Catweazle Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 There seems to be a lot of focus on tax, but that's not the real issue. The idea is that by supplying weed ( or other drugs ) at a prescription price we could prevent the crime that comes with addicts trying to raise cash for the next fix. After all, that's what really affects us, the crime, not whether some loser is sitting in his council flat stoned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 There seems to be a lot of focus on tax, but that's not the real issue. The idea is that by supplying weed ( or other drugs ) at a prescription price we could prevent the crime that comes with addicts trying to raise cash for the next fix. After all, that's what really affects us, the crime, not whether some loser is sitting in his council flat stoned. You will never completely prevent the crime aspect much the same as you wont with tobacco and alcohol but you will without a doubt reduce it which would be a massive improvement on the current system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 got to be honest but i have not had my mind changed at all,i still say hard jail and build more jail,s and put these people who are destroying communities through their vile acts away in them. we have got to sort it somehow because the country is being raped by these scum, i watched on tv yesterday a pensioner devastated because her house had been broken into, all the xmas presents stolen as well as her personal money and other items stolen. to watch her sobbing and saying she didn,t want to be here has only strengthened my opinion that when caught these SCUM should be put behind bars with nothing but food and water and made to pay for their crimes, drugs are devastating our communities and families, gone are the days when people could be trusted, its a shame but its now everyday life imo stick them in jail and make them pay for their crimes,dont send them into holiday camps , let them rot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) got to be honest but i have not had my mind changed at all,i still say hard jail and build more jail,s and put these people who are destroying communities through their vile acts away in them. we have got to sort it somehow because the country is being raped by these scum, i watched on tv yesterday a pensioner devastated because her house had been broken into, all the xmas presents stolen as well as her personal money and other items stolen. to watch her sobbing and saying she didn,t want to be here has only strengthened my opinion that when caught these SCUM should be put behind bars with nothing but food and water and made to pay for their crimes, drugs are devastating our communities and families, gone are the days when people could be trusted, its a shame but its now everyday life imo stick them in jail and make them pay for their crimes,dont send them into holiday camps , let them rot You've completely missed the point. By stopping the drug driven burglaries old ladies can live in peace and there will be enough room in prison to put the people who really need to be there. Edited December 20, 2012 by Catweazle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 so now we are expected to subsidise drug use by selling them at prescription prices come on please............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 so now we are expected to subsidise drug use by selling them at prescription prices come on please............... We (the taxpayer's) already pay for the drug trade ! by decriminalizing it the revenue created would be offset on the cost we currently have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) so now we are expected to subsidise drug use by selling them at prescription prices come on please............... They did it switzerland: http://www.swissinfo...tml?cid=5423558 You seem to be opposed to ideas based purely on emotion and ideology. Edited December 20, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 You seem to be opposed to ideas based purely on emotion and ideology. I would have said you were pro for exactly the same reasons, particularly the ideology Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I like something that works and is best for scoeity, I would support giving addicts hugs and flowers if it worked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wharf Rat Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) Heroin is available on prescription. According to HMRC the main effect of having to smuggle the filth is the rise in mark-up/profits for dealers. Most narcotics cost peanuts to produce in their country of origin. If someone can get of their head for next to nothing, then they are less likely to burgle my house to fund ther habit. www.tdpf.org.uk/Policy_Crime_DrugsandCrime-TheLinkisProhibition www.m-alliance.org.uk/about.html accessed 30/04/12 Edited December 20, 2012 by Wharf Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 They did it switzerland: http://www.swissinfo...tml?cid=5423558 You seem to be opposed to ideas based purely on emotion and ideology. Good article. This section is particularly relevant: "In Switzerland, the medicalisation of heroin use has helped change the image of users: from rebels to losers," Nordt said. "In the eyes of the young, they're mostly just sick people, forced to get medical help." Reduced consequences The harm reduction policy followed by the Swiss authorities has also been successful in reducing heroin-related deaths, which have fallen by more than half over the course of a decade, and the transmission of Aids. And there is more good news concerning the fight against crime and prostitution. "Compared with countries like Britain, where crime is very often linked to substance abuse, this trend has almost disappeared in Switzerland over the last few years," said Nordt. Nordt and Stohler's study does not however show that Switzerland has been more successful than other countries in improving the numbers of people who manage to leave drugs behind for good. "Personally, I don't think either a repressive or a liberal policy can do much to free a heroin user from addiction," Nordt said. "We can only decide whether to increase the suffering of drug victims or alleviate the consequences of addiction – for users and society alike." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamechef Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Just to qualify this, it was a joke. I didn't want the inevitable backlash from the pipe & slippers brigade, polished their SxS shotguns by a roaring fire of spaniel hair and twigs. omg...i laughed my **** off mate that was funny! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Its simple maths ! if you collect revenue from the people who would use legal outlets you would not only save resources from not having to police them people but you would create more resources to police the criminal element. Simple maths? You are talking complete tosh! I have demolished all your economic arguments. You are just clutching at straws with no sense of reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 The economic side of legalisation (one of the lesser important ones) is sound, hence Richard bransons interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 If this comes off, which I doubt, do you think the Government is going to supply the super skunk that's kicking about now.? Nope.......though not.. some people could grow there own like in holland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catweazle Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I have demolished all your economic arguments. In your dreams. How can you claim this without any figures on costs, revenue, money saved by the anti-social crimes like burglary and mugging etc. etc. The only thing we know for sure is that pushers and smugglers make a huge profit margin on selling drugs, which is why they continue to risk heavy jail terms. Many times we have seen reports of drugs costing £5000 in ( for example ) Mexico that have a street value of £100,000 here. That's a lot of profit margin, and that's why dealers are prepared to carry guns to protect their turf. Cut out the dealing scum, stop the turf wars, put in a regulated system with support for users, cut crime, free up prison space for people who we need protection from - it's all a win, if only you can get your head around the idea of trying something new. This is a circular thread now, not much point in continuing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 Simple maths? You are talking complete tosh! I have demolished all your economic arguments. You are just clutching at straws with no sense of reality. The only thing you have proved is you like to try and cause argument's ! Whether you agree with decriminalization or not is your opinion but to claim that it would not benefit the economy is utter nonsense, as stated over 1 million tourist's per year go to holland just for cannabis and is the main reason the dutch decided not to reform there drug policy, clearly they know (not think) that without this tourism it would have a huge impact on their economy. As much as i enjoy your clown like comment's maybe you should take them to your own thread complete with squeaky nose's and big red shiny boot's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't think anyone has yet recognised that the street price of illegal drugs is a factor of a risk/reward equation and market retention. This is in stark contrast to the way in which the price in a legal market would be created. This would be a factor of cost of production and government policy. Cost of production is known to be low so provided the government policy is correctly created there wouldn't be a price point at which the criminal dealer could compete whilst still factoring his risk. The upshot being all but the stupid dealers leave the market relatively quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 In your dreams. How can you claim this without any figures on costs, revenue, money saved by the anti-social crimes like burglary and mugging etc. etc. The only thing we know for sure is that pushers and smugglers make a huge profit margin on selling drugs, which is why they continue to risk heavy jail terms. Many times we have seen reports of drugs costing £5000 in ( for example ) Mexico that have a street value of £100,000 here. That's a lot of profit margin, and that's why dealers are prepared to carry guns to protect their turf. Cut out the dealing scum, stop the turf wars, put in a regulated system with support for users, cut crime, free up prison space for people who we need protection from - it's all a win, if only you can get your head around the idea of trying something new. This is a circular thread now, not much point in continuing. and how on this earth are we going to do that ? so to cut out the dealing scum as quoted how can we achieve this,because you dont want to put them in prison,people are in prison for a reason and should serve their sentence to the full, i know some are in for petty crimes but they are there because they are repeat offenders who are commiting these crimes because they are drug users and cant afford to support their habbits so what makes you all think they can afford to buy it off a legally run drugs den, doesn,t add up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lumpy Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 and how on this earth are we going to do that ? so to cut out the dealing scum as quoted how can we achieve this,because you dont want to put them in prison,people are in prison for a reason and should serve their sentence to the full, i know some are in for petty crimes but they are there because they are repeat offenders who are commiting these crimes because they are drug users and cant afford to support their habbits so what makes you all think they can afford to buy it off a legally run drugs den, doesn,t add up Mate the business model is proven to work in other countries ! what makes you think it wont work here ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 We have gone full circle on most arguments now. The points are there, disagree all you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 I don't think anyone has yet recognised that the street price of illegal drugs is a factor of a risk/reward equation and market retention. This is in stark contrast to the way in which the price in a legal market would be created. This would be a factor of cost of production and government policy. Cost of production is known to be low so provided the government policy is correctly created there wouldn't be a price point at which the criminal dealer could compete whilst still factoring his risk. The upshot being all but the stupid dealers leave the market relatively quickly. the concept of the government making drugs cheaper and more freely available is frankly ludicrous. Look at the levels of tax on cigarettes, alcohol and petrol there is no way on this earth that the government is going to start pushing sorry selling heroin at half the current market value. Which means people will still need to find the money to buy drugs and as we all know holding a job down while on the heavy stuff isn't really an option ergo crime will stay as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 the concept of the government making drugs cheaper and more freely available is frankly ludicrous. Look at the levels of tax on cigarettes, alcohol and petrol there is no way on this earth that the government is going to start pushing sorry selling heroin at half the current market value. Which means people will still need to find the money to buy drugs and as we all know holding a job down while on the heavy stuff isn't really an option ergo crime will stay as it is. theres a lot of wealthy and fully employed drug addicts out there they are not all on benefits think about all that coke they do in the city Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 there are an awful lot who aren't though and yes you can tax the bankers and estate agents and make something out of their coke habit but they are the thin end of the wedge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 20, 2012 Report Share Posted December 20, 2012 (edited) there are an awful lot who aren't though and yes you can tax the bankers and estate agents and make something out of their coke habit but they are the thin end of the wedge. your kidding you dont believe the billions made in the drug trade comes from giros and petty crime, i would guess the working man is the best customer Edited December 20, 2012 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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