Finding dead deer!?! Any ideas?

[fuffy1]

**dead deer** I have found 4 dead deer in the last month? All within 200yrd of each other. No shot wounds, no accident/impact injures. Healthy looking animals, clear eyes, nose mouth and carrying plenty of weight? Any ideas?????

[shakari]

Poison?

[scotslad]

Is there any Rape fields about? Reckon the can gorge on it and it poisons them, never found a confirmed case off it yet in uk but seemingly common in europe. As another outside guess could they have gorged themselves on grain, a keeper emptying his hoppers and deer hovered up the lot and it has swollen ib there belly. Both the above are pretty unlikely

 

A far more likely candidate could be Liver Fluke, is it paticulary wet ground with sheep on it/nearby? If deer not too stinky go back and open them up and have a look at there liver for damage. A lot off sheep are strugglin with it this year, was speaking to a farmer about it today and he was saying some still look healthy and normal wieght then drop dead with almost no warning, wet weather makes it worse

[pboro shot]

did you gralloch them by anychance would have give you a better insight,i think you should report it if you need number ill get it cheers

[shakari]

If you're finding them all in the same spot it's unlikely they're dying of something like liver fluke or overeating any particular food.

 

It's more probable there's a source (probably) nearby that they're eating or drinking from & then dying quite quickly afterwards.

 

I'd suggest you take a vet to the site & try not to touch anything more than you have to.....because whatever is killing them is killing them quickly & just might be able to do the same to you.

Edited March 9, 2013 by shakari

[stoggieman]

Just thought. Could it be that they have eaten ragwort? I am aware that this can be fatal to some wildlife also yew trees can- will poison most animals if they eat the foliage.

 

Peter

[wickedwickedmotox]

First of what species? have you aged them cut back the mouth and checked tooth eruptions, i would then glove up and carry out a gralloch on the freshest one and check glands etc.

Its hard to ascertain cause of death with out seeing and geusstimates dont help! take pictures? We have seen a high mortality rate in roe kids and does towrards the latter part of the year and we are putting it down to the rain, but the does who have lost kids and been shot have all been carrying twins and plenty of fat.

Be nice to know more!

[wickedwickedmotox]

Just thought. Could it be that they have eaten ragwort? I am aware that this can be fatal to some wildlife also yew trees can- will poison most animals if they eat the foliage.

 

Peter

rag wort has died off this time of year, deer are canny animals and will only eat toxic feed in really desperate times in moderate amounts, if taught well by pearents of course! same applies to oilseed rape.

[mark@mbb]

With all the rain we had last year it could be liver fluke

[shakari]

With all the rain we had last year it could be liver fluke

 

I reckon it's not very likely that four animals should drop dead of liver fluke all within a couple of hundred yards over a four week period..........

[cockercas]

Dont know about ragwort, but if you feed deer hay during bad weather without easing them onto it you can kill them.

There stoumcs cant take the sudden change to hay and they dont have the right bactira to digest it.

They then die of starvation but with a belly full.

Unlikely 4 would die in the same place.

 

Even if there is poison the likely hood of them dying in the same place is unlikely.

[shakari]

 

Even if there is poison the likely hood of them dying in the same place is unlikely.

 

If it's a fast acting poison and in one spot then that's exactly what happens & I can't think of anything else that could cause the deaths of healthy appearing animals in such close proximity.

 

Although one has to wonder why only deer & not also other species.

[mallet]

.17hmr I found a few like this before and struggled to find any entry wound till gralloched one and traced bullet path back to point of entry poachers shooting from road almost drive by style.

[shakari]

I was talking about this to a friend of mine this morning and we wonder if there's a badger sett nearby somewhere?

 

It could be that some idiot has put poison out for badgers and the deer have picked it up........ the badgers may well have made it back to the sett before they croaked.

[scotslad]

While ununuasal to have 4 in a small area, 200m is not that small an area and 4 weeks is a longish time not like they've all droppped dead on the spot at once. Possibly the deaths may not even be related and that is the only warm place of cover probably a natural place for a sick deer to go well feeling unwell ad then die so more coincidence?

Lliver fluke can be quite area specific, and usually the wetter fields so if a roe or even hefted red which aren't moving to much at this time off year and a paticularly badly infected field is the centre off there territory then it could be possible to be fluke. (for those that don't know it sort off lives in the soil as part off it's life cycle, so can be field specific) I found 4 fallow (3 bucks and a doe 2 of them cracking big boys) on a farm last nov within 400m along a small river bank, on the same day (all had died within 3-4 days) no obvious sign off death for bucks but just after rut, the doe was in poor nick and a very wet farm, so put it down to fluke, in times off stress (rut, cold weather, lack off food, calving) earlier damage will be enough to finish them

 

Really hard to say/guess much more with the info given, i would seriously doubt that they have been delibertly/accidently posioned and esp over a 4 week period. Possibly a good idea to look on BDS? site se if it contains an info on deer diseases or questions for ur DSC1 as that covers deer diseases, Prob without gralloching 1 and inspecting organs and lymph nodes it will be hard to say 1 way or other.

[al4x]

It's highly unlikely to be poison there isn't much about that would effectively drop them on the spot. Without opening them up its hard to say but most things that killed them would result in a lack of condition,

[cockercas]

Baisicaly if you want to know then rubber up and skin and gut.

[Redgum]

A mate had a couple of Fallow bucks dead on his pheasant shoot during the shooting season. Found by beaters, didnt look like they had been shot until closer inspection, though one had already been disposed of by the farmer the other had a tiny little entry wound, three guesses to what that could have been eh. Possibly the same could have happened to your deer, if they are out feeding on a certain patch and some wannabe stalker with his 'mighty' hmr has shot em, they would have run along way, rested up and slowly bled to death and could have put them in the same area. Either grollock them, you will soon see if they have been shot if any blood in chest/stomach cavity or report to local authority vetinary, someone on here will have the number for your locality.

[fuffy1]

Opened up two of them, def not shot, not trauma and liver fine. Slight signs of diorrear, and def signs of heart attack (stress induced) Land chalky, hilly and very free draining. Found in the bottom of a valley, with oil seed rape fields both sides and we have been seeing alot of deer on the osr. Also all the rabbits from the same area have disappeared. Was seeing 40-50 in that area a nite while out lapping foxes, last 3 times we have only seen 2 rabbits. A good 60-70% of the farm this yr is osr, so sounding like that is possible cause. Oil seed rape poisioning?

[al4x]

Interesting what does a heart attack look like?

[scotslad]

I just read an article on oil seed rape poisioning somewhere,shooting times i think, i think it said they might have signs of dia... runs and there urine will be a red colour. They did say other symtpoms think blindness was 1, try gooogleing it. I'm sure they said no deer has ever been found in the uk with osr poisioning (but common in europe) and were debating why it is included in dsc1. U might have a uk first on ur hands

 

Usually u cut into the liver to see fluke but if bad enough to kill it it would be visible and plus a free draining area not as likely.

 

Must admit i've no idea wot a heart attack looks like either.

 

Did u have a look at the lymph nodes and kdneys guessing if urine red might affect the kidneys. Possibly phone ur local BDS boy or local pro stalker, it does sound like it could be OSR but someone more exp could prob give u a beter idea

[Redgum]

Interesting what does a heart attack look like?

 

Like this.

[shakari]

It's highly unlikely to be poison there isn't much about that would effectively drop them on the spot. Without opening them up its hard to say but most things that killed them would result in a lack of condition,

 

There's actually several poisons or agricultural chemicals that'll cause them to drop dead in a couple of hundred yards..... they might not be legal but there is several that'll do it...... The reason I know is I've seen a couple of examples of it being used by commercial poachers in Africa........ the busstards tip the stuff into a waterhole and then come along a few hours later and take the tusks & horns....... what makes it even worse is it kills everything that drinks from the water.

[scotslad]

It is still very doubtful that is the case, thankfully cases off illegal poisioning are quite rare now in this country (althou not if u believe the RSPB) and are usually targeted more specifically at meat eaters so very very unlikely deer would be killed. Possibly u use different chemicals over there too, plus water isn't very scarce here so u would need a massive ammount off chemical. There is only 1 chemical i can think off that is put in water but usualy in bird bath's by do gooders and can kill all the neighbours cats

 

Does that still happen in africa or was that a few years ago?

While it depresses me that folk would do that in africa, it's hard to blame them if someone is offering u a shed load of cash and u are leaving in total poverty and struggling to feed ur family, it's the scum that offer the money for ivory etc that should be flogged and hung

[shakari]

Sadly no end of commercial poaching in Africa nowadays, especially for rhino and to a slightly lesser extent, elephant and I'll bet a pound to a pinch of the smelly brown stuff it won't stop anytime soon.

 

Rule .303 has been applied to poachers for decades in many parts of Africa but as you say, there'll always be a queue of poor locals willing to take up an AK or a bottle of something or other and earn enough to feed their families for a year with one night's work........... What needs to happen is for the authorities to catch and severely punish those at the top of the pyramid but that will never, ever happen simply because most of them are in Government and many hold diplomatic immunity.

 

For those that don't understand the term rule .303, it's sometimes known as the triple S rule which stands for shoot, shovel and shut the **** up.