American gun laws

[Breastman]

The 2nd amendment was implemented in 1791. The guns back then (muzzle loading flintlocks or whatever) were a far cry from today's automatic assault rifles.

 

I'm no fan of TOO strict gun control, and hold both FAC and SGC, but I've never had a desire or need to own an M16, AK47 or the like, its not necessary unless you want to indiscriminately hose something or someone with bullets.

 

I don't know if you're intentionally trolling or what but US civilians cannot buy an assault rifle willy-nilly, its virtually the same as someone getting a Section 5 gun over here. They're mainly restricted to dealers (And Police/military). If you're using the factually incorrect wording of an 'assault weapon' i.e. something that LOOKS like a military gun but cannot function like one then i suggest you watch this;

 

 

A built-it yourself super car kit might look like a Porsche, but it can't perform like a Porsche

[margun]

If you're using the factually incorrect wording of an 'assault weapon'

 

They're talking of re-instating a previously expired 'assault weapons' ban, then surely 'assault weapons' are the target of this legislation? And no I'm not trolling, I can't see how a piece of legislation written over 200 years ago can possibly be used in context to modern guns - not trying to re-ignite the debate that's been held here many times before, but IMHO assault weapons (including lookalikes) attract the Walter Mitty brigade more so than other (e.g. hunting/historic) guns.

 

The amount of US gun massacres in the last few years is chilling and I don't think you'll find many reasonable people out there who don't think they need tougher gun controls.

[Scully]

They're talking of re-instating a previously expired 'assault weapons' ban, then surely 'assault weapons' are the target of this legislation? And no I'm not trolling, I can't see how a piece of legislation written over 200 years ago can possibly be used in context to modern guns - not trying to re-ignite the debate that's been held here many times before, but IMHO assault weapons (including lookalikes) attract the Walter Mitty brigade more so than other (e.g. hunting/historic) guns.

 

The amount of US gun massacres in the last few years is chilling and I don't think you'll find many reasonable people out there who don't think they need tougher gun controls.

What legislation are you referring to,and what has an assault weapons ban got to do with the recent shootings in Conneticut?The shootings were carried out with a handgun,so how will an assault weapons ban do anything to prevent this happening again?

[shakari]

I have a fair number of American clients/friends and from what they tell me, I reckon Obama will have a hell of a job getting ANY firearm restricting legislation through and even if he does manage it, he'll have an even harder job getting the firearms away from the owners...... and even if he does manage it, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff it won't stop a single atrocity happening.

 

Let's face it, even if all the guns disappeared tomorrow, there's plenty of other ways to wreak equal or even worse damage.

[overandunder2012]

What legislation are you referring to,and what has an assault weapons ban got to do with the recent shootings in Conneticut?The shootings were carried out with a handgun,so how will an assault weapons ban do anything to prevent this happening again?

 

i heard it was a "long gun" riffle

[JonathanL]

There are well over 100,000 deaths from firearms in America each year including accidents and suicides. The biggest death toll of cop deaths each year is by other cops. The chances of being accidently shot by a police officer is greater than the chance of being shot by an intruder in your own home and if you do get unlucky and die in a gun related homicide the chances are you will be killed by somebody you are related to unless you have served a term in prision or are addicted to an illegal substance.

 

Another gruesome fact, if you die in a gun related suicide its 70% likely you will take more than two hours to die, many take days.

 

YUK! Would you want to live in this world. I am one of the greatest opponents of gun controls. I am also a regular visitor (and shooter) to America but their gun laws are weird. My friend Jim who lived in Nebraska (he died last year) slept every night with a loaded gun in his bedside drawer for the whole of his life. So did/does every one of his neighbours. But nobody can ever remember a single incident or problem in his sleepy little town ever. Its safer than here, they don't lock their cars and rarely lock their doors. When I went to visit Jim, people came up to me and said welcome. They knew who I was, it was a very small town.

 

There aren't 100,000 firearms deaths a year in the USA. It's about 30K.

 

Over 50% of shooting fatalities are due to suicide. The number of accidental fatalities each year in the US is under 800 (I think it was about 650 for the last year on record but I don't have the figure to hand. In 2007 the number of under 13 year olds who were accidentally shot and killed was 53, I think.

 

There are over 30K accidental road deaths in the US each year which makes motor vehicles thousands of times more dangerous than firearms. Of all of the products which have the potential to cause serious personal harm in normal use, firearms must rank as one of, if not the, safest available.

 

J.

Edited December 18, 2012 by JonathanL

[JonathanL]

Over 50% of shooting fatalities are due to suicide. The number of accidental fatalities each year in the US is under 800 (I think it was about 650 for the last year on record but I don't have the figure to hand. In 2007 the number of under 13 year olds who were accidentally shot and killed was 53, I think.

 

There are over 30K accidental road deaths in the US each year which makes motor vehicles thousands of times more dangerous than firearms. Of all of the products which have the potential to cause serious personal harm in normal use, firearms must rank as one of, if not the, safest available.

 

J.

The 2nd amendment was implemented in 1791. The guns back then (muzzle loading flintlocks or whatever) were a far cry from today's automatic assault rifles.

 

I'm no fan of TOO strict gun control, and hold both FAC and SGC, but I've never had a desire or need to own an M16, AK47 or the like, its not necessary unless you want to indiscriminately hose something or someone with bullets.

 

The second amendment specifically protects the right to own military weapons though. The courts have said this. Back in the 1930's a case of a short barelled shotgun came before the courts. The court held that it wasn't protected by the SA because it wasn't a weapon which would be used by the military.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I don't know if you're intentionally trolling or what but US civilians cannot buy an assault rifle willy-nilly, its virtually the same as someone getting a Section 5 gun over here. They're mainly restricted to dealers (And Police/military). If you're using the factually incorrect wording of an 'assault weapon' i.e. something that LOOKS like a military gun but cannot function like one then i suggest you watch this;

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjM9fcEzSJ0

 

A built-it yourself super car kit might look like a Porsche, but it can't perform like a Porsche

 

Full-auto firearms are allowed in most states but the rules vary. It isn't as strict as getting a sec.5 here but is still pretty strict. It's more akin to getting an FAC but you have to get authority from local law enforcement as well as the FBI. The big difference is that the number of full auto guns available to civilians to own is fixed to ones registered before May 1986

 

J.

[JonathanL]

What legislation are you referring to,and what has an assault weapons ban got to do with the recent shootings in Conneticut?The shootings were carried out with a handgun,so how will an assault weapons ban do anything to prevent this happening again?

 

The term was simply invented for the Act which expired in 2004. It has nothing else to do with any actual firearms related terminology. Basically if it's mag held more than 10 rounds along with a few other cosmetic variables.

 

The Connecticut shootings were mostly done with the Bushmaster rifle, as far as I'm aware.

 

J.

[JonathanL]

I have a fair number of American clients/friends and from what they tell me, I reckon Obama will have a hell of a job getting ANY firearm restricting legislation through and even if he does manage it, he'll have an even harder job getting the firearms away from the owners...... and even if he does manage it, I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the brown stuff it won't stop a single atrocity happening.

 

Let's face it, even if all the guns disappeared tomorrow, there's plenty of other ways to wreak equal or even worse damage.

 

I think that Obama realises far more than most people as to what can and cannot be done. He's never made a big thing of banning guns and is too bright to wade in promising stuff he knows he can't deliver. To be honest, I think he actually is a supporter of the Second Amendment. I think he's even said that.

 

J.

[HDAV]

 

 

Do you have a figure on fatal firearms accidents in the USA?

 

J.

Yes posted a link to them they were from the CDC website stats around 600 iirc

[Breastman]

They're talking of re-instating a previously expired 'assault weapons' ban, then surely 'assault weapons' are the target of this legislation? And no I'm not trolling, I can't see how a piece of legislation written over 200 years ago can possibly be used in context to modern guns - not trying to re-ignite the debate that's been held here many times before, but IMHO assault weapons (including lookalikes) attract the Walter Mitty brigade more so than other (e.g. hunting/historic) guns.

 

The amount of US gun massacres in the last few years is chilling and I don't think you'll find many reasonable people out there who don't think they need tougher gun controls.

 

What has the age of the piece of legislation got to do with anything?? Generally if a piece of legislation has lasted a long time its an indicator that its good law. Personally i think its a good thing that i have to be tried by a court if i'm accused of breaking the law of the land, rather than just Queen Elizabeth or some other 'noble' person deciding whether i'm guilty or not, and that legislation is 800 years old!

[HDAV]

 

 

Trust me, if you'd ever lived in a high crime society, you wouldn't feel that way. I always had a holster fixed to the underside of my bedside table and my .40 S&W went in there as soon as I went to bed.

How many times did you have to shoot a burglar? How many times were you burgled?

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

Yes posted a link to them they were from the CDC website stats around 600 iirc

 

The was, understandably given recent events in Connecticut, a hot topic. The the figures I saw were the average number of gun-related deaths in the US each year is closer to 30,000+, whereas in the UK it's 34.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Lock Stock & Barrel

[HDAV]

 

 

The was, understandably given recent events in Connecticut, a hot topic. The the figures I saw were the average number of gun-related deaths in the US each year is closer to 30,000+, whereas in the UK it's 34.

600 is the number of accidental deaths, total is 34,000 and includes suicides

[Paxtond]

i think most of you are missing the NRA'S point of view, most agree that a AWB wouldn't be the end of the world but the problem is the government is full of liars and scammers.

 

you give them a inch they take a mile

 

same as here, we put up so little fuss after hungerford with our AWB that when they wanted to ban pistols they knew they would come up against minimal resistance

 

if the uk NRA or bass put in half the effort the US NRA do we would still be shooting semi autos, hand guns and also high cap shotguns on SGC

 

the 2nd amendment give the right to bear arms to protect yourself, that includes protect yourself from a apperceive government

Edited December 18, 2012 by Paxtond

[ordnance]

The was, understandably given recent events in Connecticut, a hot topic. The the figures I saw were the average number of gun-related deaths in the US each year is closer to 30,000+, whereas in the UK it's 34

 

 

America is the gun violence capital of the world. According to FBI crime statistics, there were 9,146 murders by firearm in 2009.

 

I think you are exaggerating a bit.

[HDAV]

 

I think you are exaggerating a bit.

 

 

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).

 

 

From a link I already posted.... Lies, damn lies and statistics

Edited December 18, 2012 by HDAV

[Dr_Scholl]

i heard it was a "long gun" riffle

 

He used a Bushmaster AR-15 as his primary weapon. He also had a 10mm Glock (he used it to kill himself), and a Sig 9mm that he never fired.

 

Politicians are doing their hardest to demonize the AR-15, but banning it is pretty much impossible. It's literally the most popular rifle in the country.

[ordnance]

In the U.S. for 2010, there were 31,513 deaths from firearms, distributed as follows by mode of death: Suicide 19,308; Homicide 11,015; Accident 600. This makes firearms injuries one of the top ten causes of death in the U.S. The number of firearms-related injuries in the U.S., both fatal and non-fatal, increased through 1993, declined to 1999, and has remained relatively constant since. However, firearms injuries remain a leading cause of death in the U.S., particularly among youth (CDC, 2001) (Sherry et al, 2012).

 

 

From a link I already

 

 

 

I am not sure were you are getting your figures from. I will go with the figures from the FBI.

 

FBI. Stats This FBI table

[HDAV]

I am not sure were you are getting your figures from. I will go with the figures from the FBI.

 

FBI. Stats This FBI table

 

FBI stats are murder only, the Suicide rate is the biggest component of gun deaths. Says far more about the provision of mental health facilities. More Americans kill themselves every year with a gun than by others.

 

Try page 5 here:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/Final%20Resource%20Book%20Updated%202009%20Section%201.pdf'>http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/Final%20Resource%20Book%20Updated%202009%20Section%201.pdf

 

And page 7:

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/ficap/resourcebook/Final%20Resource%20Book%20Updated%202009%20Section%201.pdf

 

Louisiana is the highest and Connecticut one of the lowest....

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

Just come across this, which kind of kills the "well if the teachers were trained and had guns in the classroom..." argument stone dead.

 

 

[Breastman]

Just come across this, which kind of kills the "well if the teachers were trained and had guns in the classroom..." argument stone dead.

 

 

None of the soldiers killed were armed at the time and the guns were in the armoury, now try this Ms Marshall-Andrews;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pearl_High_School_shooting

[delburt0]

AFTER READING THIS THREAD I AM SURE ALL OF US HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS ON STATS AND WHAT SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT HAPPEN WITH AMERICAN GUN LAWS,

I HAVE MY OWN OPINIONS BUT WILL KEEP THEM TO MYSELF AS I WOULD HOPE EVERYONE ELSE WOULD,

AS I FIND THE MEDIA AND PEOPLE BANGING ON ABOUT THIS IS ONLY GLORIFYING THE SITUATION.

WHEN MY 9 YR OLD DAUGHTER TOLD ME THAT THOSE KIDS WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO SPEND CHRISTMAS WITH THERE PARENTS , QUOTE ...I BET THEY EVEN HAVE CHRISTMAS PRESENTS STILL UNDER THERE CHRISTMAS TREE AFTER SAYING THIS SHE STARTED CRYING,

SOMETIMES THINGS ARE BETTER LEFT.. :|

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

None of the soldiers killed were armed at the time and the guns were in the armoury, now try this Ms Marshall-Andrews;

 

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting

 

Any army base will have more armed sentries than even the largest university or school campus will ever have armed rent-a-cops, the "all the weapons were in the armoury" is just voodoo, as the shooter here took a number of rounds and is now paralysed.

 

Sorry mate, but what's your point with the Wiki link?

Edited December 18, 2012 by Lock Stock & Barrel