Scully Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Firstly,you have to bear in mind this was a BBC documentary,that bastion of well-known impartiality and unbiased reporting. Secondly,much has been made of the term 'need' in this thread.Let's not forget those on this forum with a genuine 'need' for their guns are in a huge minority.And before people start banging on about shooting being a recognised 'sport' don't forget target shooting with pistols is an Internationally recognised Olympic 'sport',and look what happened to them. All that saved us last time was the fact that the guns used are by and far the most popular guns owned by the shooting fraternity,and therefore a serious number of voters would be affected,not to mention some pretty influential gun owners in pretty influential places,such as many high ranking politicians,Lords and Ladies,and Royalty.But that state of affairs may not last in the face of another attack by the vast majority of non-shooting public whipped into a frenzy by a hostile media when faced with another mass shooting.And before you placate yourself that this wouldn't happen due to the Government not wanting to ban the the 'old school tie' mob from shooting,there are ways and means to introduce legislation which would allow them to continue,but cripple the likes of you and me.Shooting was once the preserve of the rich and titled,there's no reason why it may not become so again. And before we sit at home with our cabinet(in some cases cabinets)full of guns and start criticising the Americans,let's take time to reflect that there are many people in this country who feel the same way about you and your guns,as you feel about the Americans and their guns,so be careful what you wish for. And lastly,don't forget the American Constitution,and in particular the 2nd Amendment,came about from a genuine 'need' at the time,namely to oppose an aggressive, oppressive Goverment. When we were faced with a genuine 'need' by an even more sinister regime in 1939,we were found wanting,and had to go cap in hand. Saying that,I think their attitude towards the lack of mental health screening leaves something to be desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) So leisure activity, no different to someone who wants to own just to own one. Personal defence is a better justification. Be very wary of the "hollier than thou" attitude... im not hollier than thou lol and im sure there are many gun collectors out there that would say collecting guns is a great hobby all im saying is we should remember the ar15 is a semi auto like many hunting riffles not an assault riffle i think magazine capacity may have something to do with it being viewed more harshly than the hunting riffle , as to whether or not such a gun needs to be owned by american home owners im not qualified to say im not american or had experience of living there so i cant say as the cultures so different from ours, sorry if i came across as hollier than thou it was not intended to be. Edited March 12, 2013 by overandunder2012 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breastman Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 With some of the responses on this thread from supposedly pro-shooters its no wonder our massive shooting organisations representing 100's of thousands of people get turned over time and time again by 4, count them FOUR do-gooders with nothing better to do with their time (GCN). A gun that LOOKS menancing is somehow more dangerous?? Putting a gun in a slip at a gun show makes it more safe!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunkield Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 The point is there are shooters and shooters,we aren't all the same, and don't all have the same views - Adam Lanza was a shooter, I don't associate myself with him. Another example that was aired on here was be people who consider themselves to be 'normal' not wanting anything to do with the air soft community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Well off you go and enjoy the increased liklihood of being shot dead. Bye bye Thank you for your constructive comment. If we all lived out lives fearing the worst, we wouldn't amount to much. Careful you don't get hit by a falling piano when you step out to go to work in the morning. A good shooting friend of mine has been working in the States, when some of his American colleagues found out he was a shooter they invited him out with them the following weekend. Not during the day though , they went out for an overnighter, camping and cooking in the desert, plenty of boose consumed and shooting tin cans with high powered rifles without consideration of a backdrop. Needless to say he only went once. You wouldn't associate yourself with someone you deemed to be unfit to be around firearms, and I fail to see the validity of your point with regards my original statement. You can't stereotype all American shooters because of an incident that your mate experienced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pontbeck Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 My point is, if you have very relaxed gun laws you have a greater proportion of shooters who are like the guys my friend shot with. I 've never felt compromised when shooting in the UK, don't know if I'd want to shoot in the States, too many " accidents" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 im not hollier than thou lol and im sure there are many gun collectors out there that would say collecting guns is a great hobby all im saying is we should remember the ar15 is a semi auto like many hunting riffles not an assault riffle i think magazine capacity may have something to do with it being viewed more harshly than the hunting riffle , as to whether or not such a gun needs to be owned by american home owners im not qualified to say im not american or had experience of living there so i cant say as the cultures so different from ours, sorry if i came across as hollier than thou it was not intended to be. I agree i wasnt referring to you being hollier than thou but others who say there is "no reason to own an AR15......" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livefast123 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Americans are blessed with the 2nd amendment, if I was American I would defend it till they squeezed the last breath from my body. For all those that lambast the AR15 / Black gun owners, your guns are equally easy to take and thats the way it will go if shooters don't stand together, instead of taking the "I'm alright Jack" approach. Edited March 12, 2013 by Livefast123 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Some interesting info: http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/ad-lib/2013/mar/11/gun-debate10-important-facts-know-about-guns/ 34% own guns, 5% hunt................ Gun ownership in the US isnt about "hunting" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IXI KARL IXI Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would like some of the American gun laws to make it over here. I would love a pistol to shoot but can't here which is a shame. Some of the hunting law they have is good as well. The government should have thought of instead of trying to sell off some woodland and Moore land, they should have issued hunting licences to make a long term cash flow. Just a thought I had. Some of the American laws are a bit crazy in regards to buying guns. But like everything we see on TV take it with a pinch of salt. I remember watch bowling for columbine, when Michael Moore walked out of a bank with a gun for opening a account. It looked really bad. But what wasn't shown was he had to call the bank the day before to get gun at the bank and insisted it was there for him to pick up. It was also registered in his name before the pick up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overandunder2012 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I agree i wasnt referring to you being hollier than thou but others who say there is "no reason to own an AR15......" ok thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 The other point was people with obvious mental instability can still get their hands on them. They can't though (not from a dealer at any rate) because it's illegal to sell them one if you know about it. The background check that is done flags whether anyone was known to have a mental disorder. True enough that someone who's mental disorder wan't known could get one but they could anywhere that allows civilians to own any type of firearm, including here. The Americans need to be putting more resources into their public mental heath treatment programs but they seem to have an aversion to the state looking after the vulnerable, for some bizzare reason. I get the impression that they're all terrified that a national health type system is some huge communist plot, or something. The very obvious thing that has come out from all this, and other shootings in the US, is that there should be some form of legal responsibilty as to why you allow to access your guns. The mother of Adam Lanza knew that he was seriously troubled yet allowed him access to firearms. Of course that's easy to say but I don't know how you go about enforcing it. J. There are those who say anyone who wants to own one is mentally deficient !!! But no one with any measurable level of intelligence would believe them. J. indeed the medical examiner claimes the "long gun" was used but from other accounts it was in the boot of the car I think I'd go with the medical examiner on this one. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I watched the programme and it was an eye opener to me. Yes I can see the point that their second amendment gives folk the right to arms etc, and the Americans to take it to the n'th degree, but what I was shocked at, was the ease the reporter was able to purchase such a gun, with very limited control or checks. What would be so wrong if America had gun laws similar to ours, with either club membership or land for FAC guns? She wasn't able to 'purchase' the gun that easily. She got it from a dealer so was subject to a state and federal background check. It's actually pretty much the same checks as a cert holder gets here - just quicker. To be honest, I think that a Federal offence might have been committed. She clearly said at the end of the show that she had 'bought' it. However, I think I recall that the covertly filmed piece they showed was of a man purchasing the gun. It is ilegal to purchase a gun on behalf of someone else in the US. Obviously for the reason that it needs to be the actual purchaser who is having the background check done on them. So, it was either illegal or the BBC lied to us - shock horror! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Culture is what it comes down to. We can't be compared to other industrialized nations when it comes to gun ownership because there are no others like us. We're the only Western nation where gun ownership is a right. Americans equate widespread gun ownership with personal freedom, liberty, and independence from the government. We fought for our independence largely with private weapons at the start of the war. The first battle of the American Revolutionary War, the Battle of Lexington and Concord, started because British troops were trying to confiscate peoples' guns. We feel that if they can take away guns, they can take away our other rights, too. As you say - this is what it boils down to and is what most of the rest of the world cannot comprehend. The real problem is that many people elsewhere (especially most of the media and specifically the BBC) simply do not want to comprehend it. J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonathanL Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Firstly,you have to bear in mind this was a BBC documentary,that bastion of well-known impartiality and unbiased reporting. Secondly,much has been made of the term 'need' in this thread.Let's not forget those on this forum with a genuine 'need' for their guns are in a huge minority.And before people start banging on about shooting being a recognised 'sport' don't forget target shooting with pistols is an Internationally recognised Olympic 'sport',and look what happened to them. All that saved us last time was the fact that the guns used are by and far the most popular guns owned by the shooting fraternity,and therefore a serious number of voters would be affected,not to mention some pretty influential gun owners in pretty influential places,such as many high ranking politicians,Lords and Ladies,and Royalty.But that state of affairs may not last in the face of another attack by the vast majority of non-shooting public whipped into a frenzy by a hostile media when faced with another mass shooting.And before you placate yourself that this wouldn't happen due to the Government not wanting to ban the the 'old school tie' mob from shooting,there are ways and means to introduce legislation which would allow them to continue,but cripple the likes of you and me.Shooting was once the preserve of the rich and titled,there's no reason why it may not become so again. And before we sit at home with our cabinet(in some cases cabinets)full of guns and start criticising the Americans,let's take time to reflect that there are many people in this country who feel the same way about you and your guns,as you feel about the Americans and their guns,so be careful what you wish for. And lastly,don't forget the American Constitution,and in particular the 2nd Amendment,came about from a genuine 'need' at the time,namely to oppose an aggressive, oppressive Goverment. When we were faced with a genuine 'need' by an even more sinister regime in 1939,we were found wanting,and had to go cap in hand. Saying that,I think their attitude towards the lack of mental health screening leaves something to be desired. Absolutely and perfectly spot-on! J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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