Mr pigeon Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Hi people, I have a shoot meeting coming up and was just wondering if people out there had any ideas of how to get extra income into our shoot. We paid £565 last season (7 guns) and 2 non paying guns, farmer and his brother. They don't pay as we have no rent and they put cover crops in. With our subscription we built two pens, 30m x 40m and 75m x 40m. Bought 600 ex layers and feed feeders etc. This year we would like to add another pen 30m x 40m and buy poults approx 800. Obviously we are not going to have enough money to cover it so I was wondering if there was any ideas that we could incorporate that would help with costs. We don't really want to pay more ideally. But are open to suggestions. Would appreciate people's ideas, cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackbart Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Walk up days near end of season ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 How often do you shoot ? would it be possible to sell a day to a different team of guns ? . you could soon fill seven places on here I would imagine depending on bag v price. Are there pigeon shooting opportunity's on the land the farmer would let you sell to raise funds for the shoot ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 We are planning 7 days shooting. So fortnightly, starting mid late October. No pigeon shooting really to speak of either. How much are sold days and what do people expect for there money? Cheers, for the input. We are planning 7 days shooting. So fortnightly, starting mid late October. No pigeon shooting really to speak of either. How much are sold days and what do people expect for there money? Cheers, for the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 I would say , if its a fully driven day with around a 50 bird bag or so somewhere around £120 a gun would not be too far away from what to expect . A bit less if its walk and stand , but I am guessing if you only have 7 guns its driven ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Yes it is mini driven. We have the nine guns in total. Is the 50 bird day from putting down 600 or 800 birds? Cheers fen boy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Yes it is mini driven. We have the nine guns in total. Is the 50 bird day from putting down 600 or 800 birds? Cheers fen boy. I have no idea , I do very little driven shooting , I was just giving a example , have you put birds down before ? if so what size were you normal bags last year . If you put down 800 and manage to shoot 30% over your seven shoots that would give a average bag of 42 plus any resident birds. From what I hear 25-40% of birds shot v birds released is about right on average. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDAV Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Its the farmers land not sure what else you could do, do you sell the shot birds to a dealer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianbuilders Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 If you can find fully driven shooting for 7 guns @ £120 for 50 birds sign me up! Syndicate shooting cost more than that, that would need to be for 10 guns to cover the costs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 A shoot near me sells off 50 bird days as a fund raiser. 9 guns each pay £110 each. The syndicate members do the beating and provide the food & drink out of their own pocket to ensure the guns have a fantastic day and are queuing up to come back. If you put down £200 worth of ex-layers to cover the extra birds you still have nearly £800 leftover to add to your budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fenboy Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) If you can find fully driven shooting for 7 guns @ £120 for 50 birds sign me up! Syndicate shooting cost more than that, that would need to be for 10 guns to cover the costs. There were days sold for that price on here last season , that's why I suggested that price , of course he may get more , but with more money comes more expectation. I too would be interested at that price , depending on your location. Edited March 12, 2013 by fenboy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) So are you saying 10 guns would need to pay £120 each for a 50 day? We average 27 birds a day, out of 600 ex layers out down first week in June. But putting down 800 poults should make early season 50 bird day achievable ? Edited March 12, 2013 by Mr pigeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 If you are going to sell a 50 bird day you need to be very confident that it can be achieved, you will need to put enough birds over the guns to give them about 150 shots for an average team. I would say that your budget isn't high enough for the amount of birds you want to put down. You will have income of £3,955 from you 7 paying guns, and the 800 poults will cost £2,720 (at £3.40 each). This leaves £1,235, which will cover the feed pellets that they will need for the first few weeks, but won't buy enough wheat to get you to through to spring, plus there is also the cost of the new pen, medication, feeders, drinkers and all the other bits and pieces that all cost money. If you dont want to pay more in subs, how about just buying less poults, get your new pen built, then increase the amount of birds that you release the following season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianbuilders Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 If you give them there 50+ throw in a bit of elevenses you should be ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorianbuilders Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Sounds good sense Colin, I'd say there's a shortfall of just over a grand not including anything unforeseen like vets bills etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Just wanted to say, this is a good post? I am sat with pen & paper taking notes We have a few shooters on the Fens who want our own shoot. It is very early days of a five year plan, but we would love to offer affordable days shooting on here for PW Members. Wish you well Mr Pigeon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pg123 Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Do you have a pond on the shoot? A lot of shoots add in a few duck because of the better return and cheaper feed bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 (edited) Yes we have a pond about an acre and about a mile of river. The short fall did not include selling a day ... I think the suggestion maybe to put down duck but if so that would have to be factored in. Do they give a better return generally? I know it's all ifs and buts but how about a 30 bird day? Is that possible/ a done thing? Edited March 12, 2013 by Mr pigeon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 12, 2013 Report Share Posted March 12, 2013 Just wanted to say, this is a good post? I am sat with pen & paper taking notes We have a few shooters on the Fens who want our own shoot. It is very early days of a five year plan, but we would love to offer affordable days shooting on here for PW Members. Wish you well Mr Pigeon. Running a shoot for a syndicate is one thing, but selling days is very different. All shoots have good and bad days, which are usually down to things completely out of your control, but this doesn't matter so much in a syndicate as it's usually broadly the same team of guns who will have good days, where the bag is higher than average and not so good days when the bag is lower than expected. In my experience, most syndicate guns understand this and as long as the organisers have done what they were suposed to with feeding etc, accept that these things happen on a small shoot. On the other hand, if you have sold a 50 bird day to a team of guns, they want to come and shoot 50 ish birds on that day. If that happens to be the day that its snowing, raining or the winds in the wrong direction, or a dog walker, fox, deer, or the local hunt have just been through your best drive, that's your problem, not theirs. So if you want to sell days, you need to have enough birds and drives for a "plan B". If you only have 5 drives, and once you have done them, have 30 birds in the bag, you will probably have an unhappy team of guns and refunds will have to be made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 OK Call me mad, we would like to offer Pheasant shooting days to PW Members for £25.00 per day. Most shooters have never had a day on a shoot; I have had many days beating on large estates but never been on a shoot. The men involved all work hard & take shooting very seriously, and would like nothing better than to share a great day with some friends. If you put the work in anything is possible, shooting should not be for the few who can afford it.....but it is. Thats why I wished OP well, how often is this talked about on this forum.....not often enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinF Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 OK Call me mad, we would like to offer Pheasant shooting days to PW Members for £25.00 per day. Most shooters have never had a day on a shoot; I have had many days beating on large estates but never been on a shoot. The men involved all work hard & take shooting very seriously, and would like nothing better than to share a great day with some friends. If you put the work in anything is possible, shooting should not be for the few who can afford it.....but it is. Thats why I wished OP well, how often is this talked about on this forum.....not often enough! I admire what you are trying to do, but it just can't work at £25 per day! The cost of the poults, pellets, wheat, rent, covercrop etc etc mean that if the gun is not paying, someone else will be. Unless you are going to be getting some of these things for free the actual cost of a bird shot will be at least £25-£30, even if you do all the work yourselves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 Purely to raise money sell access to your outlying areas for dog handlers to train their dogs on game. Many, many people want to get their hunting dogs into game but have no way to do it, they will pay for the privilege and don't want to shoot. You WILL have to vet who is going unless they are accompanied by syndicate members. Early in the season they can dog in for you, might not be perfect but better than nothing. And later in the season people will pay to have their dogs shot over, your own members can do that each taking their turn and so getting some shooting on a walk up whilst shooting your own birds and being paid for it. I do think you need to look at your number for rearing poults though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Ghost Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 I admire what you are trying to do, but it just can't work at £25 per day! The cost of the poults, pellets, wheat, rent, covercrop etc etc mean that if the gun is not paying, someone else will be. Unless you are going to be getting some of these things for free the actual cost of a bird shot will be at least £25-£30, even if you do all the work yourselves Others will see what we are trying to do Colin, we are fully aware of the costs to us.Sometimes in life it's nice to be nice and offer a great days shooting someone will talk about for the rest of their lives. To be apart of that is priceless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr pigeon Posted March 13, 2013 Author Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 What do u mean by look at poult numbers WDG? Sorry if its a daft question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted March 13, 2013 Report Share Posted March 13, 2013 (edited) Sorry I haven't studied your figures but 800 poults take a lot more work and money than 600 ex layers. Pellets are what, about £400 a ton now, Flubenvet pellets to prevent disease are (?) more expensive again and with wheat at £200 a ton (budget a ton at least per hundred birds to let you keep feeding into spring) and I don't think you can cover your costs with your current income. Edited March 13, 2013 by WGD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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