundering Mexican drug cartel money. That's fractions of fractions of what's going on globally. Edited December 17, 2012 by Mungler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 However, it does not call for the decriminalisation or legalisation of most drugs. why post the above because you are both dissagreeing with what they say :no: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 i would willingly pay it every week to put them in jail, but giving harsh sentences is the way forward and not putting them in holiday camps do you not understand that these scum cause communities so much hurt and misery nearly everyone if not all is affected by them, put them in jail with no ammenities at all and if it means paying more money out of my wages every week to do this to cover costs then i,m sure i will do it and so will many others, lumpy i really cant understand why you are so hell bent on wanting drugs available legally have you never been affected by these lowlife it seems to me you havn,t just speak to someone who has, don,t worry there are millions out there you can speak too who are sick to the back teeth that these scum just get a slapped wrist and 10 mins later are back down the towns stealing to supply their habbits its a joke bud to say decriminalise it or legalise it, as said it would not work I do hear what your saying and i would gladly pay the extra tenner if this would solve the problem however i feel that the majority of the public would'nt or could'nt. I am also very aware that people get affected every day in one way or another due to a failing system i just think that the best way to solve the problem is to take as much of the profit away from the dealers as possible, the only way to do this is to legalize it, sorry but thats my opinion ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 However, it does not call for the decriminalisation or legalisation of most drugs. why post the above because you are both dissagreeing with what they say :no: Neither of the recent reports call for decriminalisation or legalisation, but neither disagree with what i've said they call for scientific review into decriminalisation or legalisation. Whether that will happen or not , I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 (edited) Some more interesting aspects, A forgotten "front" of this "war" is central america (especially mexico) and it would seem they might have had enough! Uruguay plans to legalise marijuana under state monopoly: http://www.guardian....galise-cannabis Latin America is headed towards the decriminalization of drug possession: http://www.laht.com/...ategoryId=12394 Guatemala's president urges debate on drug legalisation: http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-17502417 Legalization gains support in Central America: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/americas/120301/drug-legalization-central-america-guatemala Disagree with me all you want, But the idea by some that only me and lumpy support this.... well... Edited December 17, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 Some more interesting aspects, A forgotten "front" of this "war" is central america (especially mexico) and it would seem they might have had enough! Uruguay plans to legalise marijuana under state monopoly: http://www.guardian....galise-cannabis Latin America is headed towards the decriminalization of drug possession: http://www.laht.com/...ategoryId=12394 Guatemala's president urges debate on drug legalisation: http://www.bbc.co.uk...merica-17502417 Legalization gains support in Central America: http://www.globalpos...erica-guatemala Disagree with me all you want, But the idea by some that only me and lumpy support this.... well... In the words of the great Dr Spock sometime the only logical solution is the illogical one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 my god ,,and look what happens in the states, you cant even go into some neighbourhoods after dark for fear of being robbed , well that will work wont it,,i know we all have our opinions and who am i to say how we can get this sorted but at least we are having a debate of what to do without a slanging match,, can i just say i do not agree with the amounts of people who are using drugs,it is a lot higher than has been stated so in all honesty it is probably costing more than what is being owned up to but i do think imo that the gov needs to stop giving money away to other countries and start looking at solving problems back home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 17, 2012 Report Share Posted December 17, 2012 i do think imo that the gov needs to stop giving money away to other countries and start looking at solving problems back home LOL dont get me started on immigration Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 The effects of Methamphetamine; http://www.rehabs.com/explore/meth-before-and-after-drugs/infographic.html Horrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 yup that page makes it fairly obvious why we should legalise it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 19, 2012 Report Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) disgusting, still support legalisation for the stated reasons. Off the streets, focus on rehab. All of these pictures are under our current system, seems to be working! Edited December 19, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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