martyn2233 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I had more movement this morning at about 7.30am you sure you don't smoke it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cumbrian shooter Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't think you understand the arguments for legalisation. Its not suggesting a free for all drug use whistle dancing in money, i cant be bothered to say them again. And i hate the kids argument, State shouldn't be involved because of bad parenting. i understand what ur saying gaz but im just not for it, u cant parent kids all the time they make there own choices in life at somepoint, but having canabis readily available and LEGAL will only encourage people to do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't believe it will encourage people to do it. You can still promote with education the damages of these drugs ( like with tobacco ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martyn2233 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 i understand what ur saying gaz but im just not for it, u cant parent kids all the time they make there own choices in life at somepoint, but having canabis readily available and LEGAL will only encourage people to do it! not always goes that way but can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Ah yes, the "crack" down argument. Has that ever worked in any country ever? The argument falls on its *** when you admit we are getting soft on drugs and usage is falling. Seems soft works! Yes, yes it has. Here we go...from your favourite paper too, so it must be right. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jun/05/singapore-policy-drugs-bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al4x Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I don't believe it will encourage people to do it. You can still promote with education the damages of these drugs ( like with tobacco ) so you reckon education will put them off more than getting a criminal record, no chance once its legal it would be far more available people would be able to smoke it anywhere you only have to look towards Holland tolerating its use hasn't exactly reduced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 so you reckon education will put them off more than getting a criminal record, no chance once its legal it would be far more available people would be able to smoke it anywhere you only have to look towards Holland tolerating its use hasn't exactly reduced it. I read in todays paper that the Hollanders have so many children turning up at school "stoned" that they are to introduce new laws to ban smoking the stuff in schools and and the like. And to think that some in this country hold Holland's drug laws in such high esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 well said mate ive seen what drugs do to people and im totaly and utterly against the insane thought of legalising cannabis! its a joke that people on this forum think its ok to have it made legal! WHAT ON EARTH are you people thinking! It will damage this country even more than it is already. Harking back to the good old days?! Given that the empire was built by chronic opium users I'm not sure drug use can be linked with so called 'decline'. As ever I also don't buy the 'country is going to the dogs' argument either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inca Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 wouldnt fancy a bunch of stoned people playing with firearms.. supervised or holder lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rimmie Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I was a heavy weed smoker for years, from about 14-21 (im 26 now) I started off smoking "solid" (hash) for a few years and "skunk" would only come about every so often. It was a bit of a treat, now days all there is is skunk and its VERY strong !!! There are some ridiculously strong strains avalible now days. Some of my friends have been to Amsterdam and they recognised at least 5 strains that were the same as over here !!!!!! And the same quality !!!! So my point is if youngsters now days are growing up smoking very strong strains of weed and smoking them for years IT DOES AND WILL MESS WITH THERE HEADS !!! I stopped because I was having very bad panic attacks and had bad depression. I haven't touched it since and can see now it was making me very ill, I had to go and see a shrink and he said he was seeing more and more patients with heavy cannabis use. Your brain especially a growing young brain cannot cope with being clouded with these powerful toxins for years at a time. Will you go made for smoking a joint or 2 every now and then or at a party ? Well no but with heavy use it can and does cause major problems !!!!!!! Please don't judge me on my past, I used to hang around with some very nasty, dangerous people where getting a kilo of very strong weed was not a problem. Now days I have a very good job a lovely miss's and love my shooting. Thanks for letting me get that of my chest. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 wouldnt fancy a bunch of stoned people playing with firearms.. supervised or holder lol how about some drunks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 The aim isn't to stop anything you mentioned, That's never going to happen, Its to reduce it (And save billions, and increase civil liberties). No it won't save anything. that is rubbish peddled to make legalisation seem plausible. I've already told you why. And as for civil liberties; don't you understand the basis of laws in society? If everyone could do as they pleased it would be anarchy. If you want to change the law, lobby your MP and stop banging on about it on shooting and fishing forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Yes, yes it has. Here we go...from your favourite paper too, so it must be right. http://www.guardian....olicy-drugs-bay Don't have a Favourite paper, BBC being favourite news source tho. Interesting concept, They seem to have liberal approach to users (as i suggest) But a (very) hard approach to traffickers. Sounds good to me! Though i don't condone capital punishment in any form, Our police can tackle the real problem (illegal black market) rather than non violent drug users. so you reckon education will put them off more than getting a criminal record, no chance once its legal it would be far more available people would be able to smoke it anywhere you only have to look towards Holland tolerating its use hasn't exactly reduced it. Education and parenting? yes. I believe most substance abuse (Alcohol included) comes down to poor parenting, and its not the states place to take control. As for Netherlands: http://www.nationalp...html?id=2188397 wouldnt fancy a bunch of stoned people playing with firearms.. supervised or holder lol Me neither! or a drunk! No it won't save anything. that is rubbish peddled to make legalisation seem plausible. I've already told you why. And as for civil liberties; don't you understand the basis of laws in society? If everyone could do as they pleased it would be anarchy. If you want to change the law, lobby your MP and stop banging on about it on shooting and fishing forums. everyone could do as they pleased it would be anarchy. If you want to change the law, lobby your MP and stop banging on about it on shooting and fishing forums. Already contacted my MP and will do again once this movement picks up more steam (Which it is). I Understand the basis of law in society, I value private citizens freedoms at the up-most however. . And this is "off-topic" forum, Dont read the thread if your not interested, its important news. Edited December 13, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Don't have a Favourite paper, BBC being favourite news source tho. Interesting concept, They seem to have liberal approach to users (as i suggest) But a (very) hard approach to traffickers. Sounds good to me! Though i don't condone capital punishment in any form, Our police can tackle the real problem (illegal black market) rather than non violent drug users. No, you're missing my point. Cannabis abusers in the UK .....8.2%. Cannabis abusers in Singapore.....0.005%. Quite a difference eh? Now I'm no expert on the subject, but I would suggest that the harsh deterrents, as opposed to legalising cannabis, has played a part in this. The liberal approach to users only lasts so long. I would also suggest that their rigorous education programmes plays a part. I can't see then how legalising cannabis over here would be sending out a positive educational message? Perhaps you could explain? The BBC?......Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 what would jesus do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) I am perfectly getting, it said in the article. The harsh punishment is on the traffickers, I have no problems with this (Though i dont agree with capital punishment.) and the users are subject to "high-profile public education campaign, treatment and rehabilitation" Sounds good to me! and its easy "Drugs are bad, will **** you up, but like alcohol use it reasonably or your an idiot and will get ****** over" Words to that effect. And yeah i like the BBC... What else is there? what would jesus do? what would optimus prime do? Edited December 13, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paddy Galore! Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 what would optimus prime do? he'd kick your drug addled backside from here to the moon if he caught you smoking weed IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poontang Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I am perfectly getting, it said in the article. The harsh punishment is on the traffickers, I have no problems with this (Though i dont agree with capital punishment.) and the users are subject to "high-profile public education campaign, treatment and rehabilitation" Sounds good to me! I think you'll find deterrents for users pretty harsh too. http://goseasia.about.com/od/singapore/a/Singapore-Drug-Laws.htm Still sound good to you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guest1957 Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Strange thing is that the draconian drugs laws in the far east don't work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Let's just bust some myths shall we? They say that legalising cannabis will result in £££ millions being saved, but they don't say how. They also claim that it will reduce the burden on the NHS caused by toxins found in some strains of cannabis. But to do that they would have to eliminate the illegal growing and importing of cannabis. That entails continuing to enforce drug control in the same way we do now. So no saving there. To be able to tax cannabis they would have to make and sell it cheaper than they can grow or import it. If it is not cheaper to by legal cannabis then the black market will continue to flourish as it does with alcohol, and toxic cannabis will still find its way into users as it does today. Just as we will see an increase in the booze cruises to France when the new taxes on alcohol come into force. Just as Danes take booze cruises to Germany to avoid high alcohol taxes. The NHS will still be treating the self-inflicted heroin and crack users and kids will still be able to by Ketamine at a fiver a bag on the streets and eventually suffer from incontinence and muscle wasting diseases thus increasing the NHS burden. By making claims that the State will save £££ millions it will sway some people to accept the new proposals. The argument does not stack up. Next time someone tells you that the country will make money out of legalising drugs, ask them how? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) Its certainly interesting, Though it conflicts with the guarding article which is somewhat confusing. The emphasis of "harsh" punishment still seems to be on traffickers Which as i said i have no problem with (Except capital) . Ill definitely read into more. In the mean time we have the US (not so much now in some states) and our own country to show how it fails, And Netherlands and Portugal and our current liberalising of drugs coupled with lower and lower usage rates to show the complete opposite. With such conflicting data maybe it is all down to culture and bad parenting/education as i said. Edited December 13, 2012 by gazzthompson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gazzthompson Posted December 13, 2012 Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 Let's just bust some myths shall we? They say that legalising cannabis will result in £££ millions being saved, but they don't say how. They also claim that it will reduce the burden on the NHS caused by toxins found in some strains of cannabis. But to do that they would have to eliminate the illegal growing and importing of cannabis. That entails continuing to enforce drug control in the same way we do now. So no saving there. To be able to tax cannabis they would have to make and sell it cheaper than they can grow or import it. If it is not cheaper to by legal cannabis then the black market will continue to flourish as it does with alcohol, and toxic cannabis will still find its way into users as it does today. Just as we will see an increase in the booze cruises to France when the new taxes on alcohol come into force. Just as Danes take booze cruises to Germany to avoid high alcohol taxes. The NHS will still be treating the self-inflicted heroin and crack users and kids will still be able to by Ketamine at a fiver a bag on the streets and eventually suffer from incontinence and muscle wasting diseases thus increasing the NHS burden. By making claims that the State will save £££ millions it will sway some people to accept the new proposals. The argument does not stack up. Next time someone tells you that the country will make money out of legalising drugs, ask them how? The millions saved in legalising (well, At least decriminalising) drugs, Not just cannabis, Will be saved from the current millions (if not billions) of £'s associated with imprisonment of non violent drug users, Thats very clear (even if you dont agree with it) so no idea why you state that "we" "don't say how". The drug enforcement would focus on illegal trafficking (as we do now) but not users, So there is the saving. Not the same as now. Yes we would have to meet or atleast undercut the criminal market in costs (Could you source the flurishing alcohol black market? Ive personal heard of no such thing, Would be interesting to read). The same is for other drugs, Cannabis will be more difficult than other drugs to do this. The NHS will still have to treat OD's yes, As they do now. If we take portugals example though heroin use fell and rehab was up, so compared to now we would be treating LESS (hence more money saved!) The argument stacks up simply with decriminalization and the cost of imprisonment before you ever factor in tax . You might not agree with the arguments, But don't just ignore them when they have already been presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think you'll find deterrents for users pretty harsh too. http://goseasia.abou...e-Drug-Laws.htm Still sound good to you? poontang,what a great read,,thanks for posting,just shows you how it can be sorted and thats without taxing the stuff,,,now that proves their system works, better to do that than tax it and legalise it ( insane statement ) well all i can say is that " if britain was to legalise the stuff then SINGAPORE HERE WE COME " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 gazzthompson and lumpy,,, do you both really believe what your saying ,,because if you both do then no offence chaps but if you both dont smoke the stuff then i seriously think you both have some other form of mental disorder,,hope you can get it sorted but if your unsure of where to get help then maybe a boxing gym may help you out,,at least then you can both take your anger out on a punchbag instead of the majority of people on here that dissagree with you both hope you can both get your issues sorted lads, good luck with your failing movement also ,,dulcolax works well,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evo Posted December 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted December 13, 2012 (edited) The millions saved in legalising (well, At least decriminalising) drugs, Not just cannabis, Will be saved from the current millions (if not billions) of £'s associated with imprisonment of non violent drug users, so what your saying gazz is ,,if a drug user was to break into your home and steal some stuff to sell to supply his habbit you would not want him jailed,,sorry but i would. just because he or she is non violent and on drugs should not mean that they dont feel the full wrath of the law,it is a snowballing effect from this that costs money,ie,insurance costs,police costs,etc from the afftermath of the breakin i am amazed at how you think legalising drugs will ever work, it never will Edited December 13, 2012 by evo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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